From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.
You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com. I'm John Gallagher. My guest today is Margi Flint. Margi practices herbalism in the sea coast town of Marblehead, Massachusetts, and over the last thirty years has become their village herbalist. She's an adjunct professor at North Shore Community College, the Tufts University School of Medicine, and the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy.
Margi is author of the textbook, The Practicing Herbalist, meeting with clients, reading the body. She also lectures internationally. You can visit Margie at earth song herbals dot com, where you can check out her book and see what classes she's currently offering. Margie, welcome.
Well, it's nice to be here. I have more schools I'm affiliated with now.
Oh, please.
Which which which which which which Well, there's Pacific Rim College in British Columbia, so I get to travel out to that beautiful watery place with temperatures that are so delightful.
Nice.
And Bastyr University.
Oh, well, when you come to Bastyr, well, you have to send me an email, give me a ring because that's in my backyard.
Oh, cool. I'll be there in the fall.
Oh, excellent. We can hang out. Fun. Yeah. We'll have you over for dinner.
Okay. Cool. Yeah.
We'll have a home.
To eat.
Have a home cooked. We'll get you some local salmon. It'll be great.
Nice.
Yes. That'd be wonderful.
So we have some herb mentor dot com quest member questions to get to in a bit. But, you know, Margie, the first time I have, Herbalist on the show here, I'd like to hear your story. Like, how did you get started learning about herbs and using herbs?
I got started back in seventy four when I was diagnosed with a potential tumor of the pituitary and told that if I had that I would live about a year and a half, which is not a pleasant thing for a young girl to hear.
Wow.
And so I began a journey and the journey included herbs and many other forms of, you know the path the road to healing. And herbs was the thing that just kept filling my life day by day more and more and more.
You know, so self healing first and then people knocking at the door and then they wouldn't go away even if I told them I wasn't qualified.
And then you know going to herb conferences and meeting fabulous teachers like Rosemarie Gladstar and David Winston were my two first main teachers.
And then, David Winston, Matthew Wood, William LeSassier and the list goes on and on. My most recent teacher who just left here this weekend was William Morris, who's an amazing pulse and tongue teacher.
Oh, wow.
And but he is a master. I mean, Matthew would, you know, reveres him. He's gonna show up in December when William shows up again to teach here on the East Coast. So you know the quest for knowledge never ends.
But I will say that in that first conference that I went to, you know, there were only sixty of us there including the teachers and all the cooks.
And it was as though I had met my tribe. You know, it was like they were my people.
And I remember that that full heart feeling where your your eyes, the tears spill out of your eyes and your heart opens and you know, I'm home.
Wow.
So I know exactly how you say it.
Are incredible.
And now you go to conferences and teach at them, and there's friends and get paid.
Wow.
What a great job. You know, it's it's interesting, you know, that that, it seems like there are two main tracks of all the people. I don't know fifty, sixty interviews I've done at this point. It's either people were, really into nature when they were kids or exposed, you know, into plants because they or they had a incident like yours in your life where you became ill and you helped heal yourself and and and then you took it from there.
So those are kinda like I I don't wanna say it's those though.
As a kid, you know, my mom said, oh, Margie, you were always putting things in people's mouth and telling them what to do.
That's fantastic.
You just couldn't help yourself.
That's awesome. And and so now after all these years, you're focused on, mentoring herbalist to practice. So now you've gone through this process of how many you know, a few decades of of of of knowledge gathering.
So what brought that about? Like, at one point, was it did you have that realization where, like, wow, it's my path to to teach others?
Well, it was, a woman called, who said she had started her practice at the same time I did, but hers never came went off the ground.
And she just wanted to follow me around to see what I did that was different, and then she'd pay me. And I thought, what a great idea.
Wow.
So I didn't really think it up myself. Somebody else did.
And, so she started coming and then a couple of years later, they had the mentor program at the guild.
And I'm a member professional member of the American Herbalist Guild. So I thought, well, I don't wanna spend all this time on the phone with people. And so I'll I'll have them all come at the same day.
And that way, they can all pay me, and everyone gets experience and hands on do, you know, clinical intake themselves.
And I'll just be there as a supervisor and give them feedback and, be efficient with my time.
So there's a couple of elements here going on. You're you're you're you're training others as practitioners, but you're also, seeing, clients.
And and do you you do that do you have, like, a a practice out of your your home or or Oh, yeah.
That just the way I have it set up, everyone has a different way. For me, what works best is to roll out of bed, go for get out of the house, go for a walk, cup of coffee, it has to be really good organic espresso.
Nice.
And then we can go for that when I come out to visit.
And then, my office and consultation room, teaching room, library, and preparation room are all on the first floor of my house.
So I have a a three story house where the first floor is all business.
And it's a, you know I'm very fortunate that I have this kind of space and I can't actually imagine having an office out side of my home because I'm so dependent on my, my herb closet Uh-huh.
Really just for daily life.
And, and I was fortunate also to have a carpenter who had a really good organizational brain.
And he helped to, organize the space with beautiful shelves and an herb closet. He did have a problem putting a big closet in the middle of this gorgeous space, but it works and it's beautiful and it's it's so helpful to be organized. Some people have spaces outside their home, but I don't wanna pay somebody else rent when I can pay myself.
