John Gallagher: That's okay. I'll just say, Corinna, welcome again because I was like, ah, I'm just going to go right into it.
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
John Gallagher: I think Mercury's still in retrograde. This is all great. You always, you never know where the blooper reel is going to go. All right. You're listening to HerbMentor Radio by LearningHerbs. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth: I'm Tara Ruth. Today, we're chatting with Corinna Wood. Corinna teaches earth-based herbalism in the Wise Woman herbal tradition and focuses on inner growth and transformation. She was co-founder of Red Moon Herbs, and her Southeast Wise Women Herbal Conference ran for 15 years. Corinna now focuses her time on teaching. You can learn about her offerings at corinnawood.com.
John Gallagher: Corinna, welcome.
Corinna Wood: Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm delighted to be here.
John Gallagher: We are recording this on the equinox itself on September 21st is when we're recording this, and that means we're getting into root medicine time. I'd love to talk about some common herbs like comfrey and burdock, but I was drawn by this article that you wrote on poke. When many people think about poke, they think about that it's a poisonous plant you should avoid, but there's this rich history as a medicinal herb, so I was just wondering if you could share with us, how is poke both medicine and poison, like a poisonous plant?
Corinna Wood: Yes. Poke is one that spans the medicinal and toxic or poisonous properties, and it's important to be super careful about the dosage with poke, is really the key. The root is the part of the plant that I use most medicinally. It's also about the time of year that you're harvesting. So, this will be released around that Samhain, Halloween season as we're starting to get into the early frosts. You actually want to wait until ... It's usually closer to winter solstice, of course, it depends where you live, until the above ground portions of the plant have died and are brown and on the ground, and that's when the medicinal properties are at the highest and the toxic properties are at their lowest.
Corinna Wood: Then, when you take root tincture, generally, one to three drops a day is the dosage that I recommend and that I generally use. It's possible to increase a little bit. People have different levels of tolerance for poke, but if you do so, you just want to do so at one drop per day. So, you might take one drop the first day, two drops the second day, three drops the third day, four drops the fourth day, and keep an eye out for like it can create this spacey, out of body kind of feeling. If you really take too much, it can cause vomiting, nausea, or diarrhea. So, certainly, if you notice any nausea coming on, but that is generally at extremely high doses.
Corinna Wood: So, generally, that one to three drop is just such a powerful medicine especially for the upper body and even more so from the neck up. So, I've used it a lot and folks in my community for strep throat, for any sore throats, infections of the gum, and then it's also used for lymphatic stimulation in the breasts as well as the lymph nodes in the neck. So, you can also get the benefits by using a salve externally so if you're nervous about the internal use, which is totally understandable.
John Gallagher: So then, what am I ... As a person, I want to make medicine, I want to get to know poke, where does it grow? Where do I find it? What does it look like when I'm harvesting it? Take us through that process if I'm like, "Oh, what's poke?" and this is my first time wanting to work with it.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. So, poke is a very abundant weed in the area where I live here in the Southeast. I've also seen a lot of it when I was in the Northeast. It's so wonderful because it's incredibly abundant and has these huge roots. So, in order to just harvest one ounce of tincture, which is going to last you for years, you just need a tiny little bit of that root.
Corinna Wood: So, poke, it's also called pokeberry. Sometimes, people are more familiar with the berry phase, which actually is coming ripe at this time of year around Halloween. Actually, my son and his friends, when they were little, would use the berries to rub the juice on their face to make like fake blood for Halloween.
Tara Ruth: That's amazing.
Corinna Wood: It's the seeds, like if you ingested the seeds, which are actually very difficult to crack with your teeth, that is actually toxic, so you wouldn't want to do that, but just rubbing it on their skin, they never had any trouble. So, yeah. Then, you would be digging it in the late fall and then making tincture with a little bit of that root.
Tara Ruth: Beautiful. I know that poke also grows around me in Northern California.
Corinna Wood: Oh, awesome.
Tara Ruth: I see the berries. They're growing in my yard right now, and we like to make little flower arrangements with them, the berries and-
Corinna Wood: Yes. Yes.
Tara Ruth: Yeah, do botanical dyes with them too. So fun.
Corinna Wood: I have also specifics about the safe use of poke and how many drops to take and that kind of thing on my article, which is a very popular article on poke. I'm happy to link to that from the resource page that I'll include for your listeners.
John Gallagher: You can find that on, like you said, your website on corinnawood.com.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I'll put it on corinnawood.com/herbmentorradio.
John Gallagher: Oh.
Tara Ruth: Okay.
Corinna Wood: So, your listeners can just go straight to that.
John Gallagher: Oh, well that makes it easy. Thank you.
