Anna Rosa:
I also very much like to do things in a simple way. So what I found, to my utter joy, I found nettle and chamomile in the market. So I just decided to do anything with nettle and chamomile, and it's working extremely well, I'm telling you. I'm not joking. I'm seriously doing so much with two herbs. You wouldn't actually believe it.
John Gallagher:
You are listening to HerbMentor Radio by LearningHerbs. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. Today we're chatting with Anna Rosa. Anna Rosa is an Icelandic herbalist, educator, medicine maker, and author of "Icelandic Herbs and Their Medicinal Uses." With over 30 years of experience, she recently founded Helping Herbs, an organization that teaches herbalism to women and refugee camps in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq. You can find out more about this project at helpingherbs.org.
John Gallagher:
Welcome, Anna Rosa. Thank you so much for joining us.
Anna Rosa:
Well, thank you for having me.
John Gallagher:
So are you talking to us all the way from Iceland?
Anna Rosa:
I am indeed. Just in the back end of the newest eruption here.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
We've got a volcanic eruption that started yesterday.
John Gallagher:
Does that help with the spring growth of the wild herbs that you'll be harvesting this spring?
Anna Rosa:
God, no, no. Quite the opposite. It kills them basically.
John Gallagher:
Well, I don't know. I was just thinking maybe the soil and it just kind of like new growth will happen eventually.
Anna Rosa:
Eventually, yes, but not next summer kind of thing. Yeah, eventually it might actually have some good influence, but it's destructive more than anything else.
John Gallagher:
Well, some of our listeners might know Anna Rosa from her work on HerbMentor in the past. She was an active part of our forum there, and there's some great plant video plant walks with us. It's just so great to finally have you on with us here today.
Anna Rosa:
Thank you.
John Gallagher:
But what's really cool is we want to talk about this project that you've been working on.
Anna Rosa:
Mm-hmm.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, I think, Tara, I'm going to have you take it away from here. This is an amazing project. We'll dive right in and start talking about it.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Well, you reached out to us in late 2023 to share with us about the work you're doing with this organization Helping Herbs, and I would just love to hear more about what exactly is Helping Herbs and what inspired you to start this organization.
Anna Rosa:
Right. So the pre-story is that for many years I was kind of just following the refugee crisis and supporting a number of individual organizations, nonprofit organizations who are empowering refugees. So I did that for quite a few years and kind of learn more and more and to follow the news more and more. In the end, I simply thought, well, what can I do directly? I kind of felt the need to actually go and use what I have accumulated in knowledge, and could that be used to empowering refugees? So that's how I really had the idea. And then I found some local organization in Kurdistan, in Iraq. I'm not sure, Iraq, I think you pronounce it Iraq, right?
John Gallagher:
Yeah, Iraq. Sure.
Anna Rosa:
Iraq. Okay. Yeah. So I decided to go out there in March last year and to actually see if the women in the refugee camps were into this idea. Before I started the organization Helping Herbs, I really wanted to know what kind of reception I would get and what's their actual interest in learning about making herbal products. Because my idea was to teach them to make herbal products for their own use, but also so they could make some income. So I went there and spent some weeks teaching in three refugee camps, there were about 20 there, and there was an overwhelming positive response. They were absolutely into it, and it was absolutely fantastic how enthusiastic they were about it. So I came home and thought straight away, well, I'm not turning back on this. I'll definitely have to set up an organization and continue doing this. So that's kind of the start.
John Gallagher:
What did you see that inspired you to do this? At what point were you like, "I really need to help"? Was it something like in the news? Or did you have a friend or visit or-
Anna Rosa:
I was kind of following social media and looking at a lot of photos, and there was this one photographer who took this fabulous photos of refugees only. He started his own organization, and then that was kind of the inspiration for me as well. If he could do it, I could do it kind of thing. So I mean, why shouldn't I do something actually directly, not just supporting the others, because I've been teaching for such a long time and I know how much people enjoy learning to make herbal medicine. So I thought, well, shouldn't those women have the same opportunity as the others? That was kind of what I thought.
John Gallagher:
Then it's like, okay, you want to do this, and I mean, I wouldn't even know where to start as far as-
Anna Rosa:
I didn't.
John Gallagher:
... I got to go, I want to come to Iraq.
Anna Rosa:
I Googled. I actually just Googled a lot.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
That's literally how I did it. I found the organization into the local organization on social media, sent them an email, and they kindly replied. And I was kind of surprised.
Tara Ruth:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
And then I Googled, is it safe to go to Iraq? And everybody told me it was not.
John Gallagher:
Okay.
Anna Rosa:
And then I Googled, is it safe to go to Kurdistan in Iraq? And that was actually a lot safer. So that's when I started to allow myself to see that I could actually go and do this. So I just went. That's literally how it happened.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Tara Ruth:
What was the first class that you taught there?
Anna Rosa:
Ointment. Ointment for absolutely, well, all-purpose ointment. Like we know with the herbs, we make all kinds of ointments for ... I just make one ointment for everything. I am into simple things, you know?
John Gallagher:
Mm-hmm.
Anna Rosa:
So I just taught only ointment in the first few classes I did because I kind of thought that's a good basic one to start with.
John Gallagher:
What herbs were in the ointment? Were you using local? Did you take your recipe and say, "Okay, we're going to make this with plants I'm finding growing in the wild here"? Were they similar plants that you're used to using at home, typical garden herbs that were easy to grow? What kind of ointment?
