From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.
You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com. I'm John Gallagher. My guest today is doctor Patrick Jones. Doctor Jones is a veterinarian with a passion for natural health.
He grew up close to the land, and his interest in herbs eventually led him to treating animals with herbal remedies. He has a private practice and is also does formulation support and training for silver lining herbs. Patrick's wife, Lori Ann, is also an herbalist, and together, they have raised quite a large family. And Patrick and his family reside in Idaho.
You can visit him at HomeGrownHerbalist.net and check out Silver Lining Herbs at SilverLiningHerbs.com. Many of you know Patrick from the HerbMentor.com forum. He's a member there and, this might be the first time we've interviewed a member. So many people have had pet questions and I've just had the darnedest time finding someone who practices natural pet care.
And then I found the answer was right under right in my feet all along in her own forum. So welcome, Patrick.
Oh, it's great to be here.
You know, I was astounded at the number of questions that people had in the forum, pet questions.
It's the first time I ever asked for any, and I'm thinking, like, oh, there might be five or six people out there. And then they're, like, three without even asking anyone, they're, like, three pages overnight.
So we we apologize in advance here. I don't think we're going to be able to get to all of them. We'll do our best. But I think I have an idea on how to address this, and we'll mention that at the end, see if we can coerce Patrick here. So, first of all, I mentioned you had a large family, Patrick. How many kids do you have?
We have fifteen children. Four of those are homemade, and the other eleven were adopted. Most of them from Haiti.
Wow. That's amazing. So nice nice nice work. I I don't know how you how you did that, but how how how, are they all all in the house or different ages? Obviously, different ages, but, you know, some growing up or, like, where where is your how's this how's this work?
Yeah. I think, we're down to single digits at home. I think there's nine at home now.
All the rest of them are married or or in college.
We've got six grandkids now, and, and they're fun. So Wow. Yeah. It's it's been, it's been fun. They're they're good kids, and and it's been kind of an adventure.
So Wow.
That definitely is. I I just think beyond my two, and I go, oh my gosh. That's a good word.
Two's two's plenty hard too.
Especially when they're teenagers. So, Patrick, you're an allopathically trained veterinarian. And what prompted you to become an herbalist?
Well, I was always interested in plants and edible plants. I was an Eagle Scout and kind of a wilderness survival nut as a kid.
And edible plants lead to medicinal plants. And so I always sort of had that interest.
And I sort of used herbs, you know, in a very limited way myself, you know, a little slippery on when your guts are bad or a little peppermint or whatever, you know, nothing nothing very deep.
But, and then I served as a missionary down in Peru and and, you know, those people are very, very close to the ground in their lifestyles and they use a lot of verbal plants, and I benefited from a lot of those while I was there.
But, you know, I came back home, went to college, went to veterinary school, and I never really thought about it very much.
And then I had a a case. It was a dog that was in liver failure, and, she was just really this was probably fourteen, fifteen years ago.
Really, really in bad shape and there was nothing I could do for the dog.
And the owner was not ready to euthanize the dog. And so we were just sort of supporting her and had her own fluids and giving her whatever I could give her to keep her comfortable and try and help her.
And a buddy of mine came in and said, hey. Yeah. You know, he was just visiting and says, boy, what's going on with that dog? And I says, oh, she's just waiting to die.
You know? She's only I'm not doing anything for her, and I can't help her. And, he said, oh, you ought to call Mickey. He can straighten her out.
And Mickey Young is, was a friend of mine. I mean, not a close friend, but an acquaintance. I knew him from church and nice guy. And he's an old NFR, you know, world champion rodeo cowboy and, but but this guy said he was also an herbalist, which I didn't know. And so I called Mickey. I figured I got nothing to lose. Certainly, the dog has nothing to lose.
And, and Mickey says he comes over with Saturday. So I hope she needs a little of that number twenty seven and, gives me a bag of this green stuff and says squirt that in there every couple hours. She'll be alright. And And and I thought, oh, sure she will. You know?
So I, you know, I, it would be were just powdered herbs, and I mix them with a little water and syringe them into this old girl every couple hours. And the next day, that dog's eating, and the day after that, she's going home.
And so I was pretty startled by that, frankly.
And you can never discount the little three year old kid praying at home and those kinds of things. You know? I mean, stuff happens.
But the thing that was most startling to me was the next time I saw Mickey, I says, hey, Mick, that dog got better. And he he looks at me and just, oh, yeah.
You know? Well, of course. Sure. You know? Exactly.
That's just the way I've never mastered that nonchalance. You know, I feel every time something cool happens, my jaw drops to the floor and I feel like, wow. Really? That's so cool. You I got to work on my poker face.
But anyway, so I started using more and more herbs in the practice and started using some of his formulas. He didn't have any dog formulas at the time, but he was doing horse work.
And, you know, over the years, he and I developed a real close working relationship, and and I got really serious about educating myself about herbs and using different herbs in the practice. And, you know, after several years, I said, look, Mickey, we need to do a dog line. You know, we're dogs aren't little horses. And so we, he said, okay.
And then, you know, I didn't have time and he didn't have time. And then several years ago, he finally came to me and says, look. You just gotta do it. The the people are driving me crazy.
So so we, developed dog line also at that time. But, you know, there's just a lot of things, that I can do with herbs that I can't do with pharmaceuticals or surgery.
So what what what are those things? Like, are they common things to or more advanced things?
You know, I can modern medicine is really great at killing things and cutting things off.
Really great at that.
They're really great at controlling organs and making organs not do things they don't want them to do.
But they're very poor at nursing. They're very poor at supporting. They're very poor at tonifying and cleansing.
They have nothing for accelerating healing or tissue growth. And so it's I had a case and I've had several cases like this, but I had a dog, a Labrador that, I know it was an older Labcross and his owner was out in the backyard, this old lady and visiting with her friend, and a pit bull attacked these two ladies.
And so, you know, the old lab is gonna have none of that. So he jumps in there to say, mom, and this dog just tore him to pieces.
So they bring me the dog, and his legs his two back legs are just really, really, very, very damaged. And I took him to surgery right away to try and put stuff back together. And when I was all done, I could see that that the circulation was so compromised in his legs that he was gonna lose a lot of tissue.
Mhmm.
And then and and so I stand there and I say, okay. Well, as a veterinarian, as an allopathically trained veterinarian, I have two options for this dog. And sure enough, I've got antibiotics and I've got surgery and that's all I've got. I can kill the bugs and I can sew things back together.
