John Gallagher:
Hey, Tara.
Tara Ruth:
Hi, John.
John Gallagher:
Do you believe in inflammation?
Tara Ruth:
I do. When you say it like that, it kind of sounds like a monster under the bed or something, but I totally do. How about you?
John Gallagher:
Well, it gets a little tricky because you look on your phone, you're going through whatever, Facebook and stuff, and there's all these ads telling me I can cure inflammation. It's the root of all my problems, and I can just take this one herb, and I'm just not buying it.
Tara Ruth:
I hear you. Inflammation can be this powerful buzzword these days and it feels like almost every chronic health issue that someone has is linked to inflammation, which can raise my hackles, make me feel a little suspicious. But after talking with Rosalee de la Forêt today on our episode, I feel a lot more certain about one, what inflammation is, why it can cause so many different health issues, and how to really support my body in a joyful way with herbs and different lifestyle choices.
John Gallagher:
I'm so grateful Rosalee is here with us today. So let's just get to the interview.
You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio by LearningHerbs.com. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. Today we're chatting with Rosalee de la Forêt. For over 20 years, Rosalee has been helping people radically change their health using herbs and natural remedies. She's helped hundreds of clients reclaim their health and has also taught thousands of herbal students, including many of our herb mentor members.
John Gallagher:
Thank you.
Tara Ruth:
I know. Thank you Rosalee. Rosalee is also the author of popular books like Alchemy of Herbs and Wild Remedies, and she hosts the Herbs with Rosalee podcast. She does a lot of amazing things.
John Gallagher:
Yes.
Tara Ruth:
You can learn more about her work at Herbs with Rosalee.com.
John Gallagher:
Rosalee, welcome to Herb Mentor Radio.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Oh, thank you, John. It's a pleasure to be here. Hello, Tara.
Tara Ruth:
Hello.
John Gallagher:
After years and years of doing online events and webinars together, this is the first time you're an official guest on Herb Mentor Radio. So welcome.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, thanks for having me, John. What finally got me the invite? I'm curious.
John Gallagher:
Well, I heard that somebody was hanging out with Tori Amos last weekend and I was just like, "I've got to get her on the show because she's one degree away from Tori Amos."
Rosalee de la Forêt:
That's fair.
John Gallagher:
So could you tell us about what happened, that experience?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Oh, sure. I always love to talk about Tori. That's my favorite subject apart from herbs, of course. Yeah, so Tori Amos... Maybe there's some folks who don't know who she is, but she's often called a singer-songwriter. I think of her as a goddess. Since I was 12 years old was when I first got her CD, and she's been my obsessive favorite ever since for every stage of my life. And she just wrote a children's book and was doing a book tour and a photo op, and so completely normal thing to do, I decided to fly down to LA and stand in line for six hours so I could get a minute with Tori. And so I did that and it was amazing. She's a really incredible person, apart from her talents as a musician. She's just really present and really kind, and I was really excited just to go have a few moments with her and tell her thank you for all the inspiration she's brought to my life. So yeah, it was an amazing weekend.
John Gallagher:
And she had something to do with inspiring you to write the Wild Remedies book that you've co-authored with Emily Hahn. So what's the story behind that?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, that book, I'm guessing would not exist without her. I flew to Ireland to see her for one of her tours, and I got to meet her there too and have more of a conversation with her. And what actually happened is we had this conversation, she was really amazing. She asked me all these questions about herbs. I brought her Alchemy of Herbs, the book, and so she asked me questions about herbs. And the whole thing was I think my blood pressure must've been sky-high, the whole thing [inaudible 00:03:57] head. I was trying to be cool, but the whole time I'm like, "Oh my God." And so after that conversation where she had asked me about herbs and she asked me the best way to work with herbs and how they were most effective, I just kept playing the conversation over and over in my head, like only in obsessive personality like myself can do, and I just thought, "I wish I'd said this," or, "I wish I'd said that." And I kept thinking about that. And then as I was literally just thinking about that over and over again, it just hit me like, "Oh, I need to write a book about that." And so that's how the book was born. And it was funny... Maybe not funny, but I was like, "I will never write another book again after Alchemy.
John Gallagher:
I remember.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
It's so much work. It's just an incredible amount of work.
John Gallagher:
I was like, "Oh, thank you, Rosalee for saying that." And then-
Rosalee de la Forêt:
And then... Yeah, it just came to me. So Wild Remedies is really about nature connection and really how to work with herbs in your everyday life, and I was directly inspired by that conversation.
John Gallagher:
And it was deeply connected with the world that... When we met Rosalee, we were involved with the Wilderness Awareness School community and you were adjacent to that too, and really connects to the work that brought us into herbalism in the first place. Wild Remedies, right?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yep, absolutely. Wild Remedies was the book that I wish I'd had when I was 20 years old just starting out kind of thing.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, I still call it the best wild plant book out there. Because it's not just about the herbs themselves, but about nature awareness and connection and thinking about the ecological aspects of the plants you're harvesting, really important stuff if you're going to harvest herbs.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Mm-hmm.
Tara Ruth:
Rosalee, I love hearing about this evolution of your focus in terms of what you've been writing about over the years, and I've also noticed in your work over recent years, a big focus for you has been herbs for inflammation. Inflammation is this buzzword that gets tossed around a lot these days. I see it in different clickbait articles, but it can be confusing of what actually is inflammation? And I'm wondering, can you just break down in simple terms exactly what inflammation is for our listeners?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Sure, yeah, that makes me think, Tara of 20 years ago, Candida caused everything, and so the buzzword clickbait was like everything possible under the sun that you could ever be experiencing is due to a Candida
John Gallagher:
Candida, yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Totally.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, it's true. I forgot about that.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
In this case, with inflammation, it is a buzzword and it does get thrown around a lot, but it has a lot more merits. There is physiological processes that we can directly track and measure with inflammation. So it can really seem like this umbrella buzzword, but that's because it truly is all encompassing. It is good to know exactly what inflammation is though because it can often be seen or thought of as that inflammation is always something that's bad, but inflammation is actually one of the most essential processes of the body. It's really your built-in first responder. And so when we have acute inflammation following some type of injury, this is a really good thing. We would die without it. So again, it's a first response activity.