I'm I'm with you. Like, my my commute my traffic for my commute is if my daughter's tying her shoes on the stairs on the way down to my office. You know, it's like, oh, gosh. I have to wait in traffic.
Delay.
I have a delay.
She's getting to work.
And I I really love your book, and, I got picked up a copy at the traditions Western Herbalism Conference. I have an autographed copy.
Oh, well, lucky you.
Yeah. You signed it.
I had someone else autograph it for me now.
And, I really love how, you really get into the nitty gritty of all those questions that you Mhmm. That people would would want and would have, you know, even the most mundane things that you you wouldn't think of, people don't need to know that. I mean, you're down to, like, setting up your library accounting.
Organizing a desk area, your herb closet, and, booking appointments, all these kinds of things. Yeah.
You know, I think probably the the biggest question that people listening because I I I know people probably get really excited when they probably meet you and hear about what you do, and they're like, yeah. I wanna do that.
What you know, obviously, you know, one knows if they want to be an herbalist of your caliber, they're they're they have to the various trainings and and whatnot that they have to do. But when they get go that line across the line and wanting us to see, clients, like, what are the hurdles? Like, what are the big things? Because people are like, wait. This is this legal or, you know, this kind of thing. Like like, how what are the main things they have to look out for? And I imagine your book answers most of those questions.
But It does. It does answer those questions, but we can cover some of it.
First of all, I'm not afraid.
So I don't live in fear. If you can teach herbal medicine at Tufts Medical School, you can practice herbal medicine down the street. So, and herbs are the common man's medicine. I firmly believe that everyone has the basic human right to walk outside, grow their own herbs, find them in the fields, gather consciously, make prayer, you know, live in a good way and consume herbs. So for me, this is as ordinary as being a mother.
You know, I take care of my community, my family, my plot of land that I have.
Actually, I take care of quite a bit of land in the town that may not be quite so publicly known.
How did those plants that were supposed to be here come back?
Gorilla wild gorilla wildcraft gardening.
It's not really wildcrafting.
It's a little bit planting.
And gorilla gardening. That'd be a good book title, Girl of Gardening, like the, the herbalist guide to repopulating.
Oh, So let's see.
I lost my train of thought there. That was fun. I was starting to write that book.
So let's see. And then, the practice just grows and evolves naturally. Mhmm. You know, people people when they hear when you are in touch with the plants and understand that the plants are our ancestors and the plants will bring health and vitality and you know, knowing their energetics and compare in comparing them to the energetics of the person who is coming to you that people just show up at your door and they won't go away. Mhmm. You know, it's I don't advertise.
It it's just word-of-mouth.
Mhmm.
And, you know, people are your best advertisements.
But that have come to you and gotten better and people say, oh my god. Look at them. Look at the light in their eyes. They're back. You know, they're healthy again.
And and then the herbs send their message out and and we get busy.
You know, I I, it's so if it's your calling, what you're saying, it's like and if it's if you know it's your calling, you just gotta go do it and not come from that place of fear and then use the tools available to you out there in the world. Right?
That's right.
Tools and books like yours and put it all together.
Yeah.
Because we do need many more people out there doing what you're doing and that's how it affects that.
Of herbalists.
Yes.
I mean, there is you know, people people would say, you know, oh, are you afraid of another herbalist moving into town? It's like, oh, there are twenty thousand people here.
And, you know, and this isn't just that I see people in Marblehead, people come from everywhere. But, you know, there's no lack of people in the universe. And there's a great need for qualified herbalists.
And, you know, one of the teachers I just had here who you should interview is, Nicole Telk.
Oh, yes. I know Nicole.
She oh, she is great.
Yes. Oh my god. What a great school she has.
Down in, Texas. Right?
Yeah. In Austin. Yeah. That's the homeland of my mother.
Oh.
Yeah. Got a little Texas blood in there.
So that's that's great.
Yeah.
Alright. So let's see.
What I think I would like to get into now is a bit about, something that you really specialize. I mean, so much so that, like, after you get through the first part of your the book, the second part is all about, observing, and and diagnosis and and all. So, and there aren't too many people out there able really to teach this. And, and and and I I I know from feedback I get are people, once they really get to a certain point of learning, they get hit a certain point of frustration that they're like, hi. I gotta, you know, how how, you know, how do I know what herbs to give on a more detailed level? It's one thing for some first aid or whatnot, but it's another if you're gonna go deeper. So, how I know it's a major topic area, but how would you start to talk about how you, diagnose, folks?
Okay. Well, my book is really based on the the the visual diagnosed diagnostics of the face, the nails, and the tongue are were taught to me by William LeSasseur who was passed on.
And his understanding of the lines and the colors and you know the meaning of each each line and which organ it goes to has been such an incredible valuable diagnostic tool.
Excuse me. Because the you know a person can be sitting in front of you and if you see three indications of liver imbalance right on their face and as they're speaking you're watching their tongue and then at the end of the consultation, you you actually have them put their tongue out and closely study their lines and and their nails.
It's such good confirmation for what you've heard during the consultation. The comparison between listening, intuiting and reading the body really confirms your choices. And then if you want to go a step further, you can do drop, you know, drop testing where you drop the herbs right onto the pulse or onto the tongue and and then listen to the pulse to hear the reaction.