Anna Rosa:
Yeah. Yeah, this is a good question because this is a huge challenge, of course. So I knew from the start that I would have to have this completely sustainable because the women would have to be able to access the herbs themselves. I mean, I couldn't be bringing or importing or doing anything like that. So I just went to the bazaar, to the markets, and started trying to identify the herbs I could find there. And there are lots of spices, not so easy to identify other herbs just like that. There are lots of languages too to make it more complicated. And plus, I live in Iceland and I don't have a huge flora. I'm not working with a lot of herbs, so I wouldn't recognize a lot of the herbs you're working with in the States anyway, for example. So that's a drawback for me, but a nice challenge too. And I quite like challenges.
I also very much like to do things in a simple way. So what I found, to my utter joy, I found nettle and chamomile in the market. So I just decided to do anything with nettle and chamomile, and it's working extremely well, I'm telling you. I'm not joking. I'm seriously doing so much with two herbs. You wouldn't actually believe it.
John Gallagher:
Wow. And the nettle, is this something always available at the market, or people going out and harvesting?
Anna Rosa:
It is. The women are harvesting it. So in the market, you can buy fair amount of herbs coming from Turkey, but they're also local women who are actually harvesting themselves. So I've made friends with them because I like to support them rather. These are old ladies who really need the income as well, and they are selling me nettle. Chamomile is fairly easily accessible there. And then I have lots of spices too, of course. But for the ointment, I just started off making up a recipe with chamomile and nettle, neither of which I'd ever made into ointment before in Iceland, but absolutely worked, no problem at all.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. What have you noticed with the ointment working, or what have been some of the reactions that people have had to working with with these plants?
Anna Rosa:
Yeah, we've had a lot of reaction with dry skin and eczema. Children with eczema, we've had a lot of stories of that being basically healed or at least drastically getting better by using the ointment. There are a lot of gas burns there, so there are a lot of burns to treat, and wounds and cracked feet because of people don't have shoes necessarily. There is cold and there's no heat there. There's all kinds of situation we are not used to here in the western world. So the ointment is doing fabulously for literally anything you can think of, I would say, like ointments usually do from herbs.
John Gallagher:
What oil base or-
Anna Rosa:
Well, that's the other thing. I cannot use anything fancy because they have to be able to buy it. So I'm just using the cheapest vegetable oil I can find, the absolute cheapest one. And that works wonders too. I mean, I would prefer to use organic olive oil like I do in my own practice and own company in Iceland, but that's just out of the question. So you use what you can where you are and sort of think on your feet the whole time. And it's working. It really is.
Tara Ruth:
I love what you're bringing in this piece of adaptability and accessibility too, and getting really clear on tailoring your medicine to what's available on hand and what will be sustainable for folks to be able to keep working with. Yeah, it's really beautiful to be holding those both in this process.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. I mean, the whole idea of thinking on your feet and using what you have is just, it's great skill for herbalists, people learning about herbal remedies to ... Okay, you follow this recipe to start out, but it's like, what else could you use? Or whatever. There's no exact rules.
Anna Rosa:
Exactly. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Also in the western world, we are very used to just being able to either pick or order to what we like, but I don't have that luxury there at all. I mean, I have huge problem just finding jars. I mean, literally that has been such a problem. And little bottles for cough syrup, I can't even find them yet. So we're using jars for that. So it's all kind of those issues you would never think of. So you have to be able to think on your feet the whole time and just accept that, just go along with it. And it always sorts itself out in the end, but you have to be okay with it, basically. It's totally different from what I'm used to doing here in Iceland.
Tara Ruth:
In your own practice, I'm thinking about how you ... You studied in Britain, I think.
Anna Rosa:
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Tara Ruth:
And then you also know so much about herbalism specifically within Iceland, and I'm curious how you marry those two worlds together as well. And then you're talking about you're in Kurdistan and there's different herbs that are available. So yeah, can you speak a little bit to how you navigate that balance in your own herbal practice too?
Anna Rosa:
Well, you mean as I do it in the refugee camps you mean? Or in the practice here in Iceland?
Tara Ruth:
I guess in the refugee camps and what kind of herbalism you're bringing to the table there with your-
Anna Rosa:
That's the thing, I'm just making it up as I go along there. I can't really bring in any kind of philosophy. I mean, I am, of course, well versed in what I learned in Britain and it's different than the states and so forth, but I can't afford to think like that even, like we usually do, and I'm used to it too. My only thing is, what is available, how can I use it? So I just have to go along with what is there. For example, before I went, I was doing all kinds of preparation and to have some recipes and so on, and I used a lot of fresh ginger in it, for example. And then I came there and there was no fresh ginger in the camps, but there were dried ginger so I could use that.
So it's that kind of thing. You just have to change. You have all kinds of fixed ideas in your mind. You just have to throw them all out of the window basically and go along with it as it is. You have to kind of have the nerve for it too. And then you're in your class and you cannot have sort of perceived ideas of how you're going to do things, really. But that's what I figured out more than anything. I kind of knew it before I went for the first time, but maybe not how much I would have to use that kind of flexibility. And I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It's a very good lesson to learn too for us.
John Gallagher:
But isn't that culturally part of the Icelandic heritage too, figuring out use what you got and what you got here?
Anna Rosa:
Yes, it is. And also because for the last decade, so many herbs have been banned here, and so I've had to really use what I've got instead of just ordering whatever I like. So yes, that is definitely a part of the way I've practiced anyway, so that is helpful, definitely.