Tara Ruth: Yeah. Perfect.
John Gallagher: Yes.
Tara Ruth: Thank you. Another herb that I think about harvesting this time of year is comfrey, which also has some controversy around it for people, and there can be hesitation around harvesting it, but I love this plant so much, and I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about comfrey's reputation versus its traditional uses and how you work with this plant.
John Gallagher: Yeah, because I know there's like, we use the leaves, we can use the roots. Some people use it internally and externally. So, yeah. Let's just talk it out. This is great.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Yeah. Comfrey is a controversial plant, as you all are indicating.
Tara Ruth: Drama!
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Yeah. It is not legal to sell comfrey for internal use per the FDA, and part of the controversy around that is that some herbalists have called into question the studies that that was based on saying like, okay, so we're taking the pyrrolizidine alkaloids out of the comfrey roots. When they did these studies, they were then were extracted and then injected in large quantities into rats. So, the impact is different from than just drinking a cup of comfrey tea because of the concentration and then the size of the rats and that kind of thing.
Tara Ruth: For sure.
Corinna Wood: So, nonetheless, I primarily use and recommend others use comfrey as an external remedy just to be on the safe side. I love the comfrey oil and salve, and so digging the roots in this fall season is the time of year that I like to make the oil. Then, after steeping that for six weeks, you can melt beeswax into it to make a comfrey salve. So, I use that every day for chapped lips and dry skin. It's amazing for eczema, promoting the elasticity of pregnant bellies, breasts, even the perineum to prevent tearing during birth, vaginal dryness during breastfeeding or menopause, the later stages of healing burns. I don't like to use oils during the hot burning phase initially when I'll use honey or aloe, but in the later stages. It's just the cell proliferative properties of comfrey are so powerful, and you can see that just breaking one little bit of root, and you start a whole new plant. You just cut an inch of root.
John Gallagher: Right.
Corinna Wood: It doesn't look like much, but I've started rows and rows of comfrey plants.
John Gallagher: Yes.
Corinna Wood: Little inches of roots, you know what I mean?
Tara Ruth: Absolutely.
John Gallagher: Yeah. You never want to till your comfrey because-
Corinna Wood: No.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: ... this kind of just go everywhere, but do people make ... So, you're making oils with the roots?
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
John Gallagher: I mean, that sounds like there's a lot of water in roots. So, tell me about that process and how you do that versus the leaves because ...
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Well, both when I make comfrey leaf oil and comfrey root oil, I will wilt them first. You need to go a little further with the roots because they are more concentrated in the wateriness. So, I don't fully dry it to the place where if you dry a root, then you have, it'll snap instead of bending when it's a 100% dry. So, it's not quite that far, but it's where the edges are crispy, so that is what I consider wilting.
Corinna Wood: Yeah, so drying the comfrey roots can take one to three days to get it to the just wilted stage. You do want to do it in a place that has low humidity. You can do it in a oven with a pilot light on or even just by the wood stove, that yummy root harvest time of year.
John Gallagher: Right. People like you and I, Corinna, you and I, Corinna, we have a little more humid areas we're in, so we may need assistance, but Tara, if you're in a dry place like-
Corinna Wood: Right.
John Gallagher: ... in California, you can just put it out on a screen.
Corinna Wood: Yeah, totally.
Tara Ruth: I know. I went to the East coast over the summer, and I was like, I'm so excited. I'm going to harvest all these herbs. Then, I did the same thing I would do if I were in California, and then I checked the herbs out the next day, and they were just all molded over.
John Gallagher: Yeah.
Corinna Wood: Oh, yes, yes.
Tara Ruth: So, I was like, okay, this is definitely a different ecosystem.
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
John Gallagher: Yeah.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
Corinna Wood: Totally. Yeah. When you notice molds on the roots, in your oil, there's nothing to do but start over.
John Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
Tara Ruth: Totally.
John Gallagher: Yeah. That's why it's good if you're starting out to not do too big of a batch your first time. Just try a pint or quart or something. If I'm doing that root, unless I'm using folk method and I'm making the oil and I have my wilted-ish roots, am I filling that jar about halfway with the roots or am I going all the way before I put my oil in, perhaps olive oil or whatever oil you want to use?
Corinna Wood: Yeah, about in between. I do about a two-thirds.
John Gallagher: Two-thirds.
Corinna Wood: Full with the wilted roots. When I'm making oils with fresh plants, I generally fill the jar first with the plant material and then again with the olive oil, but as you're indicating, since you're losing water, you don't need quite so much plant material. There's only so much that the oil can absorb.
