Elizabeth Guthrie:
When I sit with this plant, what happens inside? And that over a period of time, it's just like any human relationship. If I meet somebody, the first time I meet them, it's not going to be best buddies forever type situation. Now we may feel really connected, but that deep, lasting friendship takes time to build and it's the same way with the plants.
John Gallagher:
You are listening to HerbMentor Radio by Learning Herbs. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. Today we're chatting with Dr. Elizabeth Guthrie. Elizabeth is a clinical herbalist, certified aromatherapist and yoga teacher with a PhD in natural medicine and a specialization in naturopathic psychology. They're the bestselling author of the Trauma Informed Herbalist and work as a wellness practitioner on unceded Muscogee territory in Alabama.
John Gallagher:
Welcome Elizabeth. Thank you so much for joining us.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Thank you. I'm really honored to be here.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Thank you for being with us. And before we dive in, I just want to acknowledge for our listeners that trauma is a super intense topic that can bring up a lot for folks. So if you're listening, I encourage you to be gentle with yourself and practice whatever nourishing self-care you need while listening. And just thank you all for being here and listening to our interview with Elizabeth. Elizabeth, the term trauma informed is in the title of your book, "The Trauma Informed Herbalist." And I see this term a lot these days, and it's one of those terms that since I've seen it so much, I haven't really paused to think about what does that actually mean? So I'm curious for you, what does that mean for something or someone to be trauma informed?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Yes. There are so many different definitions of what trauma is and what being trauma informed is. And for me it is recognizing that trauma affects different people in different ways and being willing to adjust and change things based off of what somebody's experiencing. So when it comes to my work, a lot of the times I'll have people come and they'll have something that's a little bit unusual happening. An herb isn't working the right way or something isn't working the way they expected it to, and we have to be able to pivot and find something different that works a little bit better. Trauma informed care can cover the language that you use in consults. It can cover the way that your office presents. What things look like inside your office space. It can cover the different herbs you use based off of somebody's symptoms or when you're using this for yourself, when you're looking at yourself and looking at what I need after experiencing trauma or significant stress, having a little bit of compassion towards yourself and recognizing that maybe something needs to be adjusted a little bit. And just because something works for the majority of people doesn't mean that we can't adjust it and change what we're doing to make it work a little bit better for you.
John Gallagher:
And so what's the difference between being trauma informed versus experiencing trauma? Because I read in your book ... Which is awesome. Love your book. "The Trauma Informed Herbalist." And that was something you differentiate in the beginning, which I think is important.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Yes. Experiencing a trauma means that you have experienced something in your life that has created this trauma response. Matter of fact, let me just back up. Let me define trauma.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Good idea.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
We're talking about a lot of nuance here. And currently the way that trauma is defined by many of the experts is the response that your body has after an event that it perceived as overwhelming. And I really like this because first of all, it's the response that your body and your nervous system has. It is a survival response. It's not a pathology. It's not that you have a disease. Your body has actually done what it's supposed to do when it's under duress. And that I think is a really important point to be had is because yes, there are things we can do to build more resilience and come back after trauma to be an even stronger and wiser person, but I think it's really important to recognize that a trauma response doesn't mean you're broken, it means your body's done what it's supposed to do.
The second part to that is ... Because remember, trauma is the response that your body and your brain has had after an event that you have perceived as overwhelming. So for instance, if Tara and I have gone through something and something has happened in my background that causes me to experience said event as overwhelming, I may come out of it with a trauma response and Tara may not have that trauma response. And I think that's a really important thing to recognize because especially as practitioners, but even just as people in a community, I may experience certain traumas that you don't experience and vice versa. So instead of being like, "Well, why did that bother you? Suck it up. Deal with it."
John Gallagher:
And that just leads to a lot of shame response in the person who had the trauma which re-traumatizes them, correct?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. Exactly. It can become re-traumatizing. And so if we can recognize it as somebody has had an experience that was overwhelming to them, it's no longer as shameful. So I love that definition because like you're saying with the shame, it is removing a lot of that shame. So when you've experienced a trauma, you have experienced your particular experience, for lack of a better term. Trying to come up with a synonym here and it's not working, but that is your experience and that is a powerful experience and it's a very valid place. Matter of fact, that's where I started. I started with, I had a trauma experience and that led me to begin trying to understand how to be more trauma-informed. But having a trauma experience, my trauma experience is very much fight or flight. My trauma response is very fiery. There's a lot of energy, which of course leads to burnout, but that's a whole 'nother story.