John Gallagher:
What I'm wondering is, some of the women you're working with must have their own cultural herbal knowledge that they're bringing to the table.
Anna Rosa:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Gallagher:
So what are some things you've learned from them? And I'm curious, you have what you're bringing and they have, how's that collaboration? That's what I'm curious about.
Anna Rosa:
Yes. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I can't remember any very good examples at the moment. But for example, one of the camps is predominantly only Syrian refugees who are more educated than many of the others, and they have more herbal tradition. So they often tell me what they are using rosemary for. Rosemary is one of the herbs that can get there, for example. I use that a lot too for pain. So they will tell me maybe a different use of rosemary. I simply can't remember an example. But a number of times ... We write it all down, we've got it all down. So they will tell me some specific samples I hadn't thought about or not even heard about maybe.
So there is always an exchange, and I encourage exchange a lot. But it depends a lot on where they're from and the educational status or however you say that. Because in one of the camps is Yazidis, which is internally displaced. They are Iraqis, but different religion and they're quite often illiterate. They come from the countryside, and they don't have the same herbal knowledge and they don't have the same confidence. So one of the Syrian women, so one of the things I have been learning is to be very careful in encouraging them to have the confidence. Because one of the things I learned when I came back, I went back for a month now in September, and then I met again the women I had been teaching from the Yazidis, the Yazidi women, I had been teaching them in March. So I asked them, "Have you been doing some ointment? Haven't you been making some?" Well, some of them I knew couldn't maybe afford the ingredients, that kind of thing, but they always kind of looked at me and then they just said, "Well, we don't think we can do it as well as you."
So that was their thinking, and I hadn't thought of it like that. So I just started from scratch again, as in. So part of my role is giving them the confidence, not just teaching the herbs, but actually the confidence that they can do it too. Because they don't have education. They've got all kinds of traumatic history. They just simply might not have the confidence to do anything like this. So that is a huge role I have as well, to actually give them the confidence that they can do it too, which is hugely important, of course.
John Gallagher:
Is part of what you're doing with some herbs and helping them, the women you're working with as well, to help them treat trauma?
Anna Rosa:
No, no, I'm not. Well, the thing, there are psychologists working in some of the camps who are treating the trauma.
John Gallagher:
Okay. I see.
Anna Rosa:
But the thing is, I'm not allowed to treat at all, and I'm already running up against the rules. We have been giving them teas and cough syrups, and that has been stopped because that's internal and we have to apply to the health authorities and go through the whole application of it, which we will do and we are doing, but I have to be very careful of not treating. But the thing is, in the workshops, when we are teaching ointments or something else, they're constantly asking me for recipes. So I'm just making up recipes as I go along. And a lot of them have chamomile and nettle in it.
Tara Ruth:
I wonder why...
Anna Rosa:
Because that's what I have. So any kind of ailment that comes up usually gets prescribed chamomile and nettle because it's also a very safe thing to prescribe for most things. I'm not allowed to take cases, I'm not allowed to treat, but I still want to give them an option. I think that's a better thing than not giving them anything. And they don't have an option. They don't have doctors, or if they're there, they're not very good. That's for sure. Because I mean, I quiz about this too, and the doctors who are working there are the ones who are not good because you don't earn any money there.
That's how it was explained to me, that you wouldn't get any good health system there because people are not being paid enough. So they really don't have an option. So that's why I think it's better to give them a recipe with nettle and chamomile and hope for the best. At least you're not doing damage. I'm careful of telling them not to go off drugs and things like that, insulin dependence, that kind of thing. I just cross my fingers, and in quite a lot of the cases it's actually working, just simple teas like that.
Tara Ruth:
Hi, John.
John Gallagher:
Hello, Tara.
Tara Ruth:
Hearing Anna Rosa talk so much about adaptability and bioregional herbalism really makes me think a lot about our new course on HerbMentor.
John Gallagher:
Folk Medicine.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. Folk Medicine: Changing the Narrative with Shereel Washington.
John Gallagher:
And why does it make you think of it?
Tara Ruth:
In this course, well, I had the great honor of getting to be in the recording room while Shereel was recording this series with us. And it was so amazing because I was just getting to learn, for the days that we were in the recording studio, all about what folk medicine is and some of the key principles of folk medicine. Some of the important things that Shereel really emphasized was accessibility and adaptability, making medicine with what's around you, what's accessible to you.
John Gallagher:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I mean even where you get your bottles, which herbs you're using, oils you're using, container, I mean, Shereel just turned that on its head of what I've been thinking of. So yeah, it definitely reminded me of that course as well, talking Anna Rosa here today.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, absolutely. One of the episodes even, it's called The Adaptable Herbalist: How to Make Herbal Medicine Anywhere, and Shereel brings just so much embodied wisdom to this episode. And then also really just gives a simple framework for how to be an adaptable herbalist. It's one thing to say it, but how do you actually do it? It was so helpful just to listen to Shereel.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely.
Tara Ruth:
I was like, I could do this too.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that is now playing, it's a five-audio. So when we say course, it's like a podcast series really, right?
Tara Ruth:
Mm-hmm.
John Gallagher:
And that is on HerbMentor.
Tara Ruth:
Exactly.