John Gallagher: Let me ask you, Corinna, when you're making this oil, do you do what we do, which is we had this thing where we'll put a paper towel over the lid of the mason jar, and then screw on that band, and then let it breathe for a while while it's going through its six weeks or so. Did you do that or-
Corinna Wood: Oh, that's interesting. No.
John Gallagher: Did you just put those lids straight on?
Corinna Wood: Yeah, I put the lid straight on.
John Gallagher: Okay.
Corinna Wood: I do top it off a few times in the first few days and then maybe once or twice a week over the six weeks.
John Gallagher: Okay. Another thing, do you as well, do you use it for poultices, the roots?
Corinna Wood: Yeah, you can. The leaves are a little easier to access-
Tara Ruth: That makes sense.
Corinna Wood: ... when you have an acute situation where you want a comfrey poultice? So, I'll usually use the leaves, and I'll just pour boiling water over them and let it cool until it cools enough to the touch where it's comfortable to put it on, and then drink that liquid as well. So, it's kind of like making an infusion. Actually, you could also just start with a dried for poultices and then make basically comfrey infusion, which would be a cup of dried herb in a quart jar. Pour boiling water into the quart jar to the top, and then cap it, and let it sit for four to eight hours even, but at any point, as you strain it out in there, you'll then be getting properties that are still in the leaves themselves.
Corinna Wood: The longer you brew, the more it will come out into solution. Then, of course, that's depending on your comfort level with including the use of the internal benefits of those cell proliferative properties like if you had a sprained joint or tendon because it's really powerful even as the poultice, like you're saying, for those cell proliferative properties to help support with all kinds of issues with the connective tissues as well as the skin.
John Gallagher: So, if for comfrey infusion, do I use it also maybe as a nourishing infusion like you would nettle or essentially, you're saying that you mostly will use it when you've got some issue that needs some help, joint or whatever it was?
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I tend to use it for more specific issues, and it is nourishing for the lungs, but I also tend to turn to mullein as a primary-
Tara Ruth: Nice.
Corinna Wood: .... long infusion herb just because of comfrey's mixed reputation.
Tara Ruth: Totally. Another thing I think about with comfreys, not necessarily mixed reputation but just something to be mindful of is when we're working with wounds and what kind of wounds we want to be careful with with comfrey.
Corinna Wood: Totally.
Tara Ruth: Could you talk a little bit about that and its topical use?
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Yeah. How I think of it is that where those cell proliferative properties are so powerful that you can break off a teeny bit of root, grow a whole new plant, and when you put that, either salve or the fresh poultice either of the root or the leaf in contact directly with the skin, you're really encouraging that proliferation. The comfrey, the tissues that it's in contact with will regrow quickly. So, if you had, say a serious burn or a deep wound where you are at risk of healing it over and trapping infection inside, then comfrey is not the plant that I would work with. I would use something like plantain or yarrow that has more antimicrobial drawing actions.
Tara Ruth: That makes sense. Got it.
John Gallagher: I remember I used to use make comfrey root poultices by ... If you put the root in a blender or whatever, it just makes this this goop, right? I would take that goop, and I put it in juice concentrate molds like say, yeah, orange juice that you get the concentrate nice.
Corinna Wood: Oh wow.
John Gallagher: Stuff it into there, and put it in the freezer. Then, I'd take a serrated knife when it was frozen and then cut through that and then peel away the outer layer of the juice thing sort of like-
Corinna Wood: Wow, that's a really creative-
John Gallagher: Then, use these little discs.
Corinna Wood: Whoa.
John Gallagher: I don't know if somebody told me that or I made it up. I don't think I'm that creative. I think my mentor and your friend, EagleSong, probably told me that. I'm going to give her credit even though I'm not really sure.
Corinna Wood: It sounds likely.
John Gallagher: Sounds like something EagleSong would come up but ...
Corinna Wood: Ah, that's such a good idea.
John Gallagher: So, Tara.
Tara Ruth: Hi, John.
John Gallagher: I have a story.
Tara Ruth: Oh.
John Gallagher: A story to share. Yeah, it's a-
Tara Ruth: I would love to hear it.
John Gallagher: Well, it's a fall story, an autumn story because in, say Chinese medicine, there's the emotion associated with this time of year and the metal element is grief and sadness, things like that. So, feeling a bit of that right now because my little girl Hailey just went to college.
Tara Ruth: Oh, congratulations.
John Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
Tara Ruth: That's so big though. Wow.
John Gallagher: Yeah. I know it's big, but there's this transition. Also, fall's that time of transitions, so what was really ... For folks who might know Hailey from the Herb Fairies stories. She's in Herb Fairies if you have a Herb Fairies, or her middle name is Ren, Hailey Ren. There's a little picture of a Ren on a rowan tree on the Wildcraft game board, and Rowan is our son. So, I don't know if any parents who have had this experience or a lot of you perhaps with your own parents when you maybe went off to school or went off into the world, had this moment where you separated, a first big separation from your parents.