And sure enough, the next morning, that dog was, you know, like, very clearly had a lot of dead tissue, and lost about, you know, on on the one leg, he had dry bone on three sides of his femur. Okay. And that's how much tissue he lost.
And there was just enough skin and circulation to keep his foot alive on that last quarter of the bone, on that last surface. And you know, as a as a veterinarian, I said to the owner, I have two options for your dog. I can cut his leg off or I can euthanize him, you know, But there's nothing else I can do, because there's no way to, you know, there's no there's not enough tissue to do any grafting. There's not a there's it's just not gonna happen.
I said, but as an herbalist, there's a lot of cool things we can try and if you're up for it, let's try it. And so for the next three months, I'm doing comfort poultices and I'm doing plantain internally and externally to draw toxins out and using those kinds of things that are completely alien to allopathic medicine.
And that dog was in here the other day and it was years and years ago. And and he's, you know, he's walking on those legs and and has no issues at all. And I've I've had a lot of cases like that, really serious grizzly wounds where I can use herbs and do things I can't do, medically.
Right. And and is there any is there any issues, like, you know, like in in your practice and in your scope of I I I'm probably not the scope of licensure, but you know what I mean? Sometimes, like, there can be issues with people using, you know, medical people using herbs or herbal you know, is there you can just kinda do what you want there?
I can do anything I want because I've because I've got the letters at the end of my name. Mhmm.
I do know how to diagnosed and I prescribe.
Yeah. There is there is a standard of care requirement.
And so if I, you know, if I, if I had a dog that had something for which there was, an adequate treatment medically and I used something other than that on him and it didn't work out, then theoretically the owner could prosecute me for not following the standard of care. Right. You know? Right.
You know, I don't I don't have issues like that because I don't do things that I don't know are going to work. And usually and I don't use one to the exclusion of the other either.
But I had a case another case not a couple of years ago. It was another bad wound case in another Labrador, but the guy had tied his dog up in the back of the pickup and but had too much rope. And so the dog jumped out of the pickup and was hanging over the side and he got tangled up in the back tire and it it just was like a belt sander and it took off a great deal of tissue off his one of his legs and actually about a third of the bone. I mean, it was just like a barrel sander.
Sanded it right flat and the guy was intoxicated at the time.
And he took the dog home and watched it for three or four days to see how it would do.
And so by the time I got the dog, he's septic. He's got a fever of one hundred and six. He's not able to stand, very, very sick. And so that dog, I put him on an IV and I started IV antibiotics because that's standard of care and he really was in a desperate situation.
But I also did some herbal stuff with him and we took the dog from the gentleman and he agreed to give us the dog in exchange for me not prosecuting him for it.
But that dog, the antibiotics were not effective on him at all. He was on IV antibiotics throughout three days, two different antibiotics and and had no no response at all. Wow.
And I was also doing some herbal stuff with him and and not kind of getting what I wanted. And so finally, I said, well, he's got osteomyelitis. I mean, the the infection is in the bone. I've got to get the solution into the bone. And so, I just I took, Calendula and Golden Seal and I smeared those right onto that exposed bone marrow.
And twelve hours later, his fever was gone and he was on the mend.
And we essentially with Comfrey and other vulnerary herbs, we almost just essentially grew that dog a new leg. You know?
And you don't have to give the dog anything internally, just just just putting the No.
No. No. And I was doing internal herbal stuff too. Sure. I was doing stuff stimulate the immune system and and fight infection.
Which herbs internally? What were a couple that you can remember?
Well, we were using, I actually used one of the silver lining firms on that particular dog and I spiked it with a little extra echinacea.
But it has barberry and some of the berberine things and Chaparral and some other antimicrobial It does sound just I find it.
It sounds just like the pet version of the herb first aid course that do a seven song whereas when I when I watch him treat people, it's very similar. All the herbs you're mentioning, it's great.
And you'll find that for the most part veterinary herbalism is derived from human herbalism. So there's a lot of similarity. There are some things you have to be careful with. But yes, so we did that. We did a lot of plantains or pulling the toxicity out of them, diuretics, dandelion.
Trying to think what else And you put all the like, if you put herbs like the, you know, internally, like the arrow, dandelion, whatever other herbs, are you just mixing it into food or what?
Or you Yeah.
If they'll eat if they'll eat, then I just put it on their food. And and dogs are really great about that.
It's very rare that I find a dog that won't take powdered herbs just on their food.
Powdered. Because dogs are pretty good.
And so that's the way to get a little foo foo dog that just won't.
And and, you know, and sometimes then we're doing some encapsulation or some or just drenching them with it with a syringe full of water. You know?
Oh, right.
And then And they can eat.
And and is that is that the way you like to get the, like, you know, healthy herbs into or, you know, in a diet is mostly powdered and mixing it in?
Sure. Yeah. Exactly.
Now cats are different. Cats are a whole different story.
And cats almost without exception will not eat herbs.
And so they're, you know, that that gets to be more of an adventure.
Well, you know, we have some different, you know, I had some questions, but I was just thinking, there are so many questions that people have that I think we can cover them as we're going along with people's cases. So I wanna do some case study stuff?
Sure.
Yeah. Alright. So, I'll, you know, I think I'll just I'll just say people's names, the first names, because it makes it more personable that way. So Denise had some questions, and, I'm just gonna go and order folks here of how they were submitted because that's the fairest I could think of since I know we can't get through them all. So she has a fifteen year old, blind and deaf, Pekingese that has been diagnosed with canine cognitive dysfunction and would appreciate any suggestions on how she could treat this.
Well, I would treat that very much the way I would treat it in a person, and the same sorts of herbs for that cognitive stuff, that are beneficial for people are gonna be beneficial for the dogs.
I can't think of any that are contraindicated.
Dinko and they're actually finding some kind of interesting things with lemon balm and human dementia cases. So I've been using that.
I haven't had a lot of cognitive dogs.
I have had a few over the years and I think we've helped them a little bit. I did have one dog that was and I don't know if he was a cognitive dog, but he was certainly a nervous system issue. It was a little Irish Setter puppy, and the lady brought him in, this was, I don't know, probably two years ago.
And, he was really neurologically challenged. He was about eight weeks old and he wasn't walking. He would just sort of lay on his belly and paddle and he couldn't really do anything. And, she was very, very emotional and and, really couldn't, you know, really, really upset.
And I could see that euthanasia was gonna be really upsetting to her. And I said, well, look, why don't we try some herbal things? We have nothing to lose. Let's try something.
And so we we, we actually use the, on that case, we just use the silver lining.