So when you have some kind of injury, it's your body mobilizing to address and ultimately heal that injury. Things like redness, heat, swelling. Let's say you sprain your ankle, all those things will happen. It might get red, it'll get swollen. If you touch it, it feels hot. These are all physiological processes of your body sending different enzymes and hormones to start the healing process. And so that's a really good thing. We really want that, always. Again, we'd die if we did not have that. Same thing when we get sick, there's an inflammatory process. Again, we want that because it's sparking the healing process, or at least dealing with it in the acute situation. So that's very good.
Chronic inflammation, however is very bad. It lingers for a long time. It can damage healthy tissues over a period of time. It's basically when the immune system stays activated for too long and these inflammatory signals basically don't get shut off even when they're no longer needed. And so it puts constant stress on tissues. And so it's the opposite. Instead of allowing for healing, it's causing damage over time and it can lead to all sorts of things like stiffness, pain, scarring, long-term damage, and it can create an oxidative stress overload in the body, which puts us at risk for things like chronic diseases. And so there's a lot going on with chronic inflammation that we really want to be addressing. And so again, in the short term, it's great, it's necessary for healing, but when it lingers, it really causes a lot of harm. And it is systemic, and so it affects a lot of different things in the body, which again, leads to that buzzword situation, because if you look at all the things underneath inflammation, it can start to raise some red flags, like "Really?" But in this case, yeah, really.
John Gallagher:
What would make someone think they have chronic inflammation. They're seeing all these ads and these things saying, "You might have chronic inflammation," or, "Everyone has it," or whatever. How would I know what the symptoms are if I should look into if I have chronic inflammation?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
So chronic inflammation, especially in the beginning stages can be somewhat subtle, because when things come on subtly and slowly, sometimes we become normalized to them and so we think, "Oh, everybody has some pain," or, "Everybody feels tired," or, "Everybody has all these things," but it can slowly ramp up over time, so that is a problematic issue going on. I can give you some symptoms specifically, and again, if it raises some red flags of, "Oh, this is everything," again, it's what makes looking at chronic inflammation so critical and essential for our health, because it is systemic, it does affect everything. So for example, chronic inflammation can show up as general fatigue, brain fog, or even just difficulty concentrating. It can show up as joint pain, muscle aches, just general stiffness. It can affect our digestion in a whole bunch of different ways, from bloating to irregularity. It can show up on the skin, eczema, psoriasis, those are all signs of inflammation. It can affect our nervous system, it can be a part of anxiety, depression, insomnia. So common everyday things that most people are experiencing can often be traced back to chronic inflammation.
And then if it's left unchecked and they continue on that pathway, it can lead to more serious conditions. Like most cardiovascular disease has chronic inflammation as an underlying factor. Metabolic dysfunction, things like insulin resistance, type two diabetes, even autoimmune disorders all fall under this umbrella of chronic inflammation.
Tara Ruth:
John, it is such an honor to have Rosalee here with us today.
John Gallagher:
It was her special brand of magic and fun that created the herb mentor that we all know and love today.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. When I am in the forum on herb mentor, when I'm co-leading our live meetups with Kimberly, when I'm looking at our Herbs in Practice class, our Getting Started with Herbs series, our Wildcrafters Toolkit series and all these other classes, I feel so much gratitude for Rosalee because she has infused fun and an approachability and elegant simplicity into all the courses that she made, but also all of the courses that we've gotten to create with other herbalists as well. She's really brought this ethos of joy and having things actually make sense.
John Gallagher:
Exactly. The gift that she has is taking complex ideas and synthesizing them and distilling them to ideas that people can easily grasp and understand.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Like right now we're talking about this big concept, inflammation, that can elude so many people, and she's breaking it down in simple terms and giving us just some key takeaways so that we can really start addressing inflammation in our everyday lives. And she does that in all of these other classes that she shares on our mentor, and all of these other teachers that we work with too do that. With each class that I take, I feel like I get to add another tool to my toolkit and feel like such a competent herbalist. It's such a joy.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. And a lot of things complement the courses that we have [inaudible 00:12:39] complement what she's talking about today, like food as medicine, culinary herbalism. She even mentioned adding a mocktail, a fun way to bring in bitters into your life, and that we have botanical mixology, which teaches you how to do that.
Tara Ruth:
Exactly, yeah. We have all these different courses that are just here to support you on your healing journey, and you get to go at your own pace and have fun with it and collaborate with other members in the forum. And all of this is at a very reasonable price. And there's even a discount. John, where can people find this discount?
John Gallagher:
If you go to Herbmentorradio.com... You're listening to Herb Mentor Radio, just add a dotcom to that... You can find a way to get, I think half off of Herb Mentor. So we did that for listeners. We appreciate you being here. Thank you.
Tara Ruth:
We do.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, maybe we'll see you on Herb Mentor. We have challenges on there that Tara organizes and you're on there with Kimberly every couple of weeks taking questions and presenting really cool new ideas and herbal lessons.
Tara Ruth:
It's so fun.
John Gallagher:
It's great. And the resources, the monographs, the hundreds of monographs whenever you want to look a plant up. Weekly quizzes and so much more fun stuff. So go check out Herb Mentor and go to Herbmentorradio.com for the discount.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, come join us in this vibrant community. I'm having so much fun there and I would love to see you there too. But in the meantime, let's get back to talking with Rosalee.
As I hear you go through different symptoms and some of the different disease pathways that people can start to go down, I'm hearing you mention so many different body systems. I'm like, "Oh wow, this can affect everything," like you're saying. And with that in mind, I'm like, "Oh, of course I'd want to learn more about inflammation." But I'm curious, for you, what inspired you specifically to start focusing your work on inflammation?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, so first was my own problems with inflammation. Over 20 years ago I had a very rare autoimmune disease, and I went to Western medicine for help with that and they diagnosed it and it was considered a terminal disease, and they didn't have the pill to fix it. It's called Still's disease, and they didn't have the pill for Still's disease basically, but they recognized the inflammatory processes underneath it, and I was given prednisone and told, "Good luck. This will work for a while, but then it won't work, and then you'll have to deal with the consequences," kind of thing. And so that was just really eye-opening for me of like, "Okay, inflammation is the cause, but we don't have a way under Western medicine to really treat the underlying reasons for inflammation." All we could do is suppress the inflammation with something strong like steroids.