John Gallagher: So, Hailey's at Oregon State University and ... Go Beavers. So, she's in the Environmental Science program. That's what's she's studying. So, across the street from her dorm, we were parked in a parking lot across the street. So, we walked out of the dorm, and we're walking across the street, and there is a native plant garden there, which was amazing. Now-
Tara Ruth: Wow.
John Gallagher: A lot of these native plants that they have in this garden are medicinal friends of our family, growing up. I saw a lot of plants there that Hailey immediately identified like Oregon grape and pine and elderberry and plants like that. So, on the way to the parking lot part as we started to loop inside this trail, really nice trail, and we are at this kind of center, the main part where there's this beautiful bench and all and we sit down. You're not sure how to leave, right? You're not sure how to separate. You're just sitting there, and nobody really wants to go, but we have to go.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: She has something she has to do, and we have to get back and kind of in that moment. We look up, and we are under a really big rowan tree.
Tara Ruth: Oh, my gosh. I'm going to cry.
John Gallagher: I know. The berries are fully red and it's ... They're in their prime. It was one of the larger rowan trees I've seen. Now, rowan is a mountain, a Sorbus aucuparia, and that's a mountain ash, some of you may know it as. There are ones that were brought from Europe and-
Tara Ruth: Wow.
John Gallagher: ... lot of native ones, mountain ashes. So, there was a large Sorbus aucuparia right there, and it was like there's this moment where the whole family was together. That reminded me, I thought it felt like we were in the Wildcraft game first because that whole game in Herb Fairies are all designed around our kids. Those wouldn't be in existence if it wasn't for the experiences we had with our children, the cycles, the seasons, the spirals of the seasons and the herbs that we learn and the little rituals that we did every year after year. That's what Wildcraft is about and what Herb Fairies are about and what inspired those.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: Here we are on a trail that reminds me we're in a board game and going through the Wildcraft trail that just happens to be across from her dorm. This does not-
Tara Ruth: That is so surreal.
John Gallagher: Yeah. I mean, where else does that happen?
Tara Ruth: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
John Gallagher: You just think that feeling that you know she's in the right place when she ... Whenever she needs to, she can go out across the street and down the little trail and sit by that bench, and she has her brother right there, and she has her family.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: I know.
Tara Ruth: Oh, wow. It makes me think about just the relationships we build with the plants and how they're just woven into the fabric of our lives, and when we're in these intense moments of grief or transition or fall time of year, we can really look to the plants for guidance and support.
John Gallagher: Yeah. It just felt like they were just really there, really there for us for that moment. Who knew that people that planted that garden outside that, the Forestry Department building or whatever it is right there that knew that there would be people walking through who would have that experience with the work that they did in their gardens. So, it's pretty, pretty cool, pretty amazing. So, Kimberly and I walked away at that parking lot, just down that trail and sitting on the bench. We were all crying, and it just made it a lot more bearable to just ... because it was connected to the plants.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: So, I just want to share that little story. I don't know. I don't have much more. Sometimes, we talk a little bit about HerbMentor in this spot, but I'm just going to leave it at that story.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: I just wanted to share that story and really-
Tara Ruth: Totally.
John Gallagher: Thanks everyone for listening, and I think we'll get back to our awesome conversation with Corinna.
Tara Ruth: Let's do it. Awesome. I just love that we're talking about these plants like comfrey and poke that are so abundant. I feel really great harvesting these plants that just have-
Corinna Wood: Totally.
Tara Ruth: ... so much medicine that they offer. I think about you saying just a little bit of root can create a whole comfrey garden, and I totally did the same thing in my mother's garden.
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
Tara Ruth: Sorry, Mom. I planted a little piece of comfrey root a few years ago. I was sure it wasn't really going to take ... It had dried out for a day accidentally, and I just kind of put it in there, not really thinking. Then, sure enough within a few years, it was like, oh, there's lot of comfrey in this garden now. Yeah.
John Gallagher: Tara.
Tara Ruth: I know. Sorry.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I love the weedy wild plants and how they are just offering themselves in such great abundance and-
Tara Ruth: Absolutely.
Corinna Wood: ... food and medicine right here for us.
Tara Ruth: For sure.
John Gallagher: Yeah. We talked a bit about that, Corinna. People will often maybe be attracted to herbs, and maybe it's some exotic herb they see on a commercial or someone's talking to about or like some miracle cure, or they think of something out there, but really these wild, wild abundant plants, there's so much medicine in these that we can find just about everything we need to stay healthy with these abundant herbs, right?