They've got a central nervous system support for us that that I worked up, and it's, you know, it's all the usual suspects for brain stuff. Mhmm.
And and some other things too in there. But, anyway, I put him on that, and he he got markedly better.
And, you know, within a couple of weeks was was walking pretty good and and, he's a little klutzy, but he was doing pretty good. And so I called his his owner. I says, let's come get this dog. He's driving me crazy.
You know? And so she came in, and I was I was just about to explain to her that he's still really kinda uncoordinated and goofy. And I, you know, I I mean, it's a miracle he's walking at all and and functioning, but, you know, I mean, don't expect too much because he's really kind of a klutz. And and just as I said that, they brought his brother in, and and he was walking exactly the same.
Never mind. He's just a a twelve week old Irish setter.
They're all like that, I guess. But anyway, yes, so for the cognitive stuff, certainly Ginkgo, certainly ginsengs. The ginsengs have some good central nervous system benefits.
And I would try lemon balm too and see if if that does any good.
And and once again, the method would be a pow like powders of these herbs and mix it again in with the food or if they don't take it encapsulating?
Yep. I would just put it if it's a dog, I would just put right on his food. And and like I say, nine times out of ten, they'll just eat that and not give it a second thought.
Well, now where Denise has also goes moves to her cats, she has five cats, and they're passing around an upper respiratory infection. Infection. I don't know if they still have it or not because but but she gets one cat cured and another comes down with it. So how can she help this? And also, how would she administer it?
Well, cats are harder.
You know, I always tell people that are giving herbs to cats to get their affairs in order before they do it. You know?
Because cats are very resistant.
Sometimes you can mix, sometimes you can mix herbs with canned food, and they'll and they'll take it. And sometimes I do that with the dogs. Too. If I get a dog that's fastidious, you know, we'll put a little canned food with it, and then they'll go for it. Or baby food is is useful sometimes. And some cats will eat it and some cats won't. It just depends what the herbs are too.
You have to remember that a cat's sense of smell is vastly better than a dog's sense of smell. And they're also much more opinionated. And so it can be a little bit of an adventure to get herbs into them.
And also with cats, they're really, really objective tinctures.
You can give a dog a tincture, an alcohol tincture, and they'll, you know, they don't like it, but they'll take it. If you give a cat an alcohol tincture, you know, it's they're foaming at the mouth for twenty minutes and acting like they're gonna die. I mean, they're really hating it and having a bad experience.
So you're there's just nothing you can do with the cat?
I mean, there's things you can do. And so what's what do you do? Well, you I mean, I would I would use the same sorts of respiratory and immune stimulating herbs that you would use for a human.
Mhmm.
I I don't think any of those are contraindicated for that.
Garlic maybe?
Yeah. A little garlic. You know, echinacea is great for estragalus for stimulating immune system. Mullen, all of those things are super.
One of the other problems with cats is that a lot of those upper respiratory snotty, sneezy cat things are viral.
And so then you're looking at, you know, herbs that have effect against viruses, and, you know, Powder Arco comes to mind.
But the other thing that you have to do is they have to realize is that there's a lot of erosion sometimes in the tissue. And so the the mucus membranes lining the sinuses get eroded, and and you can kill all the bugs.
And then two weeks later, they'll have it again. Mhmm. You know? And so some of the sinus cases can be really frustrating. The other problem with sinus issues is that it's hard to get anything into the sinuses. It's it's It's, anatomically and physiologically, the sinuses are designed to be a real barrier between the body and the outside world. And so, it's hard to get herbs or medications to cross that sinus barrier.
You know? But, you know, I suppose and I have never done it. I suppose a person could maybe try an infusion and do nose drops directly, but, gee, that would be a lot of fun with a cat. You know? Another thing that that you could try that that works fairly well would be a glyceride with cats. As As long as it's not a bad tasting herb, they'll take a glyceride.
Or you can mix honey with it. Some cats will do honey. You can make in fact, one of the gals on the forum mentioned making little honey balls and and mixing the herbs with it and and just poking those into the kitties, and and that that works fine if, you know, if that'll if the kitty will let you do that.
Okay. Okay. Great. What about, treating ear mites in cats?
You know, I don't have any, good advice for that herbally. There's there's there are some plants that are supposed to have, insect repelling properties.
Neem neem oil is one of them, pennyroyal. You know, there's there's some other things like that. But the the problem with them is that you would have to do it so frequently that I don't really think it's practical. Mhmm.
Even just even just olive oil, will mechanically kill the mites. I mean, it plugs up their little respiratory systems and will kill them. But again, it's a that's going to be the slow long way to do it.
Okay.
But I suppose if someone was absolutely determined not to use a pharmaceutical for that, they could try those sorts of things.
What about, hairballs? She, the Kimber has two cats, an eighteen and a sixteen year old.
And Everybody had hairball question, didn't they? Yeah.
There's a lot of hairball questions. There's a lot. She hates giving the store bought stuff. So what what because she's like coconut oil, butter, what could be happen? What could work?
That's right. Well, both of those are okay, for the cat. As far as nutritionally, they won't hurt the cat.
The coconut oil or coconut butter?
Yeah. Either way.
How how is that given? You just give it to him? Like, I'm trying to figure this out.
Oh, yeah. So with their food, yeah, mix it with some candy. But but it will cause you know, that's gonna loosen up that stool, and then that may that may cause you more grief than the hairball in the middle of your kitchen. You know?
Good point. Good point.
But, you know, the other things, you know, pumpkin. A lot of animals I use a lot of pumpkin in my practice, just canned pumpkin.
And, and that can be a great natural bulking laxatives. A little psyllium in their food is another great natural bulking laxative.
And you can try all those things too.
Or if that doesn't work, you can certainly use the hairball medicine. I don't have a big problem with that personally. But and I think it's more effective than any of the other things.
But, yeah, somebody was really determined not to use anything that wasn't that didn't grow on a tree, then, pumpkin would be great. And, you know, a little psyllium might be worth trying to.
Okay. Okay. So now we go on Susan who, wants to know if there's specific herbs that are not safe to use with dogs or cats, like either one of them? Like, ones you should just kinda maybe, you know, make sure you don't use.
Right.
There are some things the physiology of dogs and cats in some ways, in some specific ways is very, very different than humans. And so, yes, we could like grapes, for example, are very toxic to some dogs.
Not that they're medicinal particularly, but grapes and raisins, you can kill a dog with grapes and raisins, which is not very many of them. Wow.
Because their physiology, the enzymes in their body break them into different chemicals than the enzymes in our body break them into.