And William Morris is the master of teaching that.
So, you know, that's I'm in I'm I'm in school again.
I have a new teacher this year, so, you know, it's exciting for me. So his name will keep cropping up. But but, can you know, finding a way to to really, get yeses. Yes, it is the liver. Yes, it is the kidneys. Yes, it is the energy of the kidneys affecting the heart.
And knowing how to read those diagnostics just by simply looking at the nose or the tongue or whatever.
It's just so it's like a monarch version to diagnosis.
So so so you're it's almost as if you're, picking up, trying to pick up on several clues from a person and and and getting as many of them to kind of line up to back, a possible story in which you can progress in the treatment?
Exactly. K. Yeah.
Okay. So let's see an example because, like, I'm looking at you, in your book and and you have a visual observations, but then I always get a little, confused.
I I'll tell you why. Like, in acupuncture, when I trained in that, I learned a specific system. I do the five element Worsley style. Right? Mhmm. And, and yet, in when I have heard several, herbalists talk about the like, what we're talking about, it seems as if, they're they're putting together, you know, but a a lot of clues from from different traditions to build the case. And is that in your case?
Because I see, like, the, constitutional body types, like the VODA, PICA, Kapha, but then I also see things that seem to be reminiscent of, like, Chinese medicine and everything.
So how do you put all that together and, like, you know, to figure out?
Well, I'd say I'm I'm an American. You know, I'm a mongrel practitioner.
So I've studied Ayurveda and I've studied a little TCM and I've you know had my main teachers who also have a lot of native American background as their foundation.
So I am a one girl. I take a little bit anything that resonates for me. I love the doses of Ayurveda just because that's what teaches me compliance.
I know that if they're Vata, that they're going to be irregular and you have to have them put it on their cell phone to take anything. Otherwise, they'll never remember. And if they're coughing, it'll have to taste good and appeal to their gastric juices.
And if they're pitta, I'll just have to explain to them every flipping thing with scientific research behind it before they'll do anything, I So Sounds like a metal sounds like a metal element in Chinese science.
So they're, you know, each each it's a big world out there and there's so much to learn from every single avenue and, you know, like I just learned new tricks over this past weekend for how to formulate.
And it's, you know, there's so much to learn, and I'm not, you know, I don't want to ever stop learning. Mhmm. And I, you know, if you have the second edition of my book and a lot of that changed when I from the first edition.
You know some of the indications that I really haven't seen over time I've taken out and then I've added in some new ones and the third edition I'm going to start working on probably this winter.
And there are even more things I've learned.
So you know learning is not stagnant and certainly human beings are fascinating studies.
And learning new lines, new ways to see people and new ways to figure out the amazing jigsaw puzzle of health, You know, it's wonderful and never boring and, you know, this will be the book that never ends.
That's what what a what a great career here. You just keep, updating your book, but but, you know, and then twenty years from now, it's gonna be, like, it's gonna be really thick.
Oh, really, really thick. Yeah. I have other books in my mind, but I haven't gotten them onto paper.
I'm pretty sure.
So yeah. Like, I when I, yeah, I I just the the whole, thing about, when you're when you're sick because because when you see someone for chronic illness reason, it's, you know, you and I can have say we have both have to get migraines. Of course, we're gonna have them for completely different reasons Mhmm. And the approach will be different. And, how much of of of what you find in your doing the body observing, kinda reaches a a cons like, are you looking for a constitutional type of things that you can really go to the source of the of the person's issues?
I'm always trying to go to the source. And and, one of the thoughts that I really believe in is you go to the original insult. You know, go through I use a thing called the timeline, which goes from birth until the current day. And and I put on to that timeline their entire history.
Wow.
So every emotional so any kind of abuse, physical, sexual, ritual, emotional, verbal abuse all goes on there. Accidents, you know, falling off horses, car accidents, whatever.
Major traumas if, you know, they observed something frightening, had a fire, something like that. Surgeries and major life changes, death, divorce, moving.
All those things go on to the timeline And then you get a big round picture and the person is the one who really received it. They look at it and they go, oh my God, look at this.
In this three year period, this, this, and this happened, and I never put that together. Of course, that explains why I got an ulcer.
Or no wonder, you know, my no wonder I got constipated.
So, you know that timeline is a really valuable tool for looking at the history of a person and understanding what is affecting them and what is their constitution to begin with. I mean, when you read the tongue, you definitely can figure out post.
Definitely get confirmation.
And then William had a whole thing on the shape of the face and and the, equidistant parts of it, which has not been published in my book because the archive, wants to publish that themselves. So that's something I teach but I don't have in the book.
So, you know, there's a lot to learn. A lot of tricks out there.
I I always find that I get the I get the best diagnostic information when someone doesn't think I'm observing them. Absolutely. I I I love, I get a lot from the voice mails that people leave or or or watching them walk from their car to the door. Because soon as they walk in the door, they they change. They go into, I'm in the doctor's office.
Yeah. Really? Now I can say all the right things.
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. It's like, somebody asked, what are you, you, are you going to send me your intake form? Absolutely not. You cannot see my intake form. I mean, my intake form is really in sort of what my kids call Margie talk.