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I mean, they're the plants that our ancestors evolved with, and just they're the plants that our, no matter where it was worldwide, that our ancestors were using herbs. Where we are now is, it's also, like those weeds are exposed to the same air and water and the same climate and challenges that we are. So, they can offer us that ability to thrive. I think of dandelion growing in the sidewalk cracks. She's just like, "Whoa. Here I am in truth and beauty in the middle of the city."
Corinna Wood: When I've lived in the city, I'll eat a little bit of, maybe it's like homeopathic dandelion. Mostly, I like to harvest in more pristine areas, and I've dug a lot of dandelion, yellow dock and burdock roots from actually fields of organic farmers around here when I was running Red Moon and making medicines with their weeds, and they love it because you'd come and get the root. You dig it from the root because they're wanting less although it's still going to keep coming, but I would try to help them out, take more out of the beds and at least leave them around the edges. So, yeah. I mean, even just those three herbs, and those are three that are coming up also in this root harvest season. Burdock, dandelion and yellow dock.
John Gallagher: Well, let's talk about burdock.
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
John Gallagher: So, yeah, what confused me, and if you could explain, Corinna, there's actually two years, right, to the process.
Corinna Wood: Oh, yeah.
John Gallagher: It's a little tricky on when you may harvest the roots of burdock, so maybe we could start there because we all know the plant from the burs that it releases, but we're harvesting roots after the burs are on it or-
Corinna Wood: Right.
John Gallagher: I'll leave it to you.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. So, when I was first getting to know the herbs as a college student and I was like, okay, I'm going to figure out what I can eat because that's going to motivate me to learn how to identify plants. So, there was a walk that I was often on. When I would come back, I would have burs, so I was like, okay, I think this is what is called burdock. So, then I started paying more attention, and I found the patch that was right along the walk. I was like, okay, next time, I brought my shovel. I dug up the plant that the burs were connected to, and it was this slimy black mass. I was, I don't know what these wild food people are talking about. I'm not eating that.
Corinna Wood: So, then I came to understand like, oh, this is the second year of this biennial plant's growth, and you want to harvest it in the first year, the winter of the first year. So, after the new seed has created this low rosette of leaves during the first summer and then sent the energy down into the root to store for the winter, so that's when you want to harvest it for food and for medicine because then, in its second year, it'll send up the flowering stalk and put the energy into the seeds. That's where it's just a slimy black mess that's left in the root.
Tara Ruth: Yum.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Those first year burdock roots are just such a deep taproot and so deeply nourishing in our bodies.
Tara Ruth: Wow.
Corinna Wood: They really support the internal organs, the liver, the kidney, the spleen. So, I kind of think of that deep taproot also inside, within, and that it's just a wonderful herb to ally with over the winter season.
Tara Ruth: How do you like to prepare burdock?
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Well, all the ways.
Tara Ruth: There's so many good ways.
John Gallagher: We got time.
Corinna Wood: Food is always, yeah, first choice with the edible herb like burdock. The roots are ... Actually, you can buy them in the supermarket or in natural food stores at the produce section. If you dig it yourself, it'll be even more potent. So, then you can include it in soups. You can use it like a carrot or stir fries. Then, to make medicine for the winter season or to use throughout the year, you could make a tincture, or you could dry the plant and receive the benefits as infusion.
Corinna Wood: I also like to make a vinegar. So, really, this is one that I make in a lot of different ways. With a vinegar, usually, when I make a vinegar, I'll steep it for six weeks, and then pour out the plant material, take out the plant material, and then you have the vinegar, and you put it on your table, but with burdock, I like to leave the roots in and then eat them. Think of them as burdock pickles.
Tara Ruth: Oh, my gosh. I want to do that.
John Gallagher: That's great.
Tara Ruth: It sounds so good.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. The process of making medicine in this fall time of year and making those burdock pickles just has this special place in my heart of just being out there on those frosty mornings as the leaves and the plants are ... There's so much dying back and letting go as the energy of the season's returning to the roots around you, and then connecting with the earth, and putting your hands into the dirt and the earth, and digging the roots, and then making those burdock pickles to enjoy over the winter season as well as any and all of the other forms of burdock.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: Yeah. There's really a ritual aspect to making things like that when you know that every year, you're going to your garden and digging up those long roots, digging way down and scrubbing them off and cutting them up, and that's something you do every year, and it's just ... I think that's where a lot of medicine seemed to come for our family over the years was in the, I don't know, the rhythms in knowing that you're going to do that every year, and then you really get to learn the plant and appreciate. It's like gaining a deeper appreciation for what the plant's about over time. It's hard to do that just if you work with it once, right?