And the ends of that chain is very toxic and it destroys their kidneys.
So there's things like that. Dogs are and cats both, you have to be careful with garlic and onions, anything in that family.
And I any of the alliums, but I use them and I think if you use them in moderation, garlic. I mean, I use a lot of garlic and find it very effective in humans. And in my human herb consulting practice, I use garlic. But, you can't use garlic and onions at the volumes in dogs that you can in humans. It will cause some pretty significant blood problems, anemia and problems with their red blood cells. So, just be aware of that.
Tea tree oil should never be used on cats and should be used cautiously on dogs, especially little dogs.
You can have some real serious toxicities there. I'm not a big fan of any essential oils on on dogs or cats Mhmm.
Especially cats, because just because of the sensory overload that it would represent. You know? I mean, when you when you consider the olfactory capability of a cat, you know, compared to a human, putting a putting an essential oil on a cat would be like putting an air horn next to your ear. You know, it would just be a a very big experience for that cat, and and Right. I just don't know how I don't know how good an idea that is. You know?
People do use them on dogs, and I don't have a huge problem with with that usually in the dogs, but I I wouldn't use essential oils on cats, unless it's a pretty mild one.
Right. Not even like a little bit diluted a lot?
Yeah. And if you well, yeah. And that's what I was gonna say. If you if you were going to use it, I would dilute it a lot Okay. For a cat or a dog. Yeah.
There's a lot you can do making a strong herbal tea of of of awesome herbs out there. We don't even need the essential oils.
So And I don't yeah.
I don't personally, I don't use essential oils at all.
But if you know, I know a lot of people do, so I would just have that caution for him.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I have a little question here is that, in a in a, let's say, a dog's diet since it's easier to get herbs in dog.
Is there, like, some herbs you like to you know, kinda like how we talk about on on on our mentor about doing that nourishing herbal infusion with nettles and burdock and all that. Do you have a kind of formula you like to kind of put in with the dog's food or something that are similar kind of idea, like a regular kind of health building formula?
Sure. And I think that some of the ones you just mentioned are great. The nettles, the burdock, the dandelion root, all of the alfalfa, oatstraw for some of them, but it's all those nutritive herbs, especially the really deep rooted herbs that are pulling up those micronutrients.
I think those are great. And people underestimate the amount of plant material that carnivores consume in the wild. We always think, oh, they're meat eaters. What do you get plants for?
But if you watch a pack of wild dogs or wolves or lions or any of those big predators, when they take down a prey animal, the first thing they do is is they eat that that gastrointestinal tract, you know, on a on a on a deer, that's that's a twenty gallon vat of fermented plant material. Wow. You know? So they always go to the salad bar first and, and then they eat the rest of the year, you know.
But they're eating a lot of cereal in the wild, you know.
And that and that must be the cheap way to do it too because, I mean, you could probably there's pet places or whatever. They'll probably sell you things you can put in the mix in the food. But if you just get your you know, the herbs you're using for your own infusions and then have some that you grind up. Right? It shouldn't be too hard.
Absolutely. Anything for the most part, anything you're using on yourself as a tonic or a nutritive is gonna be just great for your pets, and you don't need to worry about it.
Well, that's that's that's easy.
Yeah.
So let's see. Morgan has a twelve year old female Cocker Spaniel spayed in great health, perfect weight wise. But last year, she was diagnosed with degenerative myelopathy, and she's wondering if there's any ways she can combat it naturally.
There's nothing that vets can do, she says, so I was curious about herbals. So is that true there's nothing vets can do? I mean, you're a vet.
Yeah. No. There's nothing vets can do for that.
And I don't know, herbally, I don't know. I have never addressed a case like that. So I wouldn't have any personal experience with it.
I guess, I have seen some pretty remarkable neurologic improvement in cases, but not because of a degenerative myelopathy. So I guess, there are some herbs that are really good for nerve regeneration. Ashwagandha is one that I use a lot, which is Withania is the genus.
And it does have some very good nerve restoring healing properties in the literature and in my experience.
I might try that. I'll let your caucus is also a good one study. Sugaring ginseng has some properties like that.
So I would that would probably be a starting point for something like that. But I've seen dogs that have had nerve injury, serious nerve injury that have responded well to nervines and nerve healing herbs.
But I haven't like I said, I doubled the degenerative myelopathy. So that's a tough deal.
That's a tough one. Right. Right.
That's what I would start I would certainly have that dog. If it was my dog, I'd have him on some ashwagandha and some ginkgo and some eleutro and and, I mean, it certainly won't hurt him any. You know?
There's probably some things you can cut. Well, I don't know what the diets are, but I mentioned that it probably helped helped dietarily. Right? Just as well a little bit maybe just for making sure your voice Yeah.
Absolutely. And I mean I mean, anything you can do to to improve the dog's overall health and condition is is you know, more often than not, if you give the body what it needs nutrient wise, it'll fix itself. You know?
Right. Right. Okay.
That's so There also there also might be some, some things to think about with with oils in the diet and fats in the diet, to restore some of that stuff because that's what all that stuff is made out of. And there's been some really interesting research on like Lou Gehrig's disease and stuff where they really increase the amount of fats and the quality of the fats that the guys are getting and it really seems to help with some of those things.
So Right.
So maybe, like, omega threes and things like that. Oh, okay.
Alright. That's thank you. So, hey, Abby. Here's the question I think a lot of people are wondering.
She, dries her garden catnip and sometimes treats her three cats to a handful of dried leaves. The cats become very wild and playful and they entertain her. I noticed that they eat most of it. From an herbalist perspective, is catnip beneficial? If so, what are the specifics and applications?
Well, catnip's a great herb. Catnip's a great herb for for like, all the mints. It's in the mint family, and all the mints are great for belly aches and stomach complaints.
Catnip also has some mild, in humans, it has some mild calming, not quite to the degree of sedating, but calming effects, you know, nice kind of bedtime tea.
For cats, neurologically, it's a little different, and it's a it's a lot more intoxicating for cats than it is for humans.
They really like it. But, no, catnip's fine for cats. I use catnip in, I have a formula for for anxious animals, thunderstorm anxiety and separation anxiety and even aggressive dogs. Most aggressive dogs are anxious dogs and catnip's in that formula. And so it's it's a calming herb for those for dogs. And for cats, it just makes them drunken silly.
It's too bad it doesn't work that way for us. It would be so easy. We wouldn't need to go buy alcohol or anything.
We just go out in the garden and roll into the cat.
Alright.