But I have a very fiery movement-based trauma response, a lot of heat, a lot of tension. Whereas other people, once they've experienced trauma, they may have a different response. We have what's called dorsal vagal collapse where somebody shuts down. From an herbal energetics perspective, it's a lot of cold, it's a lot of atonic relaxation energy, and that's a very different response than my experience. So becoming trauma-informed consists of us having to learn a little bit more about what other people may also experience after trauma and how we may pivot and adjust what we do based off of their nervous system's needs and what they may be experiencing. And of course, there's a lot of cultural things that come into play and personal and genetic and ancestral things as well. So it's a very multifaceted conversation that I think that most herbalists are already doing that some, but if we can pay more specific attention to it, we could really make a difference for people.
Tara Ruth:
I love this nuance you're bringing to this. Bringing in the herbal energetics aspect as well and thinking about the quality of the response in someone's body. Is it hot, cold, wet, dry? How to work with that from an herbal energetics perspective is really ... Yeah. It's really powerful.
John Gallagher:
I'm wondering, Elizabeth, I read in your book about your time as a 911 dispatcher and you were witness to a lot of trauma. And of course, you say this, but it also caused you to experience a lot of trauma through other people's trauma. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about this experience and maybe that led to the work you're doing now or is part of it.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
It is the main reason that I've ended up doing this work. I grew up around herbs. Loved herbs. My mom had fibromyalgia, used herbs along with some lifestyle changes to really cure herself of that. She's not had fibromyalgia pain in years. So I grew up seeing the power of plant medicine. And then as I started to use it for stress relief and to make my workouts a little bit better, which is where rhodiola comes in, I was using rhodiola some after particularly intense workouts to help me with my recovery time. I was just using a little bit here and there where it made sense. I loved it. It was one of my best friends. Rhodiola is a stimulating adaptogen and it was really becoming one of my favorite allies from a physical medicine angle.
And then as I worked at 911 dispatch, I was experiencing a lot of these ... Just a lot of calls. I don't want to describe anything in detail on here in case you may be listening and you've been through some of your own trauma, and I don't want to bring anything up very visceral for anyone. But you go from domestic violence calls to car wrecks. I had situations where family members would call in. I worked at Hoover 911 when there was the shooting of EJ Bradford at the Galleria Mall. So we had a lot of very difficult situations and very traumatizing scenarios that would occur. And I was okay until I ended up in a domestic violence situation myself. So the person that I was with before my current husband was very physically and emotionally abusive. And dealing with that in the afternoon and then going and working night shift at dispatch gave me trauma. It was too much. That overwhelmed my system. And then I started noticing that I was struggling with rhodiola.
It was giving me panic attacks. And of course the natural tendency is to think, "Oh my goodness, I'm broken. Why am I not enjoying this plant anymore? What's wrong with me?" Until I started studying and understanding more about trauma and how it affects our nervous system and how the energetic fight-or-flight sympathetic nervous system state that I was experiencing combined with the energizing properties of rhodiola was just pulling me too much further into that space. And I really needed things that would help me to soothe, help to disperse some of that energy and help me to even ground or feel more rooted. And that was what really set me on the path of are other people experiencing this? What else is happening here? And that's what got me studying how trauma and the nervous system response to these traumatic events can change our relationship emotionally and physically with different herbs.
John Gallagher:
So it's really an individual experience between a person and the different herbs. One might be different for different people, their responses.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. So polyvagal theory which was a theory that was created by Dr. Stephen Porges to help to explain a little bit about why certain things of the vagus nerve could indicate resilience and other signs of the vagus nerve being activated could indicate impending issues. That theory has really played a part in helping me to start generally guiding people towards what herbs might help. So there's a starting point that you can look at, but it is very individualized. You do get to a point where it is, well, what is my body doing? Which is where my somatics work comes into play. What do we notice inside? What's happening when we're using this plant? And how do I feel at the end of the day and then adjusting accordingly.