John Gallagher:
Something else on HerbMentor that I was thinking about as well is the fact that in our video plant walks area, we actually have Anna Rosa giving a tour of Icelandic plants, these little herb plant walks, a few minutes each, but it's really cool to see her out there. And Rosalee de la Foret went and visited her in Iceland once and followed her around with a camera and took us some great video.
Tara Ruth:
The plant walks that we have on HerbMentor are one of my favorite features because I love getting to see up close videos of plants that I might not have seen in person before. And then to get to see them in their natural habitat, get to see what other plants grow around these plants, and just to see how they all interact with each other. It's really powerful.
John Gallagher:
You could watch an herb from the three different herbalists and what are they saying about it.
Tara Ruth:
Right.
John Gallagher:
I also think of 7Song who has a course on there called Herb First Aid, which people are inspired to help people out in situations where they really need help and there's not a lot of resources. That course is helpful for that. There's like 40 something or more videos with 7Song talking about Herb First Aid. So yeah, I think it's somewhere, check out HerbMentor. And how can they do that?
Tara Ruth:
Yes, they can go to herbmentorradio.com.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, because there's a little discount there for you if you're interested in HerbMentor. Yeah, pretty much all you need to know.
Tara Ruth:
All you need to know. We like to keep it simple.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's time to get back to Anna Rosa. This is just such an inspiring conversation.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited to hear more.
John Gallagher:
I guess I'm wondering when you first arrived there, because you're talking about there's an organization that's running everything and certain things. When you first arrived, what was your impression when you got there? What was the ... I just can't imagine being in this spot. Oh gosh, it's just-
Anna Rosa:
It's a very different country, of course. But my first impression was extreme hospitality. I was so kindly received, you wouldn't believe it. And it actually started at the airport. So this is an international airport, and I've been to many international airports, and I arrived very early in the morning and the cash exchange hadn't opened, and I wanted to buy some water. The women at the shop just looked at me, "Here, I'm going to give it to you. I mean, you don't have the cash, I'm giving it to you." I've never been treated like that in any international airport in the world. And it continued after that. They literally are constantly trying to give you everything wherever you go. People are so kind and so hospitable. And also, all the people I've been working with in the organization, I have the same experience. They've all been extremely hospitable and nice. So I've been very, very lucky.
Tara Ruth:
One of the women that you work with I was reading about is a local woman named Eman who's training to be a clinical herbalist.
Anna Rosa:
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Tara Ruth:
She's one of your teaching collaborators. Can you tell us a little bit about her and how you two met?
Anna Rosa:
Yes. Well, she was my translator. So she was at the time working for the Kurdish organization. They lent her to me as a translator because obviously I don't speak the language or any of the languages there, so I have to translate it the whole time. And she turned out to be a fabulous translator. She has a degree in English, so it was really easy communicating, but she also was very interested in the herbs. So I arranged that she would enroll in an online herbal school after I left. So she started studying, and she took it really seriously and has been studying ever since clinical herbalism. I mean, it was unbelievable luck basically. Plus she's very, very good at what she does. She's like a born teacher and she's been teaching to the women for a long time anyway in the camp, so she knows it. She's not from the refugee camp, she's from the village.
So when I saw I would be going twice per year, I thought I need a translator every time and I can't ask them to lend them to me all the time, so I need to organize this myself. And then I thought, I mean, it's very hard to get a good translator just like that when you need it, so what about if I just hire her to continue teaching? So she's teaching every week now and doing a wonderful job of it. I'm training her as well as a herbalist, so we have lots of Zoom session. All the questions that come up, we take care of it together. She's learning loads by just doing the courses. So I am so fortunate to be able to hire her, and she's really learning to be ... She's going to qualify as a clinical herbalist and basically be in charge of the whole operation. She already is.
John Gallagher:
Oh.
Anna Rosa:
So having her there just sort of opened up all kinds of other possibilities. So now we are kind of dreaming about opening up a clinic. We would like to teach women more. There are also five other women already enrolled in an online course in the refugee camps who are really keen on learning more and being able to use it later. So we are training as much as we can along the way. It's difficult because most of them don't speak English, but some of the young ones do. For example, one of the older ones doesn't speak English, but she decided her brother would translate for her. So she's studying herbal medicine and her brother is translating every video for her. Just think of that. That's dedication, isn't it? Huh?
John Gallagher:
How are you recording the information that you are teaching and sharing? Is Eman helping, for example, to create monographs in the local languages and databases?
Anna Rosa:
No. We are a bit more modern than monographs, actually. We use WhatsApp groups.
Tara Ruth:
There we go.
Anna Rosa:
That's because they are actually very common there. And a lot of the women in the refugee council, most of them belong to WhatsApp groups. So we created WhatsApp groups for each camp and we put all the information there. They can ask question and question unrelated to class as well. It doesn't have to be because we were teaching this. So we have a continuing questioning and answering format there. We will be doing monographs and leaflets later on as well. And we are documenting very well everything we do. And luckily, Eman is very organized like that. Because we have those plans of creating a little herbal school as well, because then we could teach in their language, you're not dependent on speaking English, so you could really teach a lot more in the future. So yes, we are documenting highly, basically.
Tara Ruth:
I mean, this is so inspiring and I'm so curious.
Anna Rosa:
I think the WhatsApp groups is such a good idea. I love that. And I belong to them. I actually don't understand anything, but I can ask Eman if I really need it, but I can see the activity. So somebody who doesn't read or write that well will see the recipe there and get the grandchild to translate it. Do you see what I mean? So it's always there for them. It doesn't get lost at all. It's just on the phone. It's fabulous.