So I had that experience and I ultimately got better from that. Spoiler alert. It ended up not being terminal for me. But because I got better from that, that really propelled me into wanting to be a clinical herbalist because I figured there must be other people out there who are being told that there are no solutions to your chronic issues. Whereas I could see that the holistic framework and diagnostic methods of herbalism wasn't that way, that there is a path where it's healing in that way. So I became a clinical herbalist and I started working with lots of clients. And I saw people would come to see me for pain and sleep issues and anxiety and digestive issues and skin issues, and I began to see, "Oh, these are all rooted in this underlying cause of chronic inflammation." And instead of again, finding the herb for eczema or the herb for digestive problems or whatever, it was like, "Oh, we could actually address chronic inflammation," and that was the root of things that could then propel someone on more of a healing path. So I started to see those real lasting effects by addressing chronic inflammation. And so that was a big influence.
Then also, again, conventional approaches in the Western medicine, all they do is suppress symptoms. They don't get to the cause. But even alternative health practitioners, I don't think they're doing a great job either as a whole dealing with chronic inflammation, because what I commonly see... and I'm just doing a broad generalization stereotype here, but what I generally see is that they're fear-based models where it's like you have to be afraid of every toxin under the sun and you have to do extreme elimination diets or else nothing can help you. There's also this over-reliance on really expensive supplements. So you have to buy your way out of inflammation. It's like, "buy $700 worth of supplements a month."
Tara Ruth:
What a bargain.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
So I really was seeing like, "Okay, we have this big issue of chronic inflammation and we have these other systems like conventional western medicine and fear-based alternative health models that aren't really working," and I love that herbalism is different. With herbalism we help modulate inflammation. We're looking on how to work with the body and long-term healing and really matching herbs and lifestyle choices to the person so it's not this one size fits all approach to inflammation. And just everything I do is joy-based not fear-based, because I just don't think that fear-based method is actually an approach towards health if we're still stuck in [inaudible 00:18:05].
John Gallagher:
Right. We don't think about our words and our actions and things as being inflammatory. What are some of the roots that you've seen in inflammation for people? You've worked with a lot of people, you've taught and mentored a lot of folks in your cooling inflammation course, which we'll talk about later. From your work, if you can share one or a couple of things that people might be experiencing as the root of their inflammation.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. So that's a great question. And I think one of the reasons why Western medicine struggles with this is because there's never the one thing, it's each person's mixture of things that comes together. And I often think of this as a pie chart as a visual. So one person could have some chronic inflammation going on and maybe 50% of the cause of their chronic inflammation is that they really freaking hate their job and they're stressed about their job. Their commute to their job really sucks. Their boss sucks, and the pressure that they're under really sucks. And so they have this chronic stress situation going on because their job is looming so big in their life and causing so much stress. So that could be like 50%. And then maybe their diet's pretty good, but not great. So 10% of their chronic inflammation is being caused by digestive problems. Maybe they don't sleep restfully at night, which can be a very big deal for chronic inflammation. So maybe 30% of their issue is through that. So I think I have another 10% in there. And then their job is mainly sedentary, and so that is adding to the chronic inflammation too. So that could be one person's makeup.
You could have another person who is active and they love their job, so those aren't the issues. Chronic stress and movement aren't issues, but maybe diet plays a much bigger role for them, or maybe sleep plays a much bigger role. And so there's these things that we can look at individually for folks. It's never the one thing. It's how do all these things come together and how do we make choices that aren't overwhelming? Because the goal isn't of course to be like, "Oh, all you need to do to get better is to be an entirely different person."
Tara Ruth:
Oh, easy. I think I'm going to do that actually.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. So how do we make it all work, again, in a joyful way, not in a fear-based or overwhelming way?
Tara Ruth:
This even makes me think about the language of something being anti-inflammatory, against inflammation and inflammation is scary versus something modulating inflammation, which is what a lot of herbs actually do. Can you talk a little bit about that difference between something being an anti-inflammatory versus an inflammation modulator?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, great question, Tara. I try really hard... Sometimes I slip up, but I really try hard not to call herbs anti-inflammatories because it's just not accurate. They really aren't anti-inflammatories. So anti-inflammatories like NSAIDs, like ibuprofen for example, or steroids, they do shut down inflammation almost entirely, which can be very dramatic and very helpful at times, but it comes with some really serious downsides because the inflammatory process is the body's natural healing process. So there's that. There's increased risk of tissue damage when done especially over long-term. It puts a lot of strain, especially the NSAID use can put a lot of strain on digestion and gut health, which ironically contributes to more chronic inflammation. So it's a very nasty cycle there. And steroids, of course, taken long-term can also suppress the immune system, which again is all tied up in this inflammation process. So again, another vicious cycle.
So we don't actually want herbs to be anti-inflammatories, because if they were truly anti-inflammatories they'd be causing the same negative effects that NSAIDs and steroids are doing. Herbs are different. As you said, Tara, they're not anti-inflammatory. They modulate it. They help our bodies regulate our responses rather than just shutting it down. I think of a lot of our inflammation modulating herbs... It's like they're having a conversation with our body and saying, "Wake up here and respond to this here." And so it's creating this more dynamic response in a way that's very beneficial for our bodies. It's almost like strength training. When you first start strength training, whenever you're strength training, for that matter, you're lifting weights and you're causing some stress and minor muscle tears going on in your body, and it's necessary to do that in order to grow stronger. And so that's what herbs are doing in a very real sense is they have this conversation with your immune system. They're poking at the immune system, poking at these inflammatory levels, but creating an overall beneficial response in the end.
So that's a fascinating thing about herbs and just how they help regulate inflammatory pathways in a way that's again, all about finding balance in the body, not about suppressing anything.
Tara Ruth:
I love how you're talking about it as a conversation and not suppressing anything. It's making me think about how you talked about just a holistic approach for a person in determining the root causes of their inflammation too. As a practitioner, you're probably having a conversation and having this joy based approach. We're not shutting anything down per se. We're figuring out where we can fine tune things and fine balance collaboratively.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. Well said.