Tara Ruth:
Can you speak more to your somatic work? I'm not sure if everyone knows what somatics are. Can you define that and then how that supports your work?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Sure. Somatics comes from the Greek word soma, which means body. And this is a type of practice that works with noticing what the body is doing, noticing what the nervous system is telling us, and then adjusting things accordingly. And I got into a lot of this because I'm also a yoga teacher. But I really love this because the top-down approach that a lot of therapy uses where we logically look at what's happening and we logically ... I say we because I'm in therapy and I have a great therapist. She's a cognitive behavioral therapist, and it's a really good conversation sometimes about what my brain is doing, what I'm thinking when these things are happening. And that top-down approach of processing is really helpful for certain things. But what we found more and more is that people can spend years in therapy hashing out, discussing it over and over again, and at some point the top-down approach has helped, but it hasn't fully resolved the trauma that's sitting in the body.
And that's where the bottom-up approach is of somatic type work where you're noticing what the body is doing and not necessarily even trying to change what the body is doing. Now, we may adjust. For instance, the rhodiola situation. My body was becoming more energized and it was not good. It was very overwhelming. I adjusted what I was doing there. I didn't try to change what my body was telling me. I just adjusted the plant to something that helped more for the current situation. So somatics can give us those cues, but it can also just help us to listen to what our body is saying. And the beauty of this ... Yes, we have clinical somatic practices. I am in Dr. Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing program. But the beauty of this is that a lot of this kind of thing is found in Indigenous practices, in some of the ancestral practices that are available. So whether you're European or you're Indigenous American or you have African ancestry, you can go back to these different Indigenous practices and find a lot of healing support that has a lot of these somatic elements to it. The wisdom has always been there. They're just now starting to study it further.
Tara Ruth:
I love what you're saying with this piece of listening to the body and what's there, rather than telling the body that there's something wrong with it. Why isn't it acting the way it "should" or like other people and really taking this holistic approach to being with what is and then moving from there.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. It's like there's so many people who compare themselves to other people or think, "Well, I'm broken because this person didn't experience that," or I'm experiencing differently. So it's really, well, there's just a lot about acceptance.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. It really is a lot about acknowledging that everyone has had a little bit of a different experience. Even people who've been through the same trauma, the experience of that trauma is a little different. Their backgrounds are a little different. They may have similar responses, but they're not necessarily going to have identical responses. There's going to be differences in that kind of thing. So being trauma informed is really recognizing that and conscientiously trying to adjust where things need to be adjusted. That may be our language, that may be how we're speaking about things. That may be the visual cues in the office space. That may the certain herbs that we start people with or when we're working for ourselves, the certain herbs that we're doing for ourselves. Because if we can adjust things slightly in ways that help to reduce that feeling of shame that John mentioned earlier, then we're really going to make a difference for how quickly somebody can get to a point where their body is ready to heal. Because stress and being under a lot of stress makes it very difficult for the body to do what it needs to do in order to heal.
John Gallagher:
It seems like there would be also support needed by the people around the person who's suffered a lot of trauma. So there's acceptance from their community or family or people accepting who they are because it's probably so easy to get triggered and go right back into it again.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Absolutely. It's interesting that you bring that up because the polyvagal theory that I mentioned earlier, some of the work that Dr. Porges has done with that talks about the need for co-regulation and having support from the people around us. And not to get too esoteric, but some of the work that—
John Gallagher:
Please.
Tara Ruth:
Let's do it.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Tara's like do it. Some of the work that I have been trying to get focused on is how we can build relationships with the plants as allies so that they can be co-regulation support for us when people aren't able to be. And this has been a big thing for several of my clients who maybe are single parents or they have a lot of friends who are currently in crisis as well, and it makes it harder for them to find that support and that co-regulation they need from the humans around them because the humans are also in crisis at the moment. So instead we can bring plant allies in, especially with somatic practices, and they can be sources of strength. They can also be sources of wisdom, and there's a lot on that front as well. But just from the angle of working to try to feel more resilient and things like that, they really have a source of strength for us there.