John Gallagher:
Do you always go through Eman or do you sometimes use Google Translate on your own and paste it in?
Anna Rosa:
No, no, I always go through Eman because it's number of languages. It's not just one. So I couldn't even do it, you see. I mean, at least three main ones basically, so no. So I don't do anything online. But I can join the class now. I haven't done it yet, but we are thinking of it. So I can literally Zoom in into her teaching in the refugee camps every week if I want to and take part in it. That's another option I have now with her there.
John Gallagher:
Right.
Tara Ruth:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
And the women know me by now because I was teaching 30 classes in a month when I was there last time. Yeah, we've taught 525 women so far last year, which is quite a lot for a first year only going twice. You know?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, my gosh. You've also said that, or seeing on your site, that some women have expressed interest in starting their own herbal products businesses, and this is one of your goals too. Can you talk a little bit about this and how you support their entrepreneurship?
Anna Rosa:
Yes. So there are various ways to do that, but for example, one of them has already started to sell some hair oil and she's advertising it on Instagram. And I've been guiding her on "You cannot do this. You can't do this" kind of thing because I see what she's doing. But no, the whole goal is to make them independent. That's the whole goal of this, that those who are interested can earn their own income by setting up companies and selling. We need to go through some business training with the local organization. We don't have that opportunity at the moment, but hopefully we will have this year. And then there is a rigmarole of applying for license and stuff like that. So we'll assist with all of this. And then eventually the local organization buys spaces for them. They have somebody learning to sew a tailor, for example. She will have her own shop because she will get supported of actually setting it up. So I would like to see a herbal apothecary in all the refugee camps eventually. Wouldn't that be just beautiful, huh?
John Gallagher:
That would be inspiring too for other women to find out about like, "Oh, can I make this too? Oh, can I become an herbalist in this camp?"
Anna Rosa:
Yeah, or I can just make it for my children all the time, what I need, instead of buying it because then it's cheaper. So that's the whole thing, and that's why we freely give out, of course, all recipes. And the thing is, we are making what they want. So when I went the first time, I started off with ointment, and I quickly found out that they wanted some remedy for pain because all of them, or so many of them, are in a lot of, not just a lot of physical pain and of course mental pain, but the physical pain was what they were asking for.
So I made up an oil for pain when I went in September, which has been hugely popular. We have had quite a number of unbelievable success stories with that. It's basically based on rosemary and ginger and pepper, black pepper, which is what I could find in the market. And I'd never done that kind of pain oil before with those. You don't have essential oils, you see, so I had to make it up, infused oils. I'd never done that before in my life, and it really, really worked. And they're over the moon with having some pain oil. They are telling me what they want to do. It's not that I'm imposing it or suggesting, it's just like, "We need something for pain. What have you got?" And I make something up because I'm fairly adventurous in making things up.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
Let's put it that way.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. So speaking of adventurous, it was also adventure to create an organization around what you're doing because first you found out, you're inspired to help and you went to help and you're doing this and you're helping local folks, but then you're realizing, "Hey, I'm going to help Eman. I want to help ..." I also read about Bashar.
Anna Rosa:
Yes, our driver.
John Gallagher:
And needing help for outside help too. So can you talk a little bit about that realization, what had you start helpingherbs.org and what your goal is with that and what kind of help you need? Just share how people can help you. Whatever comes to mind.
Anna Rosa:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I've got a lot of my mind on that. So the thing is I am extremely independent. I've always been like that. So my initial idea was always that I would just do this on my own. I was just going to use the profit from my skincare company and just set it up and just use my savings and so on. For sure, I could just manage it like that. That was my initial idea. And then I quickly found out in September that that wouldn't work at all because I already have responsibility of two salaries and ingredients and so on, and I simply am not making that much profit. So I kind of had to learn that now you just have to start begging for money basically, which was a totally new phase for me because I've always been so independent and never depend on anyone for finances. That's like, you don't do that in Iceland in general.
So I'm in the learning process of learning to ask people for help basically. And people have been extremely kind here in Iceland. I'm approaching herbal companies. The thing is, if I'm going to make all those dreams come through, I need a lot. I need a lot to be able to set up clinic and just have it stable. So I'm really looking towards company support, funds and things like that, but there are no funds in Iceland. That's a slight problem I have, like if I was in UK or Germany or something, or if I actually knew how to apply for funds, which I don't. The thing is I could learn that, but that would take up all my time. So if there are any fundraisers out there who want to help me, please contact me. Because yes, I could learn it, but then I wouldn't be teaching and helping Eman and then training. So I really have to concentrate on what I'm good at.
So I need help with fundraising without a question. But just a small amount every month would be enormous help. If fair amount of people did that, that would be such a help. $5 per month, that kind of thing, that would be enormous help. I've had unbelievably kind old people in Iceland approaching me, giving me money, that kind of thing, people I don't know at all. So people are very generous, but at the same time I'm used to marketing products, and that's quite hard. And this is five times harder, I would say, something like that.
John Gallagher:
But sharing the story that you're sharing is, I think people are going to really connect with this and want to help.
Anna Rosa:
I know, they do.
John Gallagher:
And they understand that, culturally and all. I know it's a translation thing, but it's not necessarily looking at it as begging, more just-
Anna Rosa:
That's a translation thing. Yes.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, I know.