John Gallagher:
So an herb we often hear about for inflammation is turmeric, and we're talking about chronic inflammation. That my question, I want to dive into that, but I'm also thinking, if you could mix in there a little bit... I think the first time I heard the word anti-inflammatory for an herb was for example, for first aid purposes, for calendula, for example. So I was wondering if you could weave that in our mindset versus something for first aid versus chronic inflammation, and if calendula is also an inflammation modulator.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Okay, I'll see what we can do with that. Turmeric. I'll dive into turmeric first. I love turmeric. I don't know the last time I went a day without having turmeric in some way, shape or form. It's a beloved herb of mine. And the reason why it's so popular is because it's amazing. It's a cherished herb. It has been cherished for many centuries through the Ayurvedic tradition, and it's one of the most researched herbs for inflammation specifically, whether looking at the whole herb or they love to look at the isolated extracts of the curcuminoids. But it definitely has been highly studied, highly revered, highly cherished. We know it modulates inflammatory pathways. So again, it's not an anti-inflammatory, but it modulates inflammation through a balancing act. It's a really powerful antioxidant, so it helps to protect cells from oxidative stress, which is very important when we're looking at chronic inflammation. It's a really wonderful herb for the liver. It helps with detox protocols and just helping natural metabolic waste removal from the body and on and on and on and on. I mean, there's so many things. Turmeric is a wonderful gift for our bodies. Joint pain, metabolic inflammation, brain health, cardiovascular support and on. So there's a reason why it's such a big deal.
However, one thing about turmeric is that it is not for everybody, and the reason why is, it comes down to energetics. And so turmeric is somewhat warming and very drying. And so what this means in real life is that if you take a little bit of turmeric every day in your meals or whatever, you probably won't notice it. But if you start taking higher therapeutic doses of turmeric and you tend to be dry already in your overall constitution, you might notice things like you might notice that your eyes are drier, you might notice your skin or your hair is drier. You'll have maybe constant thirst and it feels like your mouth is always dry. And this can become quite a big deal as your body just dries up from the turmeric. I can't tell you how many times I've had people... They didn't know that's what was happening. They're like, "Oh, that's why my eyes are so dry now." Yes, that would be turmeric.
And so turmeric is great, but it really needs to be, as always, matched to a person. We're thinking about things when people have stagnant, damp conditions, that's when turmeric is going to really shine, especially in those larger dosages. But for people who have the dry skin, dry digestion, constipation due to dryness, it can really make things worse. So we always want to be thinking about not just anti-inflammatory herbs, which again is a bit of a misnomer, but how do we really match those herbs to the person and what's going on for the person?
And in terms of calendula, calendula is also a wonderful herb that modulates inflammation, and it can be worked with both for acute and chronic situations as well. We're really glad that our herbs aren't pure anti-inflammatories, because when we work with these herbs for an acute situation, we definitely don't want to shut down inflammation in that stage. We want to support the whole healing process. And we're really again, looking to work with the body rather than opposing it. Calendula is great for first aid situations and that realm as well.
John Gallagher:
So I have a little trouble with turmeric digestively, and I'm a bummed because I know all its amazing things that it does. But for people just integrating turmeric into their life, what's the best way? Capsules or golden milk? Another thing is, if people look for capsules, is they see the extract, the curcumin extract, do they take that versus straight turmeric?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, good questions. The easiest answer is all the ways. You mentioned golden milk, which golden milk is a wonderful beverage. It's a very traditional way to work with turmeric, which there's different ways to do it, but you're basically mixing turmeric in with a milk. And that could be a non-dairy milk for folks as well. Sometimes there's honey added, oftentimes there's other herbs added to, like ginger and black pepper. And so you're creating this beverage that can be dollied up to taste quite well. Cardamom, cinnamon can be added to it as well. And I mentioned that turmeric is drying, and when we add it to a milk like that, we're naturally adding moisture back into it, which is why this is such a wonderful traditional remedy is because they're already addressing that. And sometimes there's also things like coconut oil or ghee is added to that as well. It's clarified butter.
So that's a great way to work with turmeric. And people will often love golden milk. It's rare that someone wants to drink golden milk every day for the rest of their lives though, in my experience. It's something you enjoy for a while or maybe you enjoy a couple times a week. But it's not going to be the thing that you want to have forever and always, which is a great thing because really it's best to enjoy all of our herbs in a variety of different ways. Of course, we can cook with turmeric, and that's how I get a lot of turmeric in is because we eat a lot of curry at our house, so we often have turmeric in our meals. I'm not opposed to capsules. In fact, if somebody is going to be taking larger amounts of turmeric, that might be the best way for them to take it. It just is going to be the easiest over time. I do prefer the whole herb though.
Interestingly, with the curcuminoid extracts, what they found is that when they extract the curcuminoids from turmeric, they found that it's not very bioavailable. And so then over time, they found if they added piperine, which is an extract of black pepper to curcuminoids, that would dramatically increase the bioavailability. So if somebody was going to have extracts, they would want to look for an extract that included the piperine, which most do now, honestly. It's interesting because sometimes people will say, "Oh, you have to have black pepper with turmeric or else it's not bioavailable," which is not actually true. There's so many wonderful properties within turmeric. All of the studies looking at the bioavailability, were really looking at these extracts, not at the whole herb. The whole herb in itself is much more bioavailable than just the extracts.
However, when we look at traditional formulas, which is a great way to look at the wisdom of how this herb is being worked with, they often did include things like black pepper or ginger or other carminative spices along with turmeric. And so I don't think it's a bad idea to do that with the whole herb either. But I like to find really high quality turmeric, whole herb and work with that. Because turmeric isn't curcuminoids. There's so many different constituents and wonderful synergistic things within turmeric. And so if we just focus on curcuminoids, I feel like we're missing a big part of turmeric's medicine as a whole. Some extracts do both. They'll have the whole herb or whole rhizome within it, and then they'll also have the extract, and so that could be another option as well.
So there's all sorts of different ways, all different ways to cook with turmeric and work with turmeric in many different ways. So I recommend all of them depending on seasonality and interest and all of them.
Tara Ruth:
I'm curious, Rosalee, when you're cooking with turmeric, are you cooking with the fresh or the dried turmeric rhizome?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
I mostly do the dried rhizome, which dried herbs are generally best when we dry them. The cell walls break down and they become much more extractable. And so mostly that's the dried. You do want to have good quality turmeric, so good quality turmeric is going to be very aromatic. It's going to be bright orange in color. And so if you're looking at older turmeric, it might be browner in color and just not very aromatic. It doesn't smell that much. So we definitely want the best possible dried. I will say though, now that fresh turmeric is becoming more popular and more easy to find, I really like to juice fresh turmeric, which I didn't know that would be something I'd ever be into. But I like to juice the fresh turmeric with fresh ginger and an apple for sweetness. And when I drink that, I just feel like all the cells in my body are like, "Yes, this is good."