It's it's very cryptic. And I know what the whole sentence is, but it's not really on paper that way.
Right.
Because I ask the questions to my clients. And I wanna see their body language in response to the question because they may say yes and their body may say no.
Mhmm.
And then I can go deeper.
You know, then I can ask the ten questions that follow that. Right.
Because the the mind is very interesting.
And I don't ask all of my, all of my mental questions. I sort of have interspersed throughout the intake. I don't like to keep everything in order because people will realize oh, she's asking all questions about my heart or or, you know and I would rather just slip the question in in a little bit of a tricky way so they don't know it's coming.
That's awesome.
It's a year, you know, years of being, a psychology major.
Oh, it's it's brilliant.
I mean, what what you just a this is just a tip of the iceberg, I'm sure, for you, and I and I and I'm really resonating with what you're saying. It's very similar similar with a lot of other tricks I'm hearing, from the way we were taught to because it's a, you know, when you're trying to get to some kind of, you know, body, mind, spirit, constitutional place.
So so some peep so folks listening, they're like, okay. I've learned some about herbs. I like I like to start, learning about observing, whether it be pulse taking or tongue diagnosis.
Which which, I mean, in your many chapters of the book, as you as you're getting from this interview, there are many layers that you've learned over the years of types of diagnosis. What what is a good place, area to start? Like, if someone's, I like to start in this world. Should should they look into concept, like, are you beta body touch or should they look for a class on tongue or pulse or something that, you know, one of your classes you teach or how would that work?
Well, I mean, there are a lot of great teachers out there. So my favorite teachers for learning facial tongue or pulse diagnosis, I just had class with William Morris, so he's in Austin, Texas.
Mhmm.
So he teaches pulse and tongue, but during this class, I learned tons of other things. So I would recommend him. He's my latest fun teacher. Mhmm. David Winston is also a great teacher.
Oh, yes.
And he studied also with William and has his own unique view of things as well. Matthew Wood is brilliant and lots of fun to study with.
Oops. Between those folks and and and you, I'm hearing that there are folks all over the country. There's nothing out here in the northwest, and you've got, teaching and you're on the east coast. And and so yeah.
Yeah. There are. There are good teachers. Well, that's a handful anyway.
Because because it seems like, like, yes, you know, your book is a great guide and everything, but, having learned, in our in our in our, in the five in five element, we don't learn the tongue. We don't need because we we don't need to in that, but we have other things that we learn. But still, it's it's sensory awareness and and it's hard to imagine than doing that through just a book. You know, it seems like you really do need a component of a live person giving you feedback. Yeah?
I am a huge believer in having clinic.
Yes.
You know, I have a clinic here once a month where or sometimes for a week at a time if somebody wants to come and, you know flies in from Seattle and wants to study with me then they sign up for five days or four days whatever they want.
But then they get hands on every day with clients doing the intake, asking questions, looking at the face, nails time.
You know that's the best way to learn. I mean that's why they call us practicing herbalists.
You know you practice by doing.
Hey, but you And the more tongues you look at, the more you learn.
Right. So, you know, it's a very practical thing.
And I wish more people had clinics available. I mean the way mine works is one practitioner who's qualified will be doing the intake and the other people have to be quiet and listen.
But you're learning. This is a fabulous way to learn. When I learned from Matthew, I literally planted myself at his knees and would hold the pulse on the other side of the person and mimic everything he did, I did. And that was the way I learned.
And that's I found that that's the way that I like to teach too.
I think it's practical. I think most herbalists are very tactile.
You know, we need to taste things, touch things, you know, sit with the plant, be where it would normally be, you know Right.
Right.
Or multidimensional.
Yeah. I I, in our school, I remember having to just they just didn't even really tell us what we were, you know, sense sensing in the pulses yet, but they wouldn't even my teacher wouldn't even tell me until I had a notebook full of two thousand pulses that I'd taken, and I'd had to go to coffee houses. I'd go anywhere. Can I take your pulse? Can I take your pulse? Can I and we'd write the keep a little notebook? And then by the time he was ready to tell us what the heck we were feeling, we had two thousand pulses.
Cool.
He was really helpful.
And, yeah. And and everyone you go up to in the, you know, in the street or you meet or or you're at, just look at the color of their faces. So, like, you can be observing everywhere you go Yeah. When you're when you're learning.
It doesn't just happen in the clinic. And then so that that's great. I I'm really encouraged to hear that you're on that clinic and people can come and everything because that's a that's a great, great thing. And I guess people doing AHT type of professional certification can hook up could get hours that way.
Oh, yeah. Definitely get hours. Yep. I'm definitely a mentor.
Excellent. Great. Okay. Well, let's get to some questions.
The first question here is is kind of related to what we've been talking about. Sue asks, I'm curious, I'm curious how much of a role in intuition plays in determining health concerns and working with a client and how you incorporate emotional or mental intake of clients.
A little bit what we've just been talking about, but maybe Okay.
Couple of thoughts I have there. One is, one of the things that is most important is to keep your own process separate from the clients. For instance, the client comes in, they burst into tears. You know, some people might, immediately become very empathic and come over and pat them or give them Kleenex or whatever. I leave Kleenex on the table, but I learned from Karen Sanders, another great teacher of mine, that you need to be neutral.