Anna Rosa:
Thanks.
John Gallagher:
But I mean I think it's raising tremendous awareness and I think it's also for people who are herbalists, it's helping them see other ways to be herbalists and also inspire people to do similar things. Not maybe one thing to go all the way to Iraq, but there are people in their neighborhoods that can do things just to realize there's people to help everywhere.
Anna Rosa:
Yes, exactly. I think that is very important too, that people actually realize you can't do things. It's not that you can't do things. I mean, yes, I take it to the extremes because that's me and I get wacky ideas compared to many, I know I do, but then I actually go forward and do it. That's the only thing because I've learned if you just ... I mean this is fearful thing to do too. I mean, my partner, for example, was not supporting this at all, that I would go to Iraq to the refugee camps and start working.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, yeah.
Anna Rosa:
So it's not like I have lots of emotional support always, but you just kind of have to walk through that fear because it's like you have a mission in that sense, like a calling, just not a religious one. That is how it feels to me. And I just have to follow the heart basically. And if you do that and actually walk through the fear, you can actually do a lot of things. And people forget this. People have been so conditioned to think that they actually can't do anything to change things, but that's not true.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Anna Rosa:
Yeah, it's really not true actually. And also, the other thing, which has been kind of imprinted, is that altruism or being good and helping people is not a good thing. This is kind of a society thing by now too. "Oh, you have to check your ego." I actually read quite a lot of research on, what is it called, altruism, and when you do this thing just to sort of check my own ego. Was I just doing this to be fabulous? But we have also been conditioned to believe we don't have that, but we do. That is the other thing. So anybody can be kind and do good things really, I think.
Tara Ruth:
I really like how you started too with to see, what would this be like if I did this, would this resonate with people? It started as a question and then you collected more and more information and heard more and more positive feedback from people, and then people bought in locally, and then it's grown organically from there. The demand has grown because you asked, with a lot of humility too, you asked a question of, is this something that people are interested in? And I think that's so important too and a really beautiful way to approach this work.
Anna Rosa:
It was extremely important for me to do it because I didn't want to have the responsibility of start collecting money from people and then it didn't come through. That just wasn't on for me. I knew I was going in the right direction, but I had to have the absolute confidence that they wanted it. And it was just so obvious that they really wanted to learn and it was so beautiful to see that. And I'm having such a good time with them too. We are laughing a lot, a lot of children running around. It's not just all trauma and sadness, although that is in the background always. But I'm making friends there. I'm eating lunch with them and I'm learning a lot.
Can I tell you one story? You have to learn your own prejudice as well. So we all have lots of prejudice and all of that internalized. So I'll tell you one of mine, which I thought was quite funny. So my front page girl, as I called her Bahar, who has a testimonial on my front page, is a Yazidi, and she looks extremely traditional. We hit on the minute we met kind of thing. She invited me to her home to have some tea with her family. So off I went.
And then this very, very traditional looking woman kind of looks at me and sort of looks at me quite careful, and then she says, "How many times per week do you go to the gym, Anna Rosa?" I was just like, "I never go to gym." She was like, "I go three times. I think that's important." My prejudice went out of the window there. She was so traditional looking, I could never imagine that she was going to the gym. You see what I mean? And then she looked at me again, having good fun with this, she looked at me again, she said, "How many WhatsApp groups are you belonging to?" I belong to 14. And I hadn't even imagined her with a phone. So it's really healthy to sort of face your own prejudice like that, I think. And plus, she was just so funny.
John Gallagher:
And have conversations with people and find out more about them.
Anna Rosa:
And drink tea with them. Exactly.
John Gallagher:
Drink tea.
Anna Rosa:
Yeah. And I'm having such a good time. In September I went again, I met all of them again, they were coming to my second and third workshops, and it was just so nice. And they were coming again, really enthusiastic about learning more.
Tara Ruth:
I'm so curious, Anna Rosa, I'm curious how your herbal adventure started in life. I know this is going way back, but I'm like, how did you have such an adventurous spirit? And I'm curious how you got interested in herbs. Was it in your childhood? Was it later in life?
Anna Rosa:
Yeah, that's another story. So I have this tendency, quite a great tendency to have callings in life, like I said before. So when I was 21, at that time, in my youth, there wasn't such emphasizes on you have to have a study. So I was just hanging around and working and doing things and not bothered at all going to university until I read in the paper, the newspaper, that you could actually start to be a herbalist. I've never heard about that before, that you could do that. And the minute I read the article, I knew with the absolute confidence that I was going to be a herbalist. And off I went. I think it was like four months. And then I moved to England, got loans, and decided studying and never looked back, but it was like instant recognition.
So I'm very, very lucky and fortunate in the sense that I haven't had to look for purpose in life. It just came to me like that. It was just so obvious. And that's a fortunate thing to have. It feels like this is my second calling now with the refugees and it feels like I'll be doing that for the rest of my life. I'm just using the herbs there too. But it's a shift. It's like that's the second half of my life. I'll be doing this kind of work. I've kind of taught enough in Iceland. That's how I think of it.
John Gallagher:
Part of, for me, if I feel like I'm on the path and going in the right directions, things kind of work out and those coincidences happen.
Anna Rosa:
I know.
John Gallagher:
It sounds like when you talk about meeting Eman and Bashar and putting it and this all happening, it's like, wow.