Tara Ruth:
Oh, that sounds so good. I'm taking notes over here, like, "Okay, I'll be doing that later." Oh my gosh, I'm salivating now. So of course I'm thinking about the digestive system. And earlier you mentioned a little bit about the connection between digestive health and chronic inflammation. And I'd love to just hear more about that connection and if there are any herbs or foods besides turmeric that you like to incorporate to optimize digestive health.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yes, absolutely. So the thing about digestion, of course, is that the digestive system isn't just about digestion. It's really deeply tied to immune function and is also very deeply tied to systemic inflammation. They say like 70% of the immune system is actually housed in the gut. What happens in the gut really influences the entire body on so many different levels. And a disrupted gut microbiome, which can happen through all sorts of things, like too much dependence on processed foods or antibiotic use or chronic stress, it can actually lead to an inflammation in the gut lining, which again can contribute to overall systemic inflammation. There's something called leaky gut or intestinal permeability, which is basically when the gut lining is disrupted, and then things like undigested food or just things that shouldn't enter the bloodstream can enter the bloodstream because basically that barrier is compromised, and that can set off immune responses that contribute to chronic inflammation. So lots of things can happen here.
That processes can lead to serious things like autoimmune conditions, it's linked to that, but it can also just be your everyday gas, bloating, dealing with constipation or diarrhea or a combination of the both. There could be just overall sluggish digestion. And when these things pop up, it can affect our skin especially. So things like eczema or acne can be going on there. Food sensitivities, especially food sensitivities that are increasing over time. So people say, "Oh, when I was younger I didn't have a problem, but then in my twenties I couldn't eat this. Then in my thirties, I couldn't eat this, and now I can't eat this and this." It can actually be a digestive dysfunction, not a true food allergy. We also know that this poor digestion can lead to things like the brain fog and mood swings, anxiety, depression. It all can get tied up in the gut health.
And I'm glad that you mentioned other herbs because I think one of the facets of chronic inflammation, as I was saying, there's no one reason why anybody has chronic inflammation and there's no one way out of it either. And in fact, it's the diversity that is the best healing path. And so it's never about the one herb, it's really all the herbs and all the lifestyle choices that come together, because inflammation does happen when our lives become overly simplified, which is why I detest elimination diets, to be honest. Because when people go on elimination diets, they tend to overly simplify their diet when really what they need is to dramatically diversify their diet, because when we have a diversified diet, then that means our body's getting all these different communications and all these different pathways are being created through the metabolic process that are really good for not ending up in chronic inflammation.
Other herbs... There's so many herbs to mention, so maybe I'll do categories. Bitter herbs, of course. When I think about digestion, I'm going to think bitter herbs. Bitter herbs help stimulate the whole digestive process. They help make sure all of our digestive enzymes are happening, and that's everything from saliva to hydrochloric acid to bile production and release, to pancreatic enzymes, all of it. So this is the warmup for digestion in general. And so those are important. For healing, if we do have inflammation throughout our digestive system, bitter herbs can help with the healing. But I also really think of demulsant herbs, like marshmallow root is a great example. It helps to soothe the gut lining. You think about if you have a sunburn and it's hot and inflamed and painful and then you put something like aloe vera on it or a cucumber and you feel that cooling relief, that's basically what marshmallow root's doing for the entire digestive systems. So that can be really important if there's signs of heat and inflammation. We have all those wonderful carminatives.
Earlier, Tara, you mentioned like, "Oh, I'm salivating thinking about all these things." I love that about carminatives. We don't even have to necessarily take them before they start working if we just smell them or think about them. That's why so many hotels now, you walk in at check-in time and they're baking cookies and stuff, and you smell that and you're just like, "Oh." Just the smell of it gets us involved in the digestive process. So things like fennel and ginger, these are wonderful ways to help move sluggish digestion. And we've co-evolved with all of these carminative herbs to help us with digestion. So that becomes an important part. I often think of it as, imagine how your belly might feel if you just ate a big serving of mashed potatoes, just straight up mashed potatoes.
John Gallagher:
Full.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Bloated.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
And then how you might feel if you still ate the mashed potatoes, but you ate it with black pepper and rosemary and salt, all these things that are helping digestive process move along. And we've taken a wrong turn in our modern diets. We're eating the mashed potatoes, but we're not eating the wonderful herbs and spices to go along with it to help the whole digestive process in general. And then I would say another big category would be a lump them together, things like fermented foods, fiber and prebiotic rich foods. These are all wonderful to help balance a microbiome or maintain healthy microbiome health, which is really critical for beneficial gut bacteria and helping avoid the chronic inflammation through having a diverse gut bacteria.
John Gallagher:
And someone might be thinking, "Wow, that's a lot to put into all my life at the same time," and whatnot, but it really is just a small step-by-step thing. Just do one thing at a time.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the one thing at a time. We talked earlier about one approach to inflammation is to buy $700 worth of supplements, which I mean, I see people doing that all the time. This is a common approach. I find that really overwhelming on the pocketbook, and also a lot of things to swallow, et cetera, and timing it all right.
John Gallagher:
And you don't know what they're for, all these little white capsules with white powders in them. [inaudible 00:39:36] so confusing [inaudible 00:39:37], "Let's just take this." You're not learning about herbs at all.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Exactly, yeah. But with herbs, we can really make them as a part of our life. So with bitter herbs, we can make really simple before meal mocktails, these really easy drinks that we can enjoy before we eat, or we can make delicious teas that just become a part of our lifestyle that we truly crave because they're delicious, and when we drink them, we know we feel good. So there's all these different ways that we can then cook with herbs, and so they just become a part of life. But I'm glad you brought that up, John, because it's not about doing it all at once. I think it's truly about finding the joy within it. I often find what people are drawn to is often what they need most, letting that inspiration be your guide too.