And the person needs to process their own stuff.
So if I become emotionally involved in somebody else's stuff, And really their emphasis comes off themselves and goes to trying to make you feel better because now you're sitting there like a little puddle. So, having a professional protection, I guess you'd call it or a neutral wall that keeps you sitting in front of the client as an herbal practitioner who is listening to their story so that it remains their story. Now on the other the next point is intuition. How much does intuition pay play? Well oftentimes a client walks through the door I look at them and I see a plant And the plant is plastered onto their forehead.
So, you know, you know, everybody has a different way of reading things. When I hear an herb three times in my head, I write it down.
Sometimes I don't understand why it's there, and sometimes I do. But I always if I hear it three times, I know there's a reason that herb is present.
And my overall belief is that all of us are connected.
All of our spirits are connected and not just the humans but to all life.
So, you know, I already have a connection with my client before they arrive.
And, and I don't mind being intuitive.
You know, if if I'm tired at the end of a consultation, I'll dial it out, you know, with a little pendulum, you know, how much how many drops to do something.
Wow.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not much into my ego.
You know, if if I don't care that I don't know everything and, I don't mind being wrong in occasion as long as they don't die. I haven't had a lot of clients die. That's good.
You haven't had a lot.
Unless they came already in fourth stage, you know. Right. It's like it wasn't about me.
Well, eventually, they're all going to.
Yeah. We all do eventually, don't we?
So Monica, I was curious about, so she's beginning to take clients and she was curious about what the session looks like. Do you do you do you get intake forms beforehand? Do you make up the remedies while they're there and or have them pick them up later? Or do you have a separate office?
We we know about the office already. Yeah. And, okay. So go ahead with that.
So, I always ask the questions myself.
I have the intake questions printed out, and then I run off of that. But I don't always ask all the questions either. I might focus on, an acute issue that is appearing that day and a general, you know, which organ systems might relate to that and save other segments for the follow-up visit.
I do work in my home.
And as far as making up formulas, most times, I make the formula during the time the client is here because I allot two hours Mhmm. For consultation.
So an hour and a half to do the actual questioning and a half hour to put things together.
So unless they need a cream or a salve or something like that, then they'll have to come back for that.
But I prefer to get it done and, Okay.
Complete it.
And, at what point she's and she is struggling with what point to refer out in relation to that was Mhmm. Working with someone who might be taking a lot of pharmaceuticals, and she was, like, kind of uncomfortable with all that sort of the doctor interaction and referring out and all that.
Okay.
If somebody is taking a lot of pharmaceuticals, pharmaceuticals and to write down, the contents of their vitamins.
You know, if they're taking a multivitamin, I don't want to know Vitamin A, I want to know the source of the Vitamin A, which is a great assignment to give clients because then they realize this massive list of things that they're taking.
And, and then I'll have them in addition bring the actual bottles in and then we can put them either into the okay pile or the trash can.
Trash is popular.
So let's see.
Where for you asked me the question.
Oh, it was just around, you know, just knowing maybe knowing when to refer out?
Oh, when to refer out. I refer out a lot. I have, a list of doctors that I work with and trust that if I think they need blood work or some kind of a scan or a test or something, that's what Western medicine is really good at.
So I'll refer out for occasionally for some kind of testing.
And, and I like to refer people to really good doctors.
It's I have a list of good doctors and bad doctors.
And, then I refer out a lot to chiropractors or acupuncturists or various kinds of mental therapies, especially around trauma.
And, and all of those referrals I don't refer to anybody unless I know them.
And so that means I have to make an appointment with them.
It's usually professional courtesy, so I'm not charged. And I go and experience their work, and then I know whether they're worthy of having a referral.
Mhmm. Excellent. I do.
Really nice for massage. Yeah.
How can I try?
Some people only wanna go to men. Some people only wanna go to women. Mhmm. Some people are better at necks or backs or feet or whatever.
Mhmm. So it means you get taken care of, and it's a write off.
Nice.
Gotcha.
I like that. I like that idea.
Alright. And so, Abby says, I asked for a few years. She's diagnosed with white coat hypertension.
I can feel my blood pressure rising as soon as I solve the stethoscope. Do you find that some patients experience anxiety with your diagnostic methods when you perform facial tongue or nail examination?
No.
If I have clinic and there are, you know, ten people in the room and they all converge on the consultation, trust has already been established, And people aren't, you know, usually it's more of an embarrassment than trust.
You know, everyone initially thinks it's weird to stick their tongue out. We've been taught not to do that all our lives.
So, you know, and you just say oh don't worry about it and here's a mirror so you can see it and then I'll teach you what to look for for change.
And and that empowers them to, oh, they then they get interested and they can look at it and go, oh, I see. I need the coating to extend side to side, front to back, or get rid of those spleen lines or, you know, watch the heat disappear, whatever. And that way you're sending them home with something that they can actively participate in.
Okay. Okay.
Genevieve, she's witnessed herbalists, experienced herbalists as they laser in on emotional or energetic blocks with the clients, and she always wonders how how how does she know that? She she knows she wouldn't have seen it. So she sees the true healing usually stems from a psycho spiritual shift. Although we are not psychotherapists, there's so much more happening in the consultation than a mere prescription of plants. Do you have any advice or resources that would help me sharpen this intuitive skill to be able to tap in and decipher what's truly going on? Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah. I think we are psychotherapists.