So Regina was, just thinking about, herbal natural care for her two cats. So one more more cat questions. So let's see. She has a question about waste.
What are good natural options for kitty litter, especially what to do in the with the waste matter when I need to clean it up. I usually end up using plastic bags, but I'm trying to get out of the habit of plastics, that aren't necessary. Any tips to clean out, dispose the litter in an earth friendly way? I think it's probably a lot of people would like to know this.
Yeah.
I there are I mean, a lot of the litters that are made are made out of clays and calons and things and those are all natural materials.
But also there's you can get litters that are made of corn cob or you can get litters that are made of there's one called Yesterday's News that's made from recycled newspaper and they're little pellets.
So there's products like that.
But even the clay ones are is I mean, that's just dirt. It's just clay. It it's all natural and has no side effects.
Right. Right. Right.
And she doesn't wanna use the plastic bags, so I wonder I don't know. Is there any way I mean, I mean, it's not really something. You definitely can't put anything like that near your on your compost.
Yeah. No. You don't want it in your compost. There are some pretty serious pathogens, from cat poop people.
So you wanna avoid that. But, no. I don't know as far as I mean, I I guess you could around here, you could haul out and toss it in the desert with all the other dirt, I guess, But I don't know where she lives. Yeah.
She says she lives in an urban area. So I don't know what she could do with that one. I mean, I guess if you had a big huge yard, you could dig a big hole and have a special area.
I mean, it oh, it's all biodegradable. The the newspaper stuff and the corn cob stuff is biodegradable. So if you put it in a biodegradable container, I guess you could sleep at night and not feel like you were being unkind to the earth or whatever.
So And there are plenty of natural pet care stores now. If not, you can get things online that I've seen all over the place now, at least in my area.
Let's see. Cynthia, she has three oh, boy.
She's Shizu? What's that? A dog?
Shizu zoo?
Shizu. Yeah.
I am not a pet person. I'm sorry. I'm like, what's that? I should Google. I could have Googled it, folks. I did not do my homework. So, and one is allergic to fleas, and she has been diagnosed with flea allergy dermatitis.
Any natural way to treat, prevent, flea flea allergy dermatitis?
Yeah. Some dogs some dogs are allergic to the saliva of the flea. I mean, really very allergic. And so, you know, I used to have a dog like that. I had a little shelter and, you know, if he got one flea bite, he'd blow his whole coat and just be an itchy, greasy mess. You know?
And so the ways to get around that, obviously, first of all, is to prevent the fleas from biting them.
And again, there just isn't a really great herbal way to do that other than there are like the neem oils and some of those things if you want to spray your dog every four hours, but then you start worrying about toxicity with that even.
So there are products on the market that are good for keeping fleas off dogs.
I don't like the collars. I don't like flea collars, but some of the topical products are effective and fairly safe.
I would get the ones from veterinarians not the ones that you can get at the grocery store because some of the ones at the grocery store are very toxic and hard to get off if you have a problem. So, but that said, the next thing is is just addressing the allergy.
Most of the symptoms of an allergy are caused by histamines.
So, like when we have an allergic thing, we take antihistamines to make us stop sneezing and whatever it is.
With humans, most of the histamine releasing cells are in our mucus membranes and sinuses and upper respiratory. So when we have an allergic response, we tend to sneeze and wheeze and ball.
With dogs, most of their histamine releasing cells are in their skin and they're very highly concentrated in their ears and in their feet. And so when dogs are allergic to something, they get ear infections and they chew their feet and they itch.
And so what all you can do for that is the solution for that is to get the histamines eliminated and the liver is the organ that eliminates histamines. And so usually when I have an allergy dog, I will put them on liver supporting herbs, Oregon grape or barberry and liver restoratives like milk thistle that just support and make the liver happy.
And dandelion root is another great one.
But those sorts of things can really reduce the symptoms in some dogs. Now my experience with allergy dogs is that you know, most of the herb formulas, you know, if if a dog comes in and I'm gonna do something herbal, it's it's just a slam dunk. The herbs work, and I don't have to worry about it. Mhmm.
With the allergy dogs with the allergy dogs, I would say it's more like maybe a half to a third of those dogs have a really great response because I think some of the dogs are allergic to the herbs too, and then you're just done. You know what I mean? And so, you know, some of those cases, it seems like in in my practice anyway, your dog comes in real itchy. And I say, well, let's try these herbs on him.
And half to a third of those owners come back and they just think I'm the greatest guy in the world and a genius and the other ones are saying, well, nothing happened. So and that's just the way it is. Most dogs that have allergies are allergic to all kinds of things.
And I think a lot of that hyper allergic condition in dogs is from the diet we're feeding them. We're feeding them things that dogs have no business eating.
Dogs are eating mostly corn, which is just not dog food.
And also, I think they're getting over vaccinated a lot of them. And so their immune systems are just all wound up and they decide they're allergic to life and then they're tough, you know.
So I tried the herbs on them and some of them were very successful. A lot of them you just have to do other things. You have to do pharmaceutical and histamines or cortisone or things like that. But for the ones that they work for, they work well.
And and the ones that they work for, for, you know, both fleas and ticks, I guess, you could say. What would be, like, what would be a good, you know, general natural remedy treatment for such a thing?
Well, again, I don't have anything for for keeping them off. You know?
So we're just I mean, like I said, there are herbs, neem oil and pennyroyal and there are herbs like that that you hear about. But there just aren't any practical, really practical applications for any of those things, in real life. And so, we just haven't had any luck with that.
But once they have them, though, I mean, you know, just like a bath in certain herbs, if which ones you'd use?
For for what now?
Well, let's say fleas or if they have them already versus Yeah.
If they have fleas, you know, there's there's there's there's really not an herbal solution for that. I mean, people talk about brewer's yeast and they talk about diatomaceous earth and, all those things can be beneficial. Diatomaceous earth will kill fleas.
It just scratches the wax off their little cuticle off their skin and they dehydrate and die just like we use a lot of diatomaceous earth in our garden for squash bugs and stuff and it really does kill them. And it's perfectly benign. It won't hurt the dogs at all.
But I mean, how practical is it to douse your dog with diatomaceous earth every day? And how pleasant is that for you or the dog to have him laid on the couch and having diatomaceous earth all over everything.
So you really just have to do what's convention like your regular oil?
I think we just use I just use regular products for flea control veterinary products. And, we don't have a huge flea problem in Idaho. I know in some parts of the country, it's just a disaster, you know, and and anywhere warm and wet, it's it's just flea heaven.
So the other thing to do with the fleas is to treat the environment.