Corinna Wood: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I always think of learning as a spiral and even the herbal rituals that you are referring to also are part of the spiral that we walk through life. So, it's like, okay, here we are, coming back around to this late fall root harvest season, and I'm harvesting the burdock roots or the comfrey roots. I'm remembering other times that I've done that or like the kids are a little older, and here we are in this phase. Yeah, I have some more hooks to hang it on. Oh, let me try this a little differently this time.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. We just continue to deepen that relationship with the plants, is just a lifelong learning adventure.
John Gallagher: It's like, for me, well, where I would pick elderberries every year with my kids as they were growing up was little up in the mountains, so it was sort of early September, late August depending on the year but is always this time of year, kind of part of those, that seasonal cycle, that spiral you mentioned. Oh, I just dropped our daughter off at college for the first time, and it was right across the street from her dorm is this little native plant garden in Oregon, at Oregon State University. There was an elderberry tree right there I took her picture in front of, and it was just like-
Corinna Wood: Totally.
John Gallagher: It was like part of the ... like it hasn't left.
Corinna Wood: Yeah, it's a fabric of our lives.
John Gallagher: The medicine is still around.
Corinna Wood: Yeah.
John Gallagher: Even though we weren't harvesting, it was right outside there, and it was-
Corinna Wood: Yeah, it's a new turn on the spiral.
John Gallagher: Absolutely. Well, Tara, I'm thinking about some questions maybe about that seasonal wellness and since we're talking about seasons and all. So, what do you think would be a good question, Tara?
Tara Ruth: Absolutely. Well, I guess before we dive into that, I wanted to say too, I'm thinking about how you were talking about, Corinna, how these plants that grow around us are, they have adapted to the environments that we're living in, so they offer us so much beautiful nourishment, the nourishment that we need in our environment. It's beautiful too, you're talking about roots at this time of year and just how the plants offer us the exact medicine that we need seasonally too. Oh, yeah, of course, we're going to want to make our elderberry syrup at this time of year as we get into cold and flu season. Of course, we're going to want to have some burdock to really nourish us and tide us over in the winter time. It's just all part of that beautiful spiral. I'm thinking about these rituals you're talking about at this time of year, and I'm curious if you have any other wellness rituals or herbal practices at this time of year that you'd love to share with us that really just help you feel rooted into this seasonal transition.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I'll just, before I dive into that, just comment on what you were just saying in terms of I also feel like we get so much more benefit when we do harvest medicines ourselves. So, I think we double the benefit of our burdock tincture or comfrey salve, just being out there and connecting with the plans because we're really getting-
Tara Ruth: Absolutely.
Corinna Wood: ... healing on multiple levels.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. So, let's see. In terms of other medicines that I like to focus on at this time of year, so those deep roots, the three that I mentioned are ones that I would consider really nourishing for over the winter time. You're getting that liver support, and when you support the liver, you're supporting the hormonal system and really, the whole filtration of the blood and kidneys as well. You'll get those benefits from ... I consider those three sister weed root medicinal herbs.
Corinna Wood: So, looking at that through a lens of nourishment rather than thinking of our bodies as somehow being dirty or needing to be cleaned, I love to look through that lens of nourishment where we're supporting the organs that filter our blood, our liver and kidneys. When those organs are nourished, that supports our optimum health. So, in addition to those, of course, supporting the lungs and two of my favorite ways to receive the benefits of a couple of lung herbs, both as infusions. So, I love to make mullein infusion, as I mentioned, with the leaves, dried leaves, and that would be putting a handful of the dried herb in a quart jar, covering it with boiling water, cap it, and let it sit overnight. Then, you strain out the plant material. You need to use a really fine strainer.
Tara Ruth: Yes.
John Gallagher: Oh, right. Yeah.
Corinna Wood: With mullein-
Tara Ruth: For sure.
Corinna Wood: ... because it has these little hairs, which is probably part of its magic at doing the air exchange and supporting our lungs because-
Tara Ruth: Totally.
Corinna Wood: ... it's like alveoli.
John Gallagher: Now, Corinna, with mullein, it also is a biennial plant like burdock, so with the leaves, does it matter which year in the rosette year or the stalk second year, which one you use?
Corinna Wood: I generally harvest when it is setting up in the stalk. I do it in the early flowering time, and it's partly because it's just easier because then-
John Gallagher: Yeah.
Tara Ruth: Totally.
Corinna Wood: ... you have a ready made drying rod. It's like that if you're doing drying comfrey to make oil with the leaves as well or nettle. All of those, I like to harvest before it's in its peak flowering phase where it's putting the energy into the flowers of the seeds, where it's still strong in the leaves and the stalks. I use the stalks as well.