Mhmm.
There's a book called, let's see, Becoming oh, shoot. It's, Mark Mark Blumenthal's wife, Michelle, shoot, Becoming Professional.
I can't remember the title.
First of all, study energy, How to figure out how to sense your own energy.
When you learn how to sense your own energy, you'll be able to sense energy in people. Mhmm.
Health has a certain energetic vibration.
Stagnation has an energetic vibration.
Heat has an energetic vibration.
And you can some people are able to look at the body and see those things. Some people are able to off the body scan it and feel it. I mean I was a polarity therapy practitioner and instructor for years. So you know, energy is a normal part of my life. It isn't weird. I mean, that was one of the things that would come up in med school all the time. What do you mean by energy?
What do you mean the energy of the plant?
You know? Right. Oh my god.
Right. But I think as a practitioner everyone who practices should should tune into some form of energetic healing whether it's Reiki or whatever. My partner Peter Meyer he teaches classes in energy, how to sense your own and therefore sense the plants and the eventually the people. Mhmm.
You know, we're all alive. Life has energy.
In a in a Disease definitely has energy.
Cancer definitely has energy.
Yeah. You know, it seems that one of those things that you just kinda have to do and then you start to see it.
And and, what worked for for me was, you know, was just a lot of time in nature. Just sit by a tree.
Yeah. Look at the ocean, take walks, get get out of your head.
Get out of your head and get into nature. Absolutely.
That we spend most of our time, it's like reminding people, you know plants are our friends. We go out and be with them. Walk off the pavement.
Yeah.
Go into the woods.
Exactly.
I mean, I love I I'm really fortunate here as you are living on the ocean. So I can go stand at the edge of the ocean.
So I have the land, the sea, the earth and the sky.
Beautiful.
And there are days I can watch the moon come up and the sun go down. I mean, it's it's a magical place.
That that's a good point too is, you know, just observing, like you just said, like, you know, what phase is the moon in? What where's the sun?
What season are we in? I said, windy today? You know? Is it what's the weather like? You know, that's sensing energy. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. When you walk outside early in the morning, barefoot, what are you absorbing? That's great. It's beautiful.
Thanks. So, let's see. Mary, do you have, in your book, do you have pictures for facial nail and tongue diagnosis?
Oh, sorry. Will you have pictures for facial nail and tongue diagnosis more than in your book? I don't know exactly what that means. You have it in your book, but do you mean more than that? I don't I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
I think I sort of touched on that and that Yeah. The the diagrams change as my opinion about them and my experience of seeing them or not seeing them changes.
And each time I print a new edition I seem to have discovered new lines on people that have consistent meaning.
So, yes, things change.
And, let's see. What are your suggestions to heal old scar tissue? Getting in some health questions now. Now red after three decades due to abdominal, due to abdominal massage. Yeah.
Due to abdominal massage. So this is a person who makes scar tissue.
And, people who make scar tissues like keloid, so those are those kind of ripply looking scars.
Or if you run your finger over a scar and it feels like a little round snake, you know, it's really very rounded and hard or you look at them and they're purple, you know, a scar should be the same color as your skin, you know, it shouldn't be, deeply colored.
So if you're a person who makes scar tissue, there are a few good tricks. Herbali, Menarda fistulosa which is sweet leaf Karen Sanders taught me this, is an herb that can break up scar tissue.
So the way that I use it is in combination with massage, you work on the scar gently but firmly and then you use the herb internally and externally. So you could make monardone fistulosa which is the Indian name is sweet leaf.
So you could make an oil of the Monarda or you could make tincture and take the tincture internally and the oil used externally.
As a supplement you can use something called serrapeptase, s e r r a p e p p a s e and serrapeptase is made by silkworms and it targets scar tissue anywhere in the body. So you don't really want to take it with food. You take it away from food otherwise it might target that protein.
So and that works really well.
So those are two good things for scar tissue. And then there's a massage that, there's actually a massage technique, scar massage where you ice the scar and then, diagonally very slowly, torturously slowly, you pull your fingers apart and you can watch the blood eventually go back into the area of the scar. All of a sudden you see it goes from white to being pink.
And, and I've had that done on my own scars and on scars of clients.
And it takes maybe six sessions, icing, doing the diagonal massage and then herbally you make rosehip seed oil and add to that essential oils of all the roses.
So rose auto, rosemary, rose geranium and rosewood.
And rub that on the scar afterward and that all helps to break up the scar tissue.
Oh, great. Thanks.
Yes?
Daniella, could you help to find or, could you help to find herbal herb herbal combinations for, excuse me, the gallbladder, which is working on a five percent capacity. Oh, boy. And high blood pressure and high blood pressure with, palpitation and high blood pressure.
Yeah. This is where you say, make a a consultation with a qualified herbalist. Yeah. We don't answer those on the on the radio. Those are silly. So I would say, you know, that's a question where you need to have a consultation with a qualified journalist who takes your entire history.