The fleas have a lifecycle like a fly or a butterfly where they have a complete metamorphosis. And so the larvae of the fleas living in leaf litter in your yard and in your carpet and those and the sofa. And so, if you have a chronic flea problem on your property, then clean up the property, get rid of all the leaf litter and stuff and places that are a good place to be a baby flea and, you know, throw a throw a flea collar in your vacuum bag so that when you vacuum them up, they die, you know, and those kinds of things. I'd I'd much rather have a flea collar in your vacuum bag than on your dog. You know? Wow.
That's a good tip.
But, you know, things like that. So, but, yeah, it's, fleas are tough. Fleas are a tough problem.
How about, another common situation is a heartworm. Any prevention treatment tips for that?
Heartworm is, there is some evidence that black walnut has some efficacy against heartworm.
I haven't seen enough studies to convince me that it's worth risking a dog's life on that. And again, black walnut is mildly toxic to dogs. And so at the levels that we'd have to give it and the frequency we'd have to give it, then you start getting into those problems too. So I do use I do use herbs, to warm dogs.
I don't use herbs to prevent heartworm.
Okay. So I I would say I would say stick with the pharmaceuticals on that.
This is a great advice right from the vet. I mean, which which where where herbs are great and also where you stick with the pharmaceuticals. So it's Yeah.
I think there's a lot of polarity, with the whole herbs versus medicine thing and it's just silly. The doctors are dumb for not embracing the herbs and the herbalists are dumb for not embracing the drugs once in a while. It's there's there's there was a really smart guy named the apostle Paul, and he said, prove all things hold fast that which is good. You know? Mhmm. And so, it's okay.
I tell people they come in here and they've got a the dog's got a tumor and they want me to do something herbal because I'm an herbalist. And I say, no. Let's just cut it off.
You know? Stainless steel scalpel blades are all natural and they have no side effects. Let's cut that down.
Well, you know, it's a saying in in in my experience, go to my, naturopathic physicians, my primary care, and he's he refers me out to MDs all the time for different things. Not all the time. Sorry. And I'm always on the diet, but you know what I mean. There's a couple situations where he said, alright. You want to go get a test here because these people can do it?
They can't do. And there's things they can do. We can't do it. I had a guy in here several months ago that had been bitten on the hand by a dog.
And his hand was really, really swollen and septic and he's getting some really nice looking red lines going up his arm from blood poisoning and really was in bad shape.
And he'd been to his physician and the physician gave him an antibiotic and then told him, if you don't find a good herbalist, you're going to lose that hand.
And so he came he said, I know just the guy. So he came to me. He figured it was a dog bite. I was the guy.
So but he was he came in and we put him on plantain was the main thing and some other immune stimulating nerves and stuff. But I did a plantain poultice for him and had him taking plantain orally every couple of hours for twenty four hours. And he called me the next day and said his hand was great. It was normal size.
He was feeling really good and he thought it was going to be okay. And I saw him about a week later and it looked fantastic. You know, he still had the holes in it from the dog teeth, but Right. It was vastly better.
Oh. And so, you know, there's things, that's a physician locally here who gets it that there's stuff that herbs can do that are really beneficial and why not. Why not augment and practice complementary medicine instead of exclusive medicine.
Exactly.
So, let's see. Kyoki here, she has a, she's on the forum a lot. Anyway, I know her from there. She has an older dog who's about eight, and she has a terrible skin condition and, might be manged, but no vet can tell. She can't afford all the testing, but she's lost a lot of weight and she's got, terrible flaking, sometimes chewing until she bleeds, and thick green scabs inside her ears as well.
We've been using a spray from the feed store and it seems to help, but also so but it's also associated with spontaneous sores on her leg.
So she she says, I first thought she's been cut, but they just sort of appear overnight, these sores, these spontaneous sores.
We're taking her to the vet as soon as we get tax money. But in the meantime, where there's some good ways to treat skin conditions. She says she eats high quality dog food.
So there you go.
Skin treating the skin conditions.
That a dog with that kind of a presentation is one of two things. It either is a severe allergy, and they will present that way with just a really horrific seborrhea and greasy, nasty skin.
And it gets real callousy and scaly and horrible. And they get sores. Some of the sores are just from self mutilation from scratching so much, and chewing. And and some of the sores are just that the skin is so compromised that it can't do its thing anymore.
So those are really severe allergy dogs you would address the same way with the blood cleansing kinds of herbs and liver supporting kinds of herbs.
And then if it's mange or something, she's just gonna have to kill those bugs. She, you know, she's gonna have to do something pharmaceutical to get rid of that, because there's nothing herbal that will resolve that at that level.
The things the herbs I really like to use for skin, I like burdock a lot for skin issues.
And again, it's not because it's helping the skin, but it's because it's helping the liver and the kidneys. And so it has an effect on reducing histamine levels and whatever other toxins that the liver is getting rid of. The skin is sort of a the skin can be an eliminative organ. And so, when the liver gets overwhelmed and the kidneys get overwhelmed and everybody's overwhelmed and they start trying to export garbage out through the skin, Right. And the and the skin can really suffer, especially in dogs.
So what I would do first is I would a lot of these dogs have food allergies. You might try, like, a lamb and rice diet instead of the corn and beef. Dogs are often often allergic to corn or beef or both.
You might try a different diet. Some dogs, if you put them on a raw food diet, they'll clear up spontaneously.
Wow.
You know, and it's just that they're they're just not they just cannot handle eating, the junk that is in dog food. And so if you put them on a good quality raw food diet, some of those dogs will just get better.
But certainly herbally things you could do would be burdock would be great. Yellow dock is another really good one.
And so milk thistle and Oregon grape to support that liver things like that.
But yes, those and I would get it you need to do a skin scraping or a skin biopsy or something and see what the heck it is you're dealing with. That's another people mistake people make is, you know, they they they want to know what herbs to use, but they don't know what the diagnosis is. You know?
Something Mhmm.
Something that something doctors and veterinarians are really great at is diagnosing. You know? Mhmm.
So my my my philosophy is let them diagnose you and then run, you know?
Sometimes.
But, because some of the treatments are are not great, but some of them are. So, I say certainly take advantage of your physicians and your veterinarians for diagnosing what's going on because sometimes they're really great at that.
And they've got all the cool toys and technologies to figure out what the heck's going on. But in a case like that, I'd absolutely be doing a skin scraping or a skin biopsy and and see what the heck's going on. You know?
Yeah. It's hard to know what to do unless you know what's going on.
Hard to hit the target if you're putting your arrows the wrong direction.