Anna Rosa:
I know. I know. It's so-
John Gallagher:
How many things do we try in life that don't work? And then some things were like, "Oh, let's just try this," and like, "Oh." And then you have to go surfing to figure it out.
Anna Rosa:
I recognize this so well because actually ... And that's why maybe I was saying this, I'm learning to beg for money because for me it's almost to learn, it's not the begging, it's actually opening up, that this is an okay path for me to go down now as well. It's the same thing. And like you say, things usually sync. Yeah. So things usually come when they're meant to as well. That's my experience. But you have to do the work. You have to do all the hard work.
John Gallagher:
That's the part.
Anna Rosa:
Let's not forget that one. You don't sync it at all, in my opinion, you have to do all the work.
John Gallagher:
It's almost like you have a good idea and you have to just go do it because who else is going to do it, right?
Anna Rosa:
Well, that's the thing. I don't think anyone has done this before in the whole world. I've never heard of anyone working in refugee camps with herbs. And I've been looking and looking for it. I mean, there have been people working with refugees in France, for example, and in other places, but not in the actual camps. The thing is, the women don't have anything. They're not earning a cent. People think there are lots of international organization just handing out money, but where I'm working, it's not like that. So I was like, how do they live? And then the explanation I got was, well, some of them have husbands and they can go outside of the camp and work construction work, and then they get money. And then the woman next door who has six children and the husband died, because most of the husband have died, six dependent on that neighbor for her family. She has a family, a lot of them have only half families left because so many people have died around them. This is refugees, this is war.
And the ISIS genocide of the Yazidis happened only, what is it, 10 years ago this year. This is not back in the old days, this is only 10 years ago. All that trauma happened that there was a genocide of the cities I'm working with. So it's fresh. It's not an old thing that people are forgetting. And they don't have anything. So to have the opportunity to sell an ointment and get some money, that is quite important. It's not a little thing at all.
John Gallagher:
I'm thinking based on what you just said, I'm looking at all around the world now, I'm looking at thinking about the people in Ukraine, in Gaza. Many, many people forced to leave their countries who were trying to go somewhere and end up maybe trying to come into the US on the borders and think about the hell everyone's going through in these situations. And then you're doing this in one camp and it's like, wow, there's so much going on. I guess I've been thinking myself recently like, okay, I feel like I need to do more, something else, out there. And here you are doing this and it's so inspiring.
Anna Rosa:
I think it's important to focus. So yes, I'm very well aware of what's happening in Gaza and Ukraine and all of the other places, but I cannot put my focus on that.
John Gallagher:
Right. No.
Anna Rosa:
I hope to do that maybe later, but then I would really have to be well funded. I mean, I would like to set up, for example, in Jordan, there are huge refugee camps there. I think the biggest ones in the world are there, or at least in the Middle East. And the second biggest are where I'm working. So I would like to actually be in quite a few countries in the end. But I think it's the focus thing. I think you can be aware of all the suffering somewhere else, but you have to do what you can do. You cannot get distracted by so much suffering everywhere that you can't do anything. That is what we have to remember. You have to focus on what you can do and put your energy into that then, whatever that is.
For example, I'm following the Gaza situation religiously also because I don't know if the situation will be that I can't go because of war coming in. The last one was 10 years ago. It's not an unlikely thing to happen. So that's why it's also extremely important for me to employ Eman and the driver. We have to have a driver because we can't go to the camps otherwise. There is no public transport at all. There's hardly any infrastructure in this country. So for me to have her teaching in the event of war, and it's too dangerous for me to go over there, is extremely important. So hence, I am absolutely hell-bent on getting enough funds together.
I mean, I'll probably finish my savings this year, but I hope to get enough together that I can really just keep her on, especially in the event that I can't go there. I mean, if there be war, of course there'll be extra crisis in terms of what's needed. I mean, one thing we have also, we taught 525 women but we also distributed 525 products at the same time, full size. It's not tiny samples, we are just giving out few drops. We are actually giving them big jars of ointments and pain oil and hair oil and cough syrups, et cetera, et cetera. So we could as well just set up a place and just produce just to give out. And that's something I would like to do in the future too. But that's the other option, not to teach, but just actually distribute and just get them to help to make lots and lots and lots of needed herbal products. So there are lots of angles to what you can do there. But I most certainly do need help. There's no question about that.
John Gallagher:
I encourage everybody to go to helpingherbs.org and read the story, this beautiful website, new website set up.
Anna Rosa:
Thank you.
John Gallagher:
Of course, you can donate there via PayPal. Please do that. But also, you were also talking to us earlier that are you doing courses that people listening could take where some of those profits might go? Can you talk about that?
Anna Rosa:
Yes. Yes, I can. So when I mentioned earlier my original idea, I run this skin care company where I wild-pick everything myself in my skin care. So the original idea was to take the profit from that and that would be enough, which it isn't. I'm not exporting that much. But I've also got an online course on Icelandic herbs, which is if you're a herbalist or just somebody who loves herbs and wants to learn more, then all of the profit from that course will go directly to refugee. It's not like I'm receiving a salary doing any of this. That's the other thing. There is no overhead. We have a board who works voluntarily. We have no overhead. No, I mean my office is in the living room where I live. So it's like, all the money you donate will actually go directly towards the workshop. There is no question about that. I can absolutely promise that.