Thanks for saying that because, because really, and and that's great to point out because, sometimes, yeah, you know, we'll have people even join our site and I always say don't join HerbMentor. If you're just coming to get a health question answered, just come because you wanna learn about herbs in your life and get infuse them in your life. But sometimes, people will go away disgruntled because they'll come on and say, like, okay. Question, like, a very serious question where they actually need to see somebody. And it's like, well, we can't really do that over the Internet. You need to see somebody.
So we don't mean to be demeaning or anything.
Just that, like, you know, you just have to you have to just really, you know, understand that that it's And it honors the person.
Yeah. You know? I wouldn't I would not dishonor somebody by answering that question without doing a full medical history. Yeah. I exactly. That would that would totally be irresponsible.
And then and then and then now that we say this, then people go, I see. You know, I can see where now that, especially, gosh, if you look in your book and see all that's that's involved, it's like, my goodness, how could you could you, you know, get really in detail and really offer? But the best thing you do, right, go see someone.
Is there a place just you know, someone might be wondering because, it's one thing if I happen to live in Marblehead and, can look up Margie Flint. But, is there gosh. Like, any place online where that you trust, where people can maybe find someone that they who doesn't live who doesn't know if there's a qualified person near them?
Do you know if there's a Well, I'm in the guild.
The American Herbalist Guild has a listing of professional members of the guild.
Okay.
And that's peer reviewed.
Okay.
I mean, I've been a member for a long time, and I'm sure the qualifications have changed over the years, but I think they'd still take me.
And so so and so sometimes, right, just many like yourself. Right? Folks like yourself will do over the phone. Right? Consultations too.
So it's not just you have to do Especially with Skype.
I mean, the computer these days is amazing.
Right.
You can sit and look at your client and have a conversation as though they're right in front of you.
Alright.
And even if they Oh. Of their tongue and nails and and I of their tongue and nails and and I can't do pulses but you know you can learn quite a bit without the pulse so that's fine.
And and getting in touch with you for a consultation, you could just go through your website earth earthsong herbals dot com.
Or you could call the business line.
Yeah.
And that's on the website. Right? Yeah.
It's on the website.
Great. Great. Just making sure that they there's a direction.
Yeah. Since we're talking about that, they'll be, where how do I get in touch with Marty? Well, you can go. Yeah.
It's challenging since my beautiful, wonderful computer crashed a week ago. And it was like, it's been sort of a relief to have a week without a computer.
Wow. Yeah. Not for We'll see. I have to go and make it easy.
Good the cloud really is. She's laughing now. Check-in next week.
After after it all syncs back up again, did it ruin work? That's funny.
Yeah. It'll be a new chapter on cloud diagnosis now.
So, yeah. Jody, what can a person do who has been diagnosed with TMJ to relieve the pain? Surgery is not an option. Dental visits.
Easy one for that.
Okay. So she also says, just so so you know, the dental visits have not been made, have have made the condition unbearable at times looking for other ways to control it. Okay.
Okay. First, when you go to the dentist, take homeopathic arnica or rub arnica onto the temporal mandibular joint before you go and after you come home. But homeopathic arnica is a great solution to go into the dentist and find a kinder dentist.
And then another recipe that is wonderful is equal parts of juice ginger and, sesame oil.
And you just take that ginger and sesame oil and, put it into a ziplock bag and then, put it in the freezer. I don't know. I'm hearing another voice. Are you?
No. I'm not. As long as I'm not.
Okay. Good.
You put that bag in the freezer and you just break a chip off every now and again and rub it on to the TMJ and that helps to loosen up those ligaments.
A good chiropractor should be able to loosen that up really quickly.
And, keep your tongue in between your teeth so that you can't clench your jaw.
I mean, if you're if if your tension from your life, if your place is your TMJ, just focus on keeping your jaw relaxed and watch what was I thinking.
Right. Right. Are there, some nervine herbs, to take regularly maybe, like, to might help tension in their life, like, I don't know, like oatstraw or something? I'm just I'm just throwing that out there.
Oatstraw is my ultimate favorite nervine.
Yeah. So you could take nervines too, but the jaw is really, I mean, you have to be physically aware of not clenching.
You have to focus. Mhmm. And when you notice you're clenching, you just stick your teeth in between your your tongue in between your teeth so you can't clench. Get those little ginger chips out, rub them in, and and that's awesome enough to do it. But you know, a good chiropractor can really help you.
I would interview though first. Do you do TMJ work?
Right. Yeah. I like a I do network chiropractor. I really like them a lot.
Yeah. Network's cool. Good craniosacral.
Yeah. K.
Let's see.
Rolfing Mhmm. Except you'll cry.
Good to know.
So let's see. Renee, what would you suggest for someone that has thoughts? Nothing in particular one night after another night, that like, she has rambling thoughts which interferes with their sleep, basically. Can we can, so can something be taken in tincture form? Passion flower. Okay.
She has weak bladder is also an issue.
Repeated repeated thoughts.
Passion flower is great for that or flower essences. And I'm a mindless flower essence practitioner. I just douse, I go through the rows of hundreds of flower essences that I have and just pick out the right ones and they're always right.
Passion flower.
And just go Passion flower tincture is is great for getting rid of those rambling thoughts.
Excellent.