Tara Ruth:
I love this joy-based approach because it can just be so easy to get overwhelmed when we're trying to make these herbal or lifestyle shifts. So good. I'm also thinking about with inflammation, one of the big symptoms that you've mentioned before is pain, which can feel like the opposite of joy. It just sucks when you're in pain. And I'd love to know more about why inflammation shows up as pain and some strategies that folks can use to address inflammation-fueled pain in the body.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. This is something I'm especially invested in because I have dealt with chronic pain for most of my life, and I don't any longer, and it really has been because I've been finally able to address chronic inflammation. And yeah, it's a doozy. So inflammation is the body's way of calling for help. So when the tissues are damaged or under stress, all these different things can happen, like swelling, heat, and then sensitivity to pain as well. And again, this could be an acute situation, so sprains and muscle tears and infections can happen that causes that acute inflammation, and that's our body saying like, "Hey, problem here, please come help out." But then we can have chronic conditions like arthritis, fibromyalgia, nerve pain, et cetera. Your body's still crying out for help, but it's a different kind now. Now we need to be really addressing the root cause and not just slapping band-aids on there.
And one thing that I think is important to note is that we know that if acute inflammation isn't handled well, like it's suppressed and the healing process isn't allowed to fully resolve, then that is one way that we can then be led into chronic inflammation. And so it's important that we become a lot more savvy as a whole on how to deal with acute inflammation so that we can not simply be like... One of the worst things we can do for acute inflammation is, let's say we have that sprain, is then we pop a bunch of ibuprofen and ice it for a week. That's one of the worst things because we have now just shut off inflammatory processes. And so our body doesn't have that ability that's inherently wise and complex and amazing to go in and fix all of the things. And so the healing isn't allowed to fully be implemented. And so now we have chronic inflammation that can show up in whatever joint or whatever. So it's important that we allow inflammation in the short term and support inflammation in the short term. But then once it becomes chronic, we have to really look at it in a different way.
And this could be a whole other hour of talk really. One thing that happens with chronic inflammation is that our nervous system gets wired to it, and we can be reacting to pain signals that don't actually have a cause, which is the really fascinating thing that we're looking at. And sometimes this requires some neural reprogramming so that we can teach our body to not be as sensitive to the pain. And this is one of the most fascinating aspects of pain management right now, and I think it's pretty amazing that we can have that much control of thinking about it. And I want to be clear, this isn't just saying like, "Oh, it's all in your head, get over it." That's not what this is saying. The pain that we experience, even when it's overly sensitized pain is very real pain. We feel it as pain. It's not fun, but we can teach our bodies a different way forward so that we're not constantly being activated in this sensitive place.
The thing about herbs is that herbs are not ibuprofen. There are very few herbs that you can take and just be like, "I have XYZ pain, so now I'm going to take XYZ herb, and then the pain is going to be gone," similar to ibuprofen. Herbs just don't work like that, which is again cool because ibuprofen, although it can be miraculous in its ability to address pain, I'm not going to deny that, it can be really great for that, but it also causes a lot of these other problems and side effects. Instead, with herbs, we're looking at the tissues and what's happening. For example, maybe there's pain due to stagnancy and coldness, and so that might look like maybe an arthritic knee that looks swollen and is cold to the touch, or perhaps it gets worse with pain before it rains or in cold weather. And so that is a cold stagnant pain pattern. And what we can do to address that is circulatory stimulants, so things like ginger and cayenne and rosemary can all help move that stagnation, warm up the area. And then in doing so, treating that underlying cause of the pain. And so that's one way that we can look at herbs and working with pain in that way.
Another way is, when we're in chronic pain, then we become increasingly sensitized to pain, and so we can work with herbs that affect the nervous system in a way that can help reduce pain perception, and so it can desensitize the nervous system. And so those herbs, things like blue vervain, passion flower, California poppy, those can all help just relax things. And the mentality that we take them with can also be really important as well. Again, you were saying we've kind of been alluding to it, if we're focused on the pain or focused on the negativity, then that is again, continuing to wire our brain towards that sensitivity. So we want to avoid that. Then we can have herbs that help with detoxification, which I don't mean the detox fads, but if there's been systemic stagnation going on because of maybe retention or lymphatic sluggishness, then we're basically looking at how can we just support the naturally occurring detoxification patterns and help support metabolic waste being removed from the body. So through increasing diuresis or regular bowel movements or even through things like sweating.
If you imagine a stagnant pond and there's algae growing on the surface and it doesn't smell great, that's stagnancy and not how we want our bodies to be. But if we open up the dam there and allow the water to flow more freely through that, then we have a clear running brook. And so that's what we're looking for.
John Gallagher:
We use that same analogy when I practiced acupuncture for how folks can imagine a chi flow and what's going on. It's like imagine a clear running brook and that's what we're going for.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Exactly.
John Gallagher:
Versus a muddled pond or a stagnant area or a swamp. Just trying to get that.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
I have to mention one more thing before we move on because I feel irresponsible not to. Ironically, one of the best things for pain is movement. There's very few instances, although some exist, but very few instances, if somebody is in pain, it is probably directly tied to lack of appropriate movement we could say maybe. And so I have to mention that because that was ultimately something that was a huge realization for me as someone who had chronic pain for... I've had chronic pain for most of my life, and it's just an awful cycle. You're in pain, you don't want to move. By not moving, you become in more pain, and then it just goes on and on. And so finding that path forward for appropriate movement, again, not punishment movement. You're not looking to be more in pain through movement. But that can be one of the most important things for folks dealing with pain due to chronic inflammation. Again, if we're dealing with stagnation and stuff, movement is going to be ultimately our best mover, more than any herb, to be honest.
John Gallagher:
That's what I was going to say. Lifestyle, it seems that it's really about cooling inflammation, about lifestyle changes and implementing them slowly. It's not just take this XYZ herb or these capsules. It's something to integrate into your life. Because everyone's life's different. Everyone where they live is different. What they're going through is different. You have to be gentle and forgive yourself in a way just to move forward. You know what I mean? Versus just get angry at yourself for choices you made or that, "Oh, I can't do this." That mindset, can you speak to that a bit and how you coach people to move forward?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, sure, John. You're reminding me of the tortoise and the hare, which is a great fable. That has so much relevance to today. I think we often want to approach things like a hare, and we want to go fast, because we want results fast and we get excited. I'm the ultimate... I do want the hare experience, but I've had to keep reminding myself, it's really the turtle that ends up at the finish line. And that literally can take years, but it's not like you start on day one and you don't feel anything day two or anything day 10, and then suddenly on year three you're like, "Oh, now I'm different." Instead of [inaudible 00:49:52] a slow, steady forward where you're seeing improvements all the way along. Which I will say it's important for folks when they're starting on their healing journey or whatever their stage at in their healing journey is to keep track of their symptoms and number them on a scale of one to 10 on where they might be so that they can track them.