Tara Ruth: Oh, cool. So, wait, do you use the stalks as medicine you said or-
Corinna Wood: Mm-hmm.
Tara Ruth: Wow.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Yeah, in general, the stalks have at least as much medicinal value as the leaves.
John Gallagher: Really?
Corinna Wood: They're like carrying the things that the leaves are.
Tara Ruth: That makes sense. Wow. Very cool. I've never used them before. Do you just like cut-
John Gallagher: No, I've never heard this. This is new-
Tara Ruth: Yeah. Can you tell us more about this, this hot gossip-
John Gallagher: Breaking news. You can use the stalks, everybody.
Tara Ruth: ... about the mullein stalk?
Corinna Wood: I do it too with marshmallow, which is the second lung herb I wanted to mention, which you can both harvest those leaf stalk combo in the summertime, in the early to midsummer before the marshmallow flowers. You can also harvest the roots in this late fall season after the frosts have sent the energy down below the ground. Marshmallow, of course, is not the candy, although it's the plant that was used originally in the candy, but it's actually a mallow they called marshmallow, and it's very mucilaginous and very nourishing for the lungs, and so especially if you have dry conditions, it's just a wonderful one. I do prepare it slightly differently. I know we've all-
Tara Ruth: Ooh. Can't wait.
Corinna Wood: There's lots of ways in folk herbalism. I prefer with marshmallow to prepare it as a cold infusion. So, rather than pouring boiling water over it, which is what I do for almost all of my infusion herbs, I just put cold water. That's my understanding of the best way to extract those beneficial mucilaginous properties with marshmallow. So, I just then leave it overnight at counter with that cold water, and then put it in the fridge, and like the mullein, it'll keep for a couple days. You can strain out the plant material and then reheat if you want to drink it warm or cold.
Tara Ruth: Beautiful.
Corinna Wood: Then, and the third one is broths. I love making-
Tara Ruth: Ah, yum.
Corinna Wood: I love making bone broth.
Tara Ruth: Yes.
Corinna Wood: You can also do it just with a vegetable base. I really see this as a central part personally of my immune support over the winter. The two herbs that are really the foundation of my bone broth and the reason that I started doing it in the first place because now, I like to throw in a bunch of others, which is I couldn't mention, but the two primary ones are reishi and astragalus. They're both just such deep immune herbs that you can extract as tinctures. My understanding is that you get even more benefit when you simmer them for a long time. So, I actually just leave my bone broth simmering for a couple of days, or I turn it on for a while and then off and back on over the course of a day or a couple of days. So, then you can also throw in onions actually, which are also very nourishing for the lungs, the quercetin in the onions, and of course, it makes it delicious, and seaweed or, yeah, other yummy herbs that are close to your heart.
Tara Ruth: Amazing. So, with the bone broth, are you just basically throwing in those bones, throwing in all those herbs, just putting a bunch of water over it and letting it simmer? Are there any other special steps in there?
Corinna Wood: That's basically how it rolls. Yeah.
Tara Ruth: Ah, great.
John Gallagher: It's simple.
Tara Ruth: Yes.
John Gallagher: Right? It's about simplicity.
Tara Ruth: Absolutely.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I like to use marrow bones. I use beef bones, but you can also do it with chicken bones or any other kind, but when I started eating meat again because I was vegetarian for a lot of years, I always am still very picky about where I get my meat from, and I want to get as local and organic and humane as possible. I actually feel like eating, getting the nutrients out of the bones, it actually is an ancient practice that-
Tara Ruth: For sure.
Corinna Wood: ... studies have shown that people in throughout many areas of the world have done in traditional cultures. I feel like it's also part of the respect to the animal. You're receiving so many nutrients and minerals, the gelatin, collagen that are available in the bones. Sometimes, I feel like I'm more passionate about making sure I get the bone broth than about eating the other parts of the meat.
Tara Ruth: Totally. Absolutely.
John Gallagher: Really good point. Really good point.
Tara Ruth: It's such a good medicine to be sipping on at this time of year and into the winter. That just deeply nourishing hot cup of bone broth is so good. Do you also like to add it as like a stock to soups, or do you do more of a sipping broth?
Corinna Wood: Both. I actually have a mug right here with me of my reishi astragalus broth that I just strained off of the stove.
Tara Ruth: That's so great.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I do use it in soups absolutely especially in the winter time for stews. You can also freeze in yogurt containers if you have more than you want to use at this time. It's actually amazing how long those broths keep in the fridge. They keep for a couple of weeks, so if you have even more though than you think you'll use in that time, you can always freeze it. Then, it's a really nice easy way to start a stew, soup or your burdock soup with your reishi astragalus bone broth or even with a vegetable base if you don't use the bones. You're still going to get so many benefits from those herbs.