John Gallagher:
There's so much research now about nature connection and healing that plants ... Or if it's taking a walk or sitting by a tree or using or harvesting, making medicine, that makes sense that that would really be a wonderful healing thing to do.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Absolutely. And it really struck me a few weeks ago. I was in a somatic session with one of my healers that I work with, and they asked me, "Who do you have right now you could lean on for support?" And I teared up because I have a family member that's really struggling that would otherwise have been a support system. They're not available. One of my other friends is dealing with a really big issue that's uncovered at their house. They're not available. And all of a sudden there was nobody on the human realm that I could lean on. And luckily this healer, they recognized that and they said, "You're not thinking about your plants." And then it clicked. Lemon balm. And just in that moment, instantly my entire body settled because lemon balm is something I could lean on for support. And so having those moments ... And I know a lot of the times when we get into herbs, we're in it because this herb can do this for us and this herb can do that for us and that's a really powerful piece to the puzzle. But then we can also build relationships with these plants so that we feel supported by them. And that can make a really big difference, especially when we're going through something that is very stressful, very strenuous or has created trauma for us.
John Gallagher:
So Tara.
Tara Ruth:
So John.
John Gallagher:
This is the point in the podcast where people can get a cup of tea or take a restroom break or maybe take a breath outside or something like that. I guess people could hit pause too.
Tara Ruth:
They could also do that.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. But we like to provide this space for folks. Something that Elizabeth said when she said, you're not broken, it's what your body is supposed to do in trauma responses. I don't know. That struck me, just remembering that, that we're not broken. That these things are things that happen to us all in different degrees and different situations and to be kind.
Tara Ruth:
And our bodies are so smart. They want to protect us.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. It's really getting a lot out of this conversation. So it made me think of ... Everyone you're listening to HerbMentor Radio and on HerbMentor, which is our online community we do have a course. It's five videos. Our courses are like podcasts in themselves in a way, listening to amazing herbalists share something. In this case, K.P. Khalsa who is just an incredible herbalist. Been doing this really long time. He's written books, been president of the American Herbalist Guild. So many things. Just a wonderful man. And he put together a five part series on HerbMentor called Relax. And yeah, it's one that I really love. Have you listened to that one Tara?
Tara Ruth:
I have gotten to listen to it. Yeah. One of my favorite episodes is on stress and anxiety solutions. Very helpful.
John Gallagher:
Very helpful. Also goes over digestion, stress, inflammation and long-term health, about brain nerves, inflammation, all these things. So I was just thinking that that might connect if you're an HerbMentor member that might connect to this conversation, that's something you may want to check out at some point. And where can folks find out how to become an HerbMentor member if they're interested?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. They can go to herbmentorradio.com and they may just find a discount there at herbmentorradio.com.
John Gallagher:
Mm-hmm. And you can click subscribe there to make sure that we're on the apps for you. Whether you use Apple Podcasts or Spotify or one of the many ones out there. So when we have a new episode, it'll just appear.
Tara Ruth:
Magically.
John Gallagher:
Magically. It is magic. It's all magic. All right. What do you think Tara?
Tara Ruth:
I think it's time to get back to our interview with Elizabeth.
John Gallagher:
Good idea.
Tara Ruth:
I'm full of them.
Can you talk a little bit more about that relationship building with the plants and how you cultivate that in your own life and then also help other folks cultivate that?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Sure. I think one of the things that's key to this, and you picked up on that word, is it's relationship building. We're not just talking about what can this plant do for me? When's the last time that this lemon balm tea helped me to feel settled? It's also, what am I doing, maybe not directly for the plant. It depends on the area that you're in if you have space. But what am I doing to support a better environment? Something that Robin Wall Kimmerer said the other day ... I'm probably going to quote this wrong. But what am my friends saw her in person the other day and a really good quote came out of it that convenience is ... I'm not quoting her directly on this. But convenience is damaging. And so there are times where we can be more eco-conscious, and that can be part of that relationship building.
And that in and of itself a lot of the times leads to being a little bit more connected to nature in general, which then like what John was mentioning earlier with forest bathing and Shinrin-yoku and just being out in nature. Or there's research that's been done on the Schumann resonance, which is the earth's natural resonance that helps us to feel a little bit more settled. They've done research into the autonomic nervous system. It's really fascinating stuff. So just that general building, a little bit more conscious relationship with nature helps to strengthen these relationships. But then when we look at individual plants, a lot of the times we are working with the plants somehow. So in the case of things that are abundant in your area, maybe they're good in a tea, something like that, you can absolutely make a cup of tea, sit down with it, sip on it, enjoy it. And then sit and see what comes up.