So that course is what I'm teaching. It's an online course, videos, in-depth videos about 14 Icelandic herbs. And the thing is, those Icelandic herbs are the ones I've worked with for 30 years, so I know them very well. But they also grow in the states, all of them, and in Canada and Europe. So it's not like they're only located in Iceland. So it's highly beneficial for you wherever you are basically. And because I've always harvested everything myself, so I teach in details how to harvest, and I have harvesting videos, all kinds of things. So it's literally everything I know about those 14 herbs. Those are the ones I have really used for the last 30 years, because I work with very few herbs. I don't work with 200 herbs. I work with about 30, and I've always done that in my clinic.
John Gallagher:
Right.
Tara Ruth:
Mm-hmm.
Anna Rosa:
But maximum 30, 50, absolute maximum I work with. Because like yarrow, you can do everything with yarrow, more or less. Same with nettle, for example. So I think the course is highly beneficial for anyone who loves herbs. Not to mention if Iceland is on your bucket list and you want to come here, then it's absolutely obligatory to know something about the herbs.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, absolutely.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. So it sounds like yarrow and nettle might be featured in the course. Can you name just a few of the other herbs for people to get excited?
Anna Rosa:
Well, like blueberries, I mean, I pick a lot of wild blueberries and clovers, but blueberries, of course, you can just buy them in the States. Thinking of meadowsweet, I use a lot, for example, it's all over the place here. I use a type of willow, for example. Now I'm forgetting all the others. Iceland moss, which is quite specific here, but a very good one. But meadowsweet and yarrow, you can do absolutely everything with them, more or less.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, right. Where is this course? Where can people find out about that course?
Anna Rosa:
It's annarosaskincare.com. So it's just one of the tabs there, and it's the healing power of Icelandic herbs. You can also just Google that and it'll come up. Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Beautiful.
Tara Ruth:
And we'll also put it in our show notes as well for folks.
John Gallagher:
Oh, yes, of course.
Anna Rosa:
Uh-huh. Yeah. And I believe I promised you some discount as well. So it should be 30% off for the listeners of this podcast. Yes.
John Gallagher:
Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, my gosh. Wow. Thank you, Anna Rosa. And just thank you so much for joining us on HerbMentor Radio. For folks who want to learn more, they can find out more about your work on helpingherbs.org. It was just such a pleasure getting to chat with you today and to learn more about the work you're doing.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. Thank you.
Anna Rosa:
Thank you so much for having me.
John Gallagher:
So Tara, before we go, there's just one more little thing I wanted to share with folks.
Tara Ruth:
Oh yeah, please do.
John Gallagher:
Well, that I was looking at Anna Rosa site, on helpingherbs.org, and you can hit the donate button, it's really easy, right at the top. It uses PayPal, and you can actually set up a monthly thing for like five bucks a month. I mean, five bucks a month could be, for some people, like a cup of coffee or something. Just doing that monthly, or even if it's one time and it's five bucks or more, whatever you can afford, but it can be that low, and you can set that up totally on her site really easily. It's just monthly, five bucks, donate with PayPal, boom, and then you're helping Anna Rosa out.
Tara Ruth:
So simple. So simple, yet effective.
John Gallagher:
Exactly. So I just wanted to make sure that was clear with folks. Just love that conversation. I'm so inspired. I'm really inspired. Yeah, it's getting me to rethink things for sure here. But meanwhile, how about if you can just hang on just a couple more minutes, Tara, I think you've got an herb note for us.
Tara Ruth:
We've got an herb note. Folks, let's dive on in.
Welcome to Herb Notes. I'm Tara Ruth with LearningHerbs. Even if you're not a total herb nerd, chances are you've probably heard of elderberry. Blue and black elderberries have many benefits, and they're most well known as a gentle immune supporting antiviral herb. The benefits of elderberry go way beyond its immune bolstering properties though. What's more? The flowers of elder also boast many healing gifts. Want to learn more about the gifts of elder? Let's dive into three key health benefits of elder.
One, elderberry for immune support. Traditional knowledge and modern research show that elderberry can both help prevent colds and flu and also shorten their duration. Many of these studies have been done with elderberry syrup, which is an easy preparation to make in your own kitchen. During cold and flu season, I like to take a daily shot of elderberry syrup to help bolster my immune system. Two, elderberry as an anti-inflammatory. In addition to supporting immune health, elderberry can also act as a systemic anti-inflammatory. The berries are also a rich source of flavonoids and have traditionally been used to help address arthritic pain. Three, elderflower for skin health. Just as elderberries are anti-inflammatory, elderflowers also have a particular affinity for addressing inflammation in the skin. Topical applications of elderflower in the forms of washes, creams, or lotions can help support minor rashes and sunburns.
So to recap, here are three benefits of elder: One, elderberries can offer immune support. Two, elderberry is anti-inflammatory. Three, elderflower can support skin health. And just to note, we're talking about the blue and black elderberries here, not the red elderberry, which has higher levels of cyanogenic compounds. If you want to learn more about the benefits of blue and black elderberries, you can visit herbnotes.cards to grab a free deck of our top 12 herb notes. You'll learn all about common herbs like elderberry, garlic, aloe, and more. This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch you next time.
John Gallagher:
HerbMentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably wildcrafted podcasts written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher. Sound engineering by Zach Frank. Visit herbmentorradio.com to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and to find out how you can be part of HerbMentor, which is a website that you must see to believe. HerbMentor Radio is a production of LEARNINGHERBS.COM, LLC. All rights reserved. Thank you very, very, very much for listening.