John Gallagher: So, when I think about this time of year, Corinna, like in fall, nature is ... the leaves are going to are coming down, and the nature's composting the leaves and making new fresh soil and just like what do you see that's happening in nature as far as what's happening in ourselves and how we can take care of ourselves this time of year by looking at what's going on in the natural world?
Corinna Wood: Yeah, totally. So, we've been talking a bit. I've mentioned this as the Samhain season, which of course is the root of the modern day Halloween, so October 31st is considered the halfway point between the autumn equinox and the winter solstice. Those halfway points are markers that were traditionally celebrated in various cultures around the world. Actually, November 1st is still celebrated as the Day of the Dead in many Latin and Caribbean cultures. It is this time of year where we're nearing the end of the garden harvests. It's often considered the third of the three harvest festivals, so fall equinox being the one prior to it and then Lammas, which is the halfway point between the summer solstice and the autumn equinox being the first one. So, Lammas, equinox and then Samhain, being these three garden harvest festivals. Then, it's really the beginning of the root harvest of the medicinal herbs and that whole season.
Corinna Wood: I'm also wanting to clarify that it's not that is just one day. It's not just October 31st or November 1st. It's a general ... It's like a progression through time of moving from-
Tara Ruth: A spiral.
Corinna Wood: ... the fall equinox season. Yes, through the spiral to the Samhain season to the winter solstice season. This time of year, of course, is when the nights are getting longer, and the days are getting shorter. In this Samhain season, it's natural that we would be connecting with our ancestors or beloved dead as in the Day of the Dead as there are also vestiges in other ways in our modern day Halloween, skeletons and scary costumes and things. It is often considered a time when the veils between the worlds thin, and it's easier to have access to those spirit realms. I also see it as an opportunity for us to grieve and to mourn and to let go.
Corinna Wood: So, like the leaves all around are falling from the trees, many of our beloved plants are dying back, and so there is this natural progression of death in that spiral of growth, death, rebirth cycle. So, to acknowledge and honor our losses and the changes, that as happy as we may be, as much as we wanted that to change, there's always some grief and mourning with change and loss. Even in Chinese medicine, the lungs are considered to be associated with the fall season and also with grief. So, moving that grief through our bodies is in the holistic whole body, mind, spirit, heart combination part of the medicine that this season has to offer us.
Tara Ruth: Thank you for sharing, Corinna. It's been so beautiful learning from you today. I'm curious, do you teach any classes for our listeners who may be interested in learning more from you?
John Gallagher: This is such a cool perspective.
Tara Ruth: Yeah.
John Gallagher: I was raised in ... I was raised. I was not raised, but when I studied herbalism, my wife and I, our foundation was Wise Woman herbalism as well, and yes, I'd love to know what you teach.
Corinna Wood: Yeah. Thank you. So, I teach a yearlong program called the Year's Spiral, Wise Woman Heart and Soul Healing Through the Seasons. So, I include three areas as we go through each of the solstices, equinoxes, and then those halfway points in between, so that's eight total seasons. So, for each of those eight seasons, we go into, one, how the season is reflected in your inner landscape, and two, an herbal ally for the season, and three, a self-healing ritual, engaging those natural energies of the season. So, yeah. I'll put a link to the ... You can join the waitlist.
John Gallagher: Oh, yeah.
Corinna Wood: For the Year's Spiral, the doors open at Imbolc, which is the halfway point between winter solstice and spring equinox-
John Gallagher: Perfect. This is coming up, folks.
Corinna Wood: ... on February 1st.
John Gallagher: So, you were making a page for us, corinnawood.com/herbmentorradio, correct?
Corinna Wood: Yeah. I'll put also links to the comfrey and poke articles where there's some in-depth instructions on making the salves and using them safely.
John Gallagher: Well, that's so kind of you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us, and for our listeners, make sure, again, you check out Corinna at corinnawood.com/herbmentorradio. That was just wonderful. Thank you just so much. Appreciate it.
Corinna Wood: Oh, thank you. I really appreciate your invitation, and I really enjoyed connecting with y'all. Thank you so much to the listeners for listening. I'm really glad to be here.
John Gallagher: HerbMentor Radio is written and produced by John Gallagher and Tara Ruth. Sound Engineering by Zack Frank. Visit herbmentorradio.com to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and for information on how to be part of HerbMentor, your home for herbal education. HerbMentor Radio is a production of LearningHerbs.com LLC. All rights reserved. Thank you so much for listening.