Notice if you feel connected to it. Notice if you're getting a nudge to go do something. If it's safe and your intuition's nudging you towards it, maybe go check out and see what that looks like. If it's not something that is abundant in your area, or if you've checked the United Plant Savers at-risk list and you see, oh, this is something that they're really watching because it looks like it may be over-harvested, we can just be with the plant. Maybe have a picture of it. Or if you have a plant outside ... So we have some Solomon's seal at my grandparents' house and I'll just go sit with it, not ingesting it, just sitting with it. And spending a little time around ... If you subscribe to the idea of it having a conscious spirit, then I'm sitting with the conscious spirit, and that's where my brain is.
Now for other people maybe you're just around the vibration. Maybe it's the vibrational pattern. However that feels to you, whatever that looks like, sitting with it and being with it and then noticing what's happening inside. Ties back into some of the somatic stuff. When I drink this tea, what happens inside? What intuitive thoughts come up for me so on and so forth. When I sit with this plant, what happens inside? And that over a period of time ... It's just like any human relationship. If I meet somebody the first time I meet them, it's not going to be best buddies forever type situation. Now we may feel really connected, but that deep, lasting friendship takes time to build. And it's the same way with the plants.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. So true.
John Gallagher:
Letting that sink in. I was wondering about, you mentioned lemon balm and lemon balm is what they call nervine or one of the ... Lemon balm's a lot of things, but it is in that category, helps nervous system. And you also mentioned rhodiola, and often people consider that like an adaptogen. So is there a time to recommend certain nervines to people versus adaptogens or to different points in the healing journey? Because really people would love a magic wand and say you are healed, but these are ... A lot of things are with us for our lives. And so in the process of therapy and everything, what is the process of how someone who is whether dealing with their own trauma or helping a trauma or PTSD things or whatever, introduce or layer if you will, different remedies, how the approach is?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
There's several different ways that you can look at this. And the main one that I discuss in this general setting ... Because again, what Tara and I were talking about earlier, with it being nuanced, there's so many different ways this can go. But from a general perspective, this is where the polyvagal theory comes in handy. The polyvagal theory describes three states of the autonomic nervous system. The autonomic nervous system is the system that controls a lot of our subconscious, unconscious processes. So things like your heart rate, your breathing, if you're not actively trying to control your breathing. Things like that are controlled by the autonomic nervous system. And what Dr. Porges did when he created the polyvagal theory is he said, yes, we have our sympathetic fight or flight, and then we have our parasympathetic rest and digest. The parasympathetic is mostly in his theory focused on the vagus nerve, but the vagus nerve is split even further. So we do have the rest or digest in the parasympathetic, but then we also have the dorsal vagal collapse and shutdown.
So now there's the sympathetic fight or flight. If you're feeling very jittery, if you're feeling very on edge, easily startled. My mom likes to say that it's like when you're watching a horror movie and you know that there's about to be a jump scare and that tingling that goes up your spine, that's a very fight or flight sensation. You're on edge. That is the sympathetic part of the polyvagal theory. And when that feels overwhelming ... Now notice, none of these sensations is necessarily bad or wrong. We are supposed to have that feeling sometimes. Otherwise, Friday the 13th, nobody would care about that movie.
Or for you Netflix lovers, Hill House is the one that we've been watching back through. That would just not appeal to anybody if we didn't have the sympathetic fight or flight response. But when it becomes overwhelming, when it starts to feel extremely uncomfortable and be overwhelming, then there are certain relaxing and soothing herbs that you can look at. So things like possibly ashwagandha. Very relaxing and soothing. A lot of the nervines. So lemon balm is one that I reach for. Sometimes skullcaps depending on the person. Right now I'm on a lavender and chamomile kick, but that's also because of some of my long COVID stuff, which is another conversation altogether. But any of that sleepy time soothing type herb could be used to help to discharge a little bit of that sympathetic energy and bring it back to where it feels manageable.
In the dorsal vagal state, which is that collapse, that shutdown, this is the whole, you are so worn out from things. The stress has just gotten to the point where you could sit down and just stare at the wall for hours. That collapse sensation. A lot of people will notice numbness. A lot of people will just feel like I just can't get up and go. That's where some of the more energizing plants can come into play. So this could be things like rhodiola, maybe the ginsengs in the right situation, but rhodiola is a go-to, for me, for people who are in that scenario to start. And then I'm going to use hibiscus and calendula and things that have that supportive energizing feel to help bring a little bit of energy back to the nervous system so that it feels less overwhelming.