Because let's say we rate our pain levels as an eight. When they go to a seven, we don't really notice that, and then they hang out at a seven, and then we don't really notice them going to a six because it takes time. But if we're starting to notice these things over time, then we're like, "Oh, my pain levels are to five, that's actually a huge improvement since I was at eight." And maybe it took several months to get there, but it's still very impressive and very needed. So that is an important part of it, is just being realistic. And also, I think always we need to be thinking about what does bring us joy, what brings us inspiration? What are we feeling called to, and having fun with it. And so I really shy away from the restrictive mindset or anytime where we feel like, "Oh, I have to do this because somebody told me to." It's just not very fun.
Tara Ruth:
It's stressful.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
It's stressful.
Tara Ruth:
It causes inflammation.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Exactly. Exactly. So I think that's really important. And I'm not going to say that healing is always all kittens and rainbows. I have had my own very serious health problems and healing path, and I know that it's not, but I know the more that we can find the joy in it, the better it is. And on all different levels, just even from the day to day. You were saying, John, if we're beating ourselves up for slow progress or if we take a step back, like you said, Tara, that is stressful, and it doesn't actually help the healing process. And so we have to be realistic on those levels as well.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. And really finding what matches you or matches your client who you're working with. I'm thinking about this past year, I was like, "I really want more cardio exercise in my routine." So I started getting into running, which is what I've always gone to for getting more cardiovascular exercise, but I just wasn't enjoying it. I was dreading it every day that I was doing it, and it was hurting my joints. And then I took a dance class and I was like, "This is amazing. This is joyful. I'm in a social environment," and it totally changed my approach to exercise. It was something that I started looking forward to and really wanting to incorporate more into my routine. So finding those things that match you and what you're wanting to do in your lifestyle routines can be so transformative too.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
You know what I love about that story, Tara, is just the experiment in it, because we rarely know the best thing the first time. And so you're like, "Okay, I'm going to try this." You tried running, you listened. Ultimately, that didn't work for you, and you tried something else. And I think that really is such a key component of successful healing is trying something, recognizing when it doesn't work, recognizing when it does work, but then you make the next decision. And so it's not just like a no. "Oh, I thought I wanted more cardio. I tried running, it didn't work. I think I-
Tara Ruth:
Fail.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, fail. Done. I'm done with cardio.
John Gallagher:
Cardio sucks.
Tara Ruth:
Exactly. And it's all about variety too, like you were talking about with working with different herbs and different foods. And with all of this in mind, I'm thinking about your course that you have that's called cooling inflammation. And you talked a little bit earlier about herbal energetics, but I'd love to hear more about the energetics of inflammation. The word inflammation has flame in it, I think of fire. And then you chose the word cooling for cooling inflammation, and I feel like that can get lost sometimes in the conversation around inflammation if you're just reading an article and, "Oh, great, take some steroids to calm the inflammation." But yeah, can you share a little bit about energetics and inflammation in those terms?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Sure. Yeah. So I am an energetics based herbalist, so I'm always thinking of both the energetics of herbs, whether they're heating or cooling or drying or moistening, as well as the energetics of a person. If that person tends to be warmer or cooler, which we're not talking about a thermometer here, but we're just talking about does that person tend to wear a sweater on a 75 degree day or are they the person who wears a tank top when the house is 55 degrees? So there's that kind of thing. There's just basic things that we can observe. And so I'm always thinking about that and looking at this constitutional model and how we best match herbs to people.
The thing with inflammation is a lot of inflammation is caused by heat. And like you said, flame is in the... Inflamed, flame. It's right there in the title. And inflammation can definitely be hot. It could be red, swollen, aggravated, especially acute inflammation. We could have digestive inflammation that's hot. But we can also have inflammation that's cool actually. Some inflammation, especially chronic inflammation, we can have things that are stagnant. So stagnation often implies a coldness. Slow healing is a type of coldness. Cold extremities because a lack of circulation, all of that could be cool. And so that is an important thing to recognize. Not everybody experiences inflammation in the same way, and so we're always wanting to avoid that one size fits all anti-inflammatory approach. Which is every like every clickbait article out there. "These five herbs for inflammation."
One, you should definitely be working with more than five herbs for inflammation, because again, the variety and the diversity really matter. I don't mean that in an overwhelming way. But it's just never going to be like, "Take this one herb," or even, "Take these five herbs." And especially if you're going to take those five herbs, you really want to make sure those herbs are the herbs you need. Like you said, John, turmeric is not great for you. If I was like, "Oh, John, you have chronic inflammation, just take a whole bunch of turmeric. Every article on the internet says to do that." You're not going to be very happy.
John Gallagher:
Herbs don't work.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. You'd be like, "This makes my digestion worse." And I'll be like, "No, it can't be true. Turmeric's amazing. Take more."
Tara Ruth:
Look at this article.
John Gallagher:
All these memes tell me so.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah, yeah. So in an approach to inflammation, it's really important to think about energetics, both warming and cooling. Also drying and moistening. Some inflammation is due to dryness. Again, think of a sunburn or a burn from the stove or something where there's dryness associated with it, or just even dry skin that becomes then cracked. And so the issue for the inflammation there is lack of lubrication. And when somebody has that type of inflammation or it's a component of their inflammatory nature, then we pile on the turmeric or other things that are really drying, that's how we can make things worse. And so we always want to think, what is going on? What's the tissue state? Was this person more like a desert or are they more like a rain forest during monsoon season? And the approaches that we use for those different types of ecosystems are going to be very different, and with good reason. And that's how we're going to get the best results, is by really looking at people in that regard and just what's actually going on for them.
Obviously, Western medicine doesn't look at that. They aren't thinking about individual constitutions. But even just those buzzword clickbait articles are not taking that into consideration as well. So they're saying, "Take your turmeric and your black pepper and your garlic," all of these really hot, circulatory, stimulant herbs. That are amazing. I'm not saying anything bad about them, but they don't work for everybody. So we really want to think about who is this person? How is it showing up in their tissues? What is their inflammation process like? And then how do we create something that is joyful, not overwhelming, fun? Maybe that's the same as joyful, but I really want to accentuate that. I often see this with my students. They'll be drawn to something in particular and they'll tell me like, "Oh my gosh, at first sip, my body was like, 'Yes, I need this.'" And that's what we're looking for, because your body will recognize, "Yep, that's the feedback I needed. That's the thing I needed." So we're looking for that as well.