I had the same situation with me personally, you know, to physician and do some simple tests. And then I was able to go, oh, yes. For sure. This is the thing, and I'm going to take these.
And then now I know what it is. I can treat myself verbally, you know, because I know I can with this situation. If it was something else that was more serious and you couldn't, I would not use the herbs. I would use something else.
So yes. Yeah. Let's see what's going on.
Rob, hip dysplasia care maintenance, for large breed dogs such as German Shepherds. What can she what can he give her, when she has sore joint days?
Yeah.
Arthritis and joint pain are great things to treat with herbs.
And I don't know that the herbs the herbs I use on dogs are the same herbs I use on people for that.
Again, burdock is great, just for cleansing and supporting the liver and the kidney so they can get rid of some of the solutes that tend to increase joint inflammation.
But again, the usual suspects, the turmeric and frankincense together are fantastic for dogs with arthritis.
Frankincense is boswellia.
Tumeric and boswellia, yucca is good, devil's claw is good, white willow is good, white willow is just aspirin.
Although it's better than aspirin, it's more effective in my opinion than aspirin.
And, something else that's kind of cool about white willow is it actually has to be converted into the medicinal form by the bacteria in your gut. You know? So it's a it's a complicated thing, but your body knows what to do with it. You know?
Anyway but, yeah, all those all the usual suspects for anti inflammatory, but I don't have any you know, in my practice, which is a pretty, you know, pretty regular sized small animal practice, I I bet I don't have ten dogs on pharmaceuticals for for arthritis. You know? I mean, they're all they're all on herbs. So, and I just use the, for the most part, I there's a silver lining. It's got a formula. It's just called joint support. It's just a you know, it's just all those guys I just mentioned.
And, it works great. It works great on those dogs. And when they get really, really bad and they're really crippled up, then, you know, some of those dogs, I'll start using a little bit of pharmaceuticals or or something else. You know?
But, boy, for nine out of ten of those arthritic dogs, the herbs are just great. And and, you know, their owners their owners are doing it too, you know. So I had a I had a guy in here not too long ago that, I play music in a little local group here, and and, he's a a guitar player, and he came over and was picking, and he's he's an older guy, and his joints are just really sore. And he's and, you know, he can't play like he used to play.
And I says, he says, you got anything that can help me out with that? And I said, yeah. Come on over to clinic and we'll find you some herbs. And and, I talked to him about two weeks after, and he just was real huggy and happy about what we've done.
And he says, I I can sleep any way I want now. I couldn't sleep. You There's all kinds of positions I couldn't sleep in. I don't remember last time I had a decent night's sleep, and I'm just doing great.
So Wow. You get our all over. Herbs are great for arthritis. I I really think herbs are fantastic for arthritis.
Nice. Great. Well and, he also has six cats. Y'all have some serious cats out there.
Boy, that's five cats. I see. Rupp has six cats. Any oh, he wants to curious about cat.
Basically, he comes to distill his question looking for cat nervines to help calm his cats and herbs.
Yeah. And and they they are very effective in cats. Catnip, probably isn't the best one for a cat, unless you want a silly cat. You know? But, they are calming, but they're but they're, anyway.
Yeah, Valerian, chamomile, passion flower, skullcap, all the usual suspects, hops, you got to be a little careful with hops and dogs. They can be toxic dogs in high levels.
But you know, I use them on dogs all the time. I use hops on dogs all the time, but I but not very much. You know? Skullcap's good.
But, yeah, those just the ones you'd usually think of for people are also very effective for dogs and know, the dogs don't seem to mind the valerian as much as some of the people do.
And and and, of course, if it killed a cat, you might be looking for a glyceride formula for that maybe?
I do a glyceride. Yeah. You bet.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's not easy to I've had a lot of dogs, but that's another one of the formulas that I sell a lot of, and and I'm I'm very confident and successful with besides that arthritis stuff is the calming formulas because we get a lot of very anxious dogs. We get dogs that you know, mommy goes to work and she comes home and the dog ate the sofa because he was freaked out that she left, you know, or, you know, separation anxiety or thunderstorm anxiety. They come in, you know, July first. They're in here and lined up for that stuff, you know, because of the fireworks.
Yeah. So it they're very effective. Those all those nervines are very effective in in dogs.
Now someone, in it was wanted to make an effective glyceride.
Like, me personally, I've always kinda shied away because I didn't I don't know. I don't know personally have any issues with alcohol and tinctures. So and I'm just using one with my family. So I I never really experimented much with glycerides. So, do you ever make any of your own?
You know, and I'm I'm the same way you are. I I just haven't had much occasion to to work with this. Right? I I'm just now starting to think, I need to do that. And I got some glycerin here just lately from a guy.
But, the glycerides for cats really would be ideal.
You know, I I, you know, they taste good. They're they're they're soothing and nice for the tissues. I they just would be great for cats. I just haven't gotten around to doing it.
I usually you know, most most of the the cats that we're dealing with, we're either capsuling them or we're mixing it with enough canned food that they'll choke it down. You know? Mhmm. Mhmm.
I think I think glycerides are a huge a huge, huge opportunity for cats, and I think I'm really done that I haven't been doing it. So Business idea out there.
Line of cat tinctures, glycerides.
Yeah. Somebody out there.
I'm always giving people business ideas on this show.
Thanks. Thanks. No.
That's now the only disadvantage of glycerides is the shelf life.
That's true.
And so and and the potential for contamination. You know?
Yeah. Yeah. That's true.
But now I think glycerides have a real place for, you know, for veterinary for cats. Anyway, the dogs, I don't mind squirting tinctures in dogs, and they give you a dirty look, and that's okay. You know? But and I use a lot of tinctures as an emergency basis, you know, for dogs. I use tinctures.
I use a lot of, one of one of the most the two probably the two most important tinctures I have. And if I were gonna have an an herbal first aid kit for my dog or for people either for that matter, the two tinctures I would want in there for dogs would be cayenne and yarrow, because I use really a lot of those in my practice. The yarrow, is a fantastic anti hemorrhagic. I get dogs in here that have been hit by cars and they're just bleeding like crazy from the mouth or from the nose and I'll squirt some yarrow and or shepherd's purse tincture into them, and it just shuts them off like a like somebody turned the hose off. You know?
Oh, wow.
It's just amazing. It's amazing. And, you see, I get to do stuff like that. I'm in sort of a unique position as a as a veterinarian because I can treat cases that that most herbalists wouldn't dare to treat, you know Mhmm. Because they're not allowed to, I mean, ethically, you know.