And then if somebody is in ventral vagal, which is really where our rest and digest sits, is the ventral vagal part of the nervous system, this is where we feel connected. Usually we feel pretty rooted. We feel like we can have conversations with people and we're feeling heard. And this is why Stephen Porges talks about it being so important to have people for co-regulation that feel supportive and like you were talking about John earlier, with needing people that are accepting and supportive around you. And from a practitioner viewpoint, the more often that I can be in that ventral vagal space, the more often my clients can co-regulate to that. And some herbs that I like because they're really balancing, holy basil or tulsi is one, and milky oats is another that really has that tonic balancing feel to it.
Tara Ruth:
I'm drinking tulsi tea right now during this interview. Happy to co-regulate with you both.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
And I'm not going to mention what tea I'm drinking.
Tara Ruth:
Well, Elizabeth, hearing you talk about all these different herbs, it's making me curious about trauma informed delivery methods, which you also talk about in your book. And can you just talk about how the different forms that we deliver these herbs in, how this impacts our bodies and what your go-to forms are and how you navigate flexibility with administration of herbs?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. I end up using a lot of capsules and glycerites. And for anybody who's listening in who maybe doesn't ... Maybe you've just used tinctures, which are alcohol-based liquid extractions. Glycerites use usually vegetable glycerin, which is the sweet part of fat. And it's diluted with a little bit of water. Not very much. We're usually using a 60 to 70% glycerin to 30 to 40% water. And that liquid extract is not quite as strong as a tincture, but it does extract herbs relatively well and can be used if somebody isn't going to use alcohol.
So a lot of people have trauma related to alcohol. Either they've struggled with addiction or they may have had an incident that occurred while they were drinking, or especially here in the Bible belt, there's a lot of people who do not drink for religious reasons. And then we also have people who don't drink for health reasons and they don't want the alcohol. So that's a lot of the times I use a glycerite instead. I also use capsules on occasion, but I really have gotten to where I love the liquid forms because we can use smaller doses and we can use larger doses. If you have a capsule, unless you're making your own and you have time to break them apart if you realize it's too much, which nobody does. Let's get real. Capsules can be harder to dose. Because if it's a little bit too much to somebody's system, especially right after trauma, a lot of the times your nervous system is more on edge. And the vagus nerve, which is what we're talking about in the polyvagal theory, that's the nerve that controls a lot of those subconscious processes and it includes your heart rate and your digestive tract.
And so if you are taking something and your vagus nerve is on edge, it can be too much at what we would consider a normal dose. So that's why I really like liquid extracts like glycerin, because then we can do drop dosing when we need to. We can do smaller doses, we can do half doses and get somebody a consistent support without overwhelming the nervous system.
Tara Ruth:
That makes so much sense. Just another little shout out for glycerites. I love working with them too because of their sweetness and how it can just be so nice to have something sweet and comforting as you're taking in this remedy.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Absolutely.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Yeah. And want to mentioned too, your book is ... The title eludes that it's for maybe practitioners or trauma informed herbalists, but it's for everyone really, right? Because it's like if you're interested in herbs ... Because whether you are working with clients or whether you yourself have experienced trauma or you want to be supportive of people with trauma and understanding trauma, I think it's a really important book. Is that what got you to write it? Because I had the honor of when I was doing my acupuncture training to work in a methadone clinic in the addiction community. And it was an experience where I saw that at this program, I was really amazed at how many different aspects that there are to someone's healing. It's never one thing that helps a person. It's not just that acupuncture I was doing or just the therapy or just the methadone or just whatever it was.