John Gallagher:
This makes me think of your school, Rosalee, on HerbswithRosalee.com. The joy, the diversity, the fun learning and everything. And I was wondering if you could tell us not just how we can learn more about cooling inflammation, the course, but also your work that you're doing right now.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Sure, absolutely. Yeah. So I have an online school. HerbswithRosalee.com is where you can find all of the information. Everything is from an energetics place. So cooling inflammation, of course, we're looking very specifically at this window. And this course is really ideal for people who are health focused and they're saying, "I have these health problems. I'm not looking for the herb for arthritis or the herb for cardiovascular disease," but looking for the lifestyle and habits and overall approach so that you can actually get to the root cause of things and move beyond that symptom based approach. And so this is ideal for people who are interested in their own personal health. And we look at it, again, through all different sorts of methodologies and lenses.
I know we were talking about doing one thing at a time, and that's actually how the course is set up, is we have a class and then I have invitations and people choose one invitation for that week of something that they want to try. And then you can share about it. Like, "Oh, I tried the protein for breakfast invitation this week, and here's how I felt." And we get to hear this from all sorts of different folks. There's maybe eight invitations per week, and you choose one. Obviously, you can go back and choose as many as you want, but the idea really is to choose one that you're drawn to, experience it, share about it, and then choose, like Tara was saying... It's like with the running versus dancing, you'd be like, "Oh yeah, this is a keeper. This is really making a difference in my life." Or, "That was not really exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to tweak it to move more like this." And so we go through that and we look at all the different body systems. And so we'll spend a week looking at the nervous system or a week looking at digestion, while keeping in mind that they're all connected. That's the trick, is that nothing is separate in our bodies. But we break it apart in a way just to make it a more approachable way of doing it.
So that's cooling inflammation. We also have a course on herbal energetics. It's more specific for learning the energetics and constitutional model of herbal medicine. So again, we can move beyond taking this herb for that thing. And we have medicine making and ways that we can bring herbs into our lives. Again, that's why I like that. To me, it's not fun to have tons of bottles of supplements and even massive amounts of tinctures. It's more about like, "Oh, how can I enjoy herbs as a part of my everyday life so that it feels fun and easy and it just becomes the way I live?"
John Gallagher:
Inspiring. It also brings a new creative outlet to folks. And that in itself is an art. And I think anytime we bring in a new art to our lives, we're learning, we're expressing ourselves. And that's a big part of it too, right?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. Absolutely. It's fun to see what people come up with. I have recipes [inaudible 01:01:30] get people started and then someone says, "Oh, I tweaked this recipe," or, "Oh, this recipe made me think of doing this." And I love to see that because it has people really figuring out what works for them in ways that are joyful and fun.
John Gallagher:
See, there's a reason why we've been working together for a couple of decades now, right?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Absolutely.
John Gallagher:
Having fun and bringing this joy to folks' lives. Rosalee, it's an honor to have you here. We used to do webinars and things all the time. And of course, we do a little less together now, but it doesn't mean that we're not still talking and working with each other and doing fun stuff. It's a joy for me to be friends with you, you being part of my family all these years, and how much you've brought to not just my family but to learning herbs and to all of our listeners and folks who are an herb mentor. I don't want to let you go. What else can we talk about?
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Let's see. We talked about Tori. We talked about herbs.
John Gallagher:
I hate saying goodbye.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
Yeah. Well, it's great to be here, John. Yeah. We have a deep history for sure. And yeah, it's always a pleasure to hang out and chat and all the different ways that we get to do that. And Tara, it's been great to hang out with you too.
Tara Ruth:
You too. Thank you so much, Rosalee.
Rosalee de la Forêt:
No, thank you.
John Gallagher:
Everybody stick around for an herb note.
Tara Ruth:
Welcome to Herb Notes. I'm Tara Ruth. Let's stop and smell the roses. Shall we? Known for their luxurious scent and heartwarming blooms, roses like Rosa Multiflora and Rosa Rugosa and many other species are a balm for the soul. Let's dive into three key benefits of rose.
One, rose for the heart. It's no secret that roses have a deep connection with the heart. The iconic bouquet of roses symbolizes love and romance. Roses make up the majority of flowers sold on Valentine's Day. And every year millions of roses are purchased on the special day to convey adoration and commitment. As an herb, rose has a long history of usage for the heart, supporting folks through times of grief and heartbreak, while also strengthening the physical heart. One of my favorite ways to enjoy the uplifting effects of rose is in a rose petal tea or a rose petal infused honey. Two, rose for skin health. Rose petals are a gentle astringent and anti-inflammatory. In topical applications like rose water or rose petal infused oil, rose can help nourish and soothe sensitive and irritated skin. Three, rose for pain. The high levels of bioflavonoids and antioxidants and roses allows rose to help modulate inflammation in the body. When there's inflammation fueled pain in the body, working with rose can help decrease the pain.
And just a few notes of caution when working with rose. When you're working with roses, you want to make sure that you're using flowers that haven't been sprayed with pesticides, and most florist's roses have been sprayed. Another thing to keep in mind when working with rose is that pure rose essential oil is super expensive. So most of the reasonably priced, commercially available rose essential oil is actually rose essential oil that's diluted in a carrier oil. And this is noted on the packaging. However, if you come across a product that is far below market price and claims to be pure rose essential oil, this product is probably diluted or adulterated.
Want to learn more about the benefits of other common herbs? Visit Herbnotes.cards to grab a deck of our top 12 herb notes. You'll learn all about herbs like elderberry, chamomile, and more. This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch you next time.
John Gallagher:
Herb Mentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably well crafted podcasts. Written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher. Can you do us a quick favor? Look up Herb Mentor Radio on your favorite podcast app like Apple Podcasts or Spotify and rate and review us. We'd really appreciate it. Also, visit Herbmentorradio.com to find out how you can be part of Herb Mentor, which is a site you must see to believe. Herb Mentor Radio is a production of LearningHerbs.com LLC, all rights reserved. Thank you very, very, very much for listening.