Let's see. Monica is, when my husband, sweats, it bleaches out his clothes and the bed sheets And she can't find information about this. So do you know about this? Can you do anything?
I mean, my first thought is, is he like a swimming instructor?
Is the clean houses or something?
Or sit in the hot tub.
Is he just absorbing bleach through his skin somehow? I mean, even in restaurants, most restaurants around here, they make the employees wash the dishes in Clorox Right.
Which I would not do ever in my life.
But I mean he must be either consuming something that is triggering some radical excretion of an enzyme or something through his body but to bleach out material I mean what could do that?
All I can think of is Clorox. So I would look at, you know, is he cleaning with something or what is his job? You know, what is he absorbing in his body that does that? Because most people when they sweat actually leave darker stains on the sheets.
Right.
You know? I mean, that's a really interesting phenomena.
Which is probably why she can't find any information on it.
Yeah. And I've never heard of it before.
Wow. Wow.
You know, this this this other question snuck in there since some strange guy on our site named Jim McDonald and he was wondering Oh, I love him.
He will he was wondering who his question is who's the fairest herbalist in Michigan of them all?
The fairest in Michigan.
It would have to be gem, I think.
Wow.
Mirror mirror on the wall. He's the Jim I love.
Yeah. I love him. He is so smart. Oh my god. And funny and musical and has a beautiful house with cob walls. I mean, jeez.
Oh, neat.
He designed it himself. He's like a renaissance man.
He is. He is. Oh, and I on our bench, we have a new air block with him coming up soon, which will be fun.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
That we did at Rootstock last year. So, well, yeah. So thanks, Jim, for sneaking in that question in the midnight hour.
Leave it to Jim.
So, Margie, do you have any upcoming quest do you have any upcoming questions?
Upcoming classes that you'd like to tell us about that you're offering at your place or on the road or Okay.
I always have clinics going on and they are on demand. So if somebody wants to come, just tell me the dates and I'll tell you if I'm available.
William Morris will be here early in December for two days of pulse diagnosis and one day of celestial herbology. So understanding the astrological connections to plants.
Matt Wood and Kay Parent and I are going to be teaching together again in February for a week long clinical intensive where we bring clients in and teach half of the day.
Half day with client, half day with each of us lecturing. And we have three very different approaches on how to see clients. So it's it's a good a good experience for, you know, anyone who's trying to figure out, oh, you know, which direction do I wanna go in? And really, it's about teaching empowerment. You know, how to see who you are as a practitioner.
Wow.
And then I'm traveling a lot. So in the fall, I head out to Bastyr.
There's a free lecture at night out there sometime during the the, I should if I had my computer, I could tell you. Let's see. A cell phone, that might work.
And a Pacific Rim College, I'll be out there for a week.
And, there's also a class near Bellingham.
Oh, okay.
And I can tell you in a sec when that'll be, but that's about three weeks in the fall.
And if if I if I get a location in Portland to teach, I will teach there. But so far, no one's grabbed me. But I would love to go down there because I have a new daughter-in-law.
Oh, congratulations. How many kids do you have?
I oh, it's actually because I'm getting married.
Oh, you are getting married. I'm thinking, like, your son is getting married and your Right. Your new daughter-in-law.
They all got married.
Okay.
All my kids are married.
But, Oh, congratulations to you.
Thank you.
You're getting okay. So you're getting married where you are. You have your daughter in law's in. Right? Your new daughter in law?
My daughter-in-law lives in Portland Oregon. Oregon. Yeah.
Nice.
Nice. So I'll be in at Pacific Rim in October. So, then at Chris Bornke. Is that right? Bornke?
In, Bellingham, that's the weekend of October six and seven. And I'll be teaching reading the body.
So all the diagnostic lines and colors.
And, last year when is that?
I'm seeing you have I'm on your website here looking and you have some dates from last yeah. It's on the website and there's some little stuff from last year too on there. So you might have to be careful of your dates when you're looking at it.
I have stuff on my website from Well, maybe they didn't, you know, update the year.
Oh, wait. This page is different. Okay. I'm on a different page now. Okay. There was another page. Yeah.
Refresh it.
Yeah. Okay. There we go.
Okay. You're good.
It's all there. So it's all there on the site, on earth earth song herbals dot com.
So, yeah, I've looked forward to we should we should plan to hang out and do something. When you're here, make your, West Coast trip more worthwhile.
Like, maybe we can have a little Absolutely. The little glass of a little webinar or something for we'll we'll make something up that'll be fun.
Let's see. And, of course, on earth song herbals dot com, you can, pick up Margie's book, and I just wanna point out to folks that that book is a, you know, you treat it as a textbook. It's a resource. So it's, it's it's hefty, and it's also, you know, like, it's a self produced textbook so it costs a little bit. Right? But it's, it's the cost of a textbook.
So it's a hundred dollars.
Yep. It's a textbook.
And it's hard bound and really big.
Yes.
So and you and what's really cool is you can you can go through the whole table of contents on your site. Mhmm.
And so you can see exactly what you're getting, what's in it, and then you'll understand why this is so extensive in this.
Yep. And, again, the website EarthSongHerbals.com. Margi Flint, thank you so much for joining me today. I really it's been a blast and I had a lot of fun, so thank you.
Oh, it was a complete pleasure.
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