It was all of these things and it had to be worked on all the time. And then that's where a lot of success and healing came through. So just that awareness, I think, for people to know that if they have friends or their self for you're working with clients, that it is part of a process and there are other therapies that need to be combined with those that to have an effect. And in your book, you list out a lot of different types of natural therapies. I was wondering if you ... I went and rambled on there. You could talk about what I just said there or mention some of these therapies. Sorry.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
No, it's fine. No, you bring up some really good points. So yes. First of all, absolutely, this is a holistic scenario. It is not just, oh, let's work on some physical stuff and that'll fix it or let's just emotionally connect to a couple of plants and that'll fix it. And I think that's really important to recognize is, like you mentioned, acupuncture can be really helpful. Yoga can be very helpful. That's why I'm a yoga teacher. A lot of the breath work, the Pranayama that we call it in yoga can be really helpful. And if somebody is in a good place and meditation feels good, then meditation can be very helpful. Mindfulness based stress reduction can be fantastic. So there's all kinds of different options that are out there that can help people and it is a holistic approach that's necessary. And in a lot of situations, addiction is considered a form of dissociation and it can be very trauma driven and things like that. So it's fascinating and wonderful to hear that y'all had those options.
And the other thing that I want to acknowledge with that is that while we do have all these options, sometimes that can start to make things feel overwhelming. It can really make it feel like—
John Gallagher:
Right.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Yeah, this is a thing. And it can feel overwhelming. The choices, having to choose, especially if you've been in an intimate partner violence situation or domestic violence situation where your choices have been berated for a long time. Having to choose can feel overwhelming. So just start small. Just find one or two things. Don't feel like you have to change everything overnight. And we have to acknowledge the privilege that can allow somebody to have all of these things. That's one reason that I really love both yoga and herbs, but especially plant medicine. Because even though there's a lot of forms of plant medicine that are now intertwined with privilege and either financial privilege or racial privilege, some of those things, if we look closely enough, there are options that don't consist of us having to have a lot of money.
Sometimes, especially when I was first sick with long COVID, I couldn't go hike in the woods. I couldn't get out and go do anything. And so some of that connection consisted of more of that spiritual connection, the spiritual side of things. And so there are some things you can do like that on your own, but my real call to action on that front is community-based care. And if we start ... For instance, there's a couple of things that I can grow really well here, but then I can't grow other things just because of the soil here. We're on the mountainside and the soil's just not great here. And so there are certain things I can grow, but there are other things I can't. So then being able to offer my abundance at the end of the season and swapping it with somebody or letting somebody have what they need and then somebody else donates what I need, that kind of thing, that is the kind of thing that helps to overcome those moments where things feel out of reach. So the more that we can do to support each other and the more that we can do to care for each other whenever we have the ability, the better off we will all be in the long run.
John Gallagher:
I think one thing to remember is that something we can all do and that we can do immediately, that is the oldest way of connecting with the plants is just breathing.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Yes.
John Gallagher:
Because that's a communication with the plants. We're breathing out carbon dioxide and they're breathing it in and giving us back oxygen. And simplifying it down to that and then maybe taking one step at a time. Right?
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Absolutely. And if you can even just focus on that for two or three minutes at a time. I want to acknowledge ... Again, this is so nuanced, right?
John Gallagher:
Mm-hmm. It is.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
I want to acknowledge that sometimes focusing on our breath can even be activating. If somebody has had a medical based situation where they weren't able to breathe well, or in the case of some of the racial violence that people have experienced here in the US with I can't breathe being part of that, sometimes that's hard for people.
John Gallagher:
Right.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. So this is why it's so important. Breath work may be perfect for several of you listening. But if you're the person that's listening to this and you're thinking, well, I can't connect like that, then get a picture of a plant and connect that way on that more vibrational level. All of these different things ... I am really glad you brought up breathing because that is a very accessible way for many people. And I know we're talking for an hour, but I'm like, we could just talk for hours about all these different options.
John Gallagher:
We could. Just go right ahead.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Right. Because there are so many different options. The long and the short of it is the more that we can care for each other, the more that we can share beyond what is just convenient, and the more that we can help each other learn about these different ways that maybe can pivot and help people adjust based off of what you need for your situation, the more accessible this comes and the more people are able to heal.