So I get these I get these, you know, hit by car dogs or these horrific wounds or these, you know, septic infections, and I can I can do herb stuff with them that that, you know, that a lot of guys don't have the opportunity to do, and it's really kinda cool?
Well, when are you gonna write your book?
Well, I I get asked that a lot. I I I I fiddle with my book occasionally.
But yes, I need to do that I guess. But anyway, yes, so the Yarrow tincture is great for the or Shepherd's first. And I usually use both, but, for hemorrhage, internal bleeding.
And then cayenne is my favorite. If I could only have one herb in my veterinary practice, it would be cayenne because I use that for I have saved more lives more dramatically with cayenne than I have with any other herb.
I get dog With what? What what do they have where cayenne is gonna They're gonna die.
They're gonna die, John. And so when I get a dog that's had, like, been hit by a car and he's, you know, his gums are as white as a sheet and he's, you know, his eyes are starting to roll back in the back of his head, and he's and he's saying to me, okay. I'm going to die now. I squirt tie cayenne tincture in his mouth, and and he jumps up and his gums turn pink, and he says, oh, crap. I can't die right now. I have to deal with this cyan in my mouth.
I mean, it is miraculous.
And I've had I've had cases, animals that were shocking, animals that were having anesthesia reactions and really much too depressed, newborn puppies that are born and aren't breathing and aren't waking up.
It's just great stuff.
You squirt it in there and man, that is like a whole different world.
So I know it's really great. It's really great for those really critical, critical cases that are right on the edge. They're talking to the big white dog at the end of the tunnel and we yank them back with that cayenne tincture. So it's really handy. I wouldn't be without it.
Wow. Thanks for that one. That's a great tip.
Do you do you recommend Carla wanted to know. I guess this is a good good last question. Oh, there are so many great questions. I was like, boy oh, boy.
But, what I mentioned, like, you writing a book before, but what is your favorite book for herbal medicine for pets?
There's a real I haven't read a lot of the lay books that have been written.
The best book in my opinion is a book by a gal named Susan Wynne. It's called Veterinary Herbal Medicine.
Mhmm.
And she's a veterinarian, and she wrote it with another lady whose name I can't remember. But if you if you just, you know, if you got on Amazon and found Susan Winn, w y n n, veterinary herbal medicine, that is a fantastic book.
It's, you know, it's written for veterinarians, but it's I think it would be accessible enough that anybody could read it. You know? And it's just really solid. It's got a great Materia Medicaid in it. It's got dosing things and and Barbara Barbara Fugere is the other offer offer. F o u g e r e. But, yeah, just Susan Winn, veterinary herbal medicine.
That's a fantastic I I saw one, on an herb shop I was at today in Seattle by, Gregory Tilford.
I don't know if you've seen that one.
I'm not familiar with that one.
Yeah. Yeah. It's another, another one. It's Herbus. He's written a lot of books. I don't know. I haven't experienced, but it's one you could look up.
Mostly, I use I mean, for my formative learning about herb years, I think Susan Lynn was terrifically informative for me. But everything else I got from guys like Michael Chira and John Christopher and all the regular guys, you know, Jim James Green, you know, and his great Herbal Medicine Maker's Handbook is a fantastic book.
But there's and like I say, most of the things with a very few exceptions, most herbs that can be used in humans are safe to use in dogs and cats.
And the glaringly worrisome ones we've talked about today, like the petri oil and some of those, but most of them are just really pretty safe.
And I just don't worry very much. And and most of veterinary herbalism is extrapolated from human herbalism. So it's, you know, it's it's not as different as as you might think.
Oh, yeah. Here is Herbs for Pets is the name of Tilford's book. He's a great herbalist, and it's got lots of five star reviews. So maybe it's a good one to look into.
Maybe I'll look at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Let's see. So, Patrick, let's see. You have a website, that I told people about a little earlier, homegrown herbalist dot net. What what's up with your site there? Is it a place people can go?
And, Yeah.
There's, it's it's it's kind of a rinky dink little site. It's not cool like herbmentor dot com.
Well, you know.
It's got I do have started doing some videos, kind of YouTube video kind of stuff and we'll be doing more of that as time permits and weather permits.
But there's the videos are up there on homegrownerboast dot net. And then there's a forum which is just forum. Homegrownerboast dot net. And we do have several sections there stuff. It's not all veterinary stuff.
I have a human practice too. I do consulting with people, but there's a lot of obviously, my emphasis and interest is in that area too in the veterinary area too. So yes, that forum. Homegrownherbalist dot net is also a good resource if people have veterinary questions and that sort of thing. So and we're always delighted to have people come ask questions or give answers.
And so we're gonna have to figure something out on with all these questions on HerbMentor. I don't know. Maybe a column or maybe a forum section. See what you have time for. You're a busy guy with with that many kids in a practice.
You you have your hands full. So we'll we'll figure we'll figure something out.
Because it'd be fun to have you.
I'd be delighted to to help out with those sorts of things.
That'd be great. Oh, it would be so awesome.
Let's see. And, silver lining herbs dot com, and that's a place where people can get some of the formulas you've been talking about. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. Silver Linings is a great company. They're they're just the best people in the world, those guys. And, the products are are very effective.
And they've got a horse line and they've got a dog line and there's resources there too that if your dog or horse is doing this weird thing, you can kind of go through the little flowchart and have some recommendations. And my phone number is on there and anybody that ever wants to call and has a question can certainly call and I do those kinds of customer support things for them.
So Oh, wow.
What do do you sleep?
I really don't sleep very well. No.
I I also, sell Irish flutes on the side, so we have a lot of things we do.
That's right. I noticed that in your website, in your web address. Yeah.
We can we can help you with your sick dog or your Irish flu questions.
So anyway And if you ask nicely, he'll play you a song.
That's right.
That's great. Well, this has been so much fun. Isn't the time go fast when we're doing when we're do these shows? It's a it's I don't know. It seems like I start talking and then two seconds later, they're over.
But it's been quite an honor. It's it's it's taken us a little while to get on the horn here, timing wise, but we finally did it. I'm proud of us. And, and it's been so great. I really appreciate you taking your time and answering all these questions, and and it's been quite enlightening. Thank you so much.
Well, I'm I'm delighted anytime, and and, you know, we we'll figure some way out to get those questions answered for those folks.
So Yes.
We'll get there. So, again, folks, doctor Patrick Jones, HomeGrownHerbalist.net. Thanks a lot, and have a great night, Patrick.
You too. Thanks, John.
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