John Gallagher:
I just think that what you're sharing in your book and everything are just so important and vital for the times we are in now and the trauma people have been through and in this culture and how we're acting and reacting and to stop and listen.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Absolutely. And that's one of the keys to this is that ... You said reacting. And I think that's really important because once you have been through significant emotional events or trauma or a lot of stress, however you define it or whatever that looks like, the body goes into that reactive mode, and that's understandable. It is a survival mechanism. But the more that we can learn how to stay out of that sense of overwhelm, and the more that we can connect with nature, with our plants and then with each other in a way that feels supportive and accepting, the less we react from that place of survival and the more that we're able to respond to each other's needs without fear.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. Elizabeth, I love how so much of the medicine you're bringing here too is about one, normalizing all the different ways that our bodies respond to trauma and also normalizing connecting and community building and healing through community care. And I think one of the most challenging things about trauma for so many folks can be how isolating it feels or like John was saying, all the shame that can come up. So bringing in this community-based aspect and building connections, whether it's sharing herbs with people or sharing the work that you do with people, it's really beautiful. So thank you.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Thank you. I've been honored to be able to talk about it some. And it's funny on the HerbMentor podcast, and I feel like I've talked about a lot of philosophy. But if you've read the book or if you pick it up, you'll see that that's a lot of what I'm talking about is it's shifting. And it's not very far. Most herbalists are already pretty much there. But if we can just adjust just a little bit more and shift a little bit more into this viewpoint, then we open up to an even stronger community and more individualized herbal support and things like that. And I think it makes us a more powerful group to do that.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. And for folks who want to get your book and learn more about your work, where can they find your book and where can they find you?
John Gallagher:
Yeah.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Yeah. My website is traumainformedherbalist.com. Everything's on there.
John Gallagher:
Everything's on there.
Tara Ruth:
Perfect.
John Gallagher:
You can check out the book, get the book and learn more there. So traumainformedherbalist.com And that's the name of the book, "Trauma Informed Herbalist." I highly recommend everyone getting yourself a copy of that wherever you love to buy your books. But go to traumainformedherbalist.com and support the herbalist. That's what I always say. So Elizabeth Guthrie, thank you very much for joining us here on HerbMentor Radio, and just yeah, thank you for all your work.
Elizabeth Guthrie:
Thank you. I appreciate you and Tara having me on.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And Tara, maybe we have an herb note coming up, huh?
Tara Ruth:
Yes. We sure do.
John Gallagher:
All right. We'll get to that.
Tara Ruth:
Just one look at a radiant Calendula officinalis flower is enough to make anyone fall in love. With its uplifting blossoms and dainty leaves, it's no wonder that this easy to grow plant has become an incredibly popular ornamental. But calendula's gifts go far beyond its looks. This common herb has long been used in traditional herbal remedies to support health and vitality in a variety of ways. So let's dive into three key benefits of calendula. One, calendula flowers can help promote healthy skin. Calendula is often heralded as herbalists' go-to herb for skincare. Whether you're looking for a daily serum or a first aid healing salve, calendula's nourishing anti-inflammatory properties make it a wonderfully versatile skincare ally. Calendula particularly excels at supporting mild itchy red, dry skin conditions, including but not limited to insect bites, rashes, dandruff, and minor burns.
Two. Calendula flowers can support digestive health. Just as calendula can promote tissue repair when applied topically, it can also support the health of the tissues along our digestive tracts when consumed as a tea. This tissue repairing action can be attributed to calendula's vulnerary and anti-inflammatory activity. Calendula also pairs this anti-inflammatory action with its bitter flavor, which promotes secretions throughout the digestive tract that can help us digest food more effectively.
Three. Calendula flowers can bolster immune health. Oftentimes people forget about calendula's effect on the immune system, but calendula is a powerful immune stimulant and antimicrobial herb. At the first sign of a cold or sore throat, I often use calendula tea as a mouthwash and gargle to bolster my immunity. I find this tea super helpful for reducing the duration of sore throats and sinus congestion.
So to recap, here are three ways I like to work with calendula. One, I apply calendula as a topical serum or salve for my daily skincare and first aid needs. Two, I drink calendula tea to promote healthy digestion. Three, I make a calendula mouthwash and gargle when I have a cold. And if you want to learn more about calendula's benefits, you can visit herbnotes.cards to grab a free deck of our top 12 herb notes. You'll learn all about common herbs like calendula, garlic, aloe, and more. This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch you next time.
John Gallagher:
HerbMentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably wild crafted podcasts written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher. Sound Engineering by Zack Frank. Visit herbmentorradio.com to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and to find out how you can be part of HerbMentor, which is a website that you must see to believe. HerbMentor Radio is a production of Learningherbs.com LLC, all rights reserved. Thank you very, very, very much for listening.
