From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.
Hello, everyone out there. I'm John Gallagher from LearningHerbs.com, and welcome to our herbal teleconference series.
This week we are with herbalist Betzy Bancroft from United Plant Savers. And we have a great call tonight, just like last week. Hold on, hang on to the end of the call, because we have another really cool herbal learning gift to raffle off. And, also, if any of you get kicked off accidentally, just call back.
And so you know, you're all muted out. So if you have kids screaming in the background or whatever, no worries. We can't hear it. So scream away.
And, but first before we got started here, I just wanted to let you know that, when when I first started learning about plants, it was a wilderness awareness school where I've been working for about sixteen years. And, so I've I naturally had an ethic towards treating plants wildlife with respect for my work there. And, I met a professional wildcatcher named Michael Polarski out here in in the northwest and where I live. And, early on in my training and, what he was telling me made sense, that when we're gathering, that we have to have really respect for the plants and the and the environment in mind. And, he told me about a group called United Plant Savers, and he sold me a book by Gregory Tilford called From Earth to Herbalist. And I know many of you on this call actually had it because I require it for the roots and branches course that comes with the herbal medicine making kit.
So tonight, we're going to get a deeper look into what drives us here at learningherbs dot com and what our motivation and passion is behind this business.
And you'll also see why we created WildCraft, our new board game, because a portion of the proceeds of our game will be donated to United Plant Saveras on an ongoing basis to give back to what, the incredible work that they're doing.
So, I'd like to introduce you to an amazing herbalist, and, and, I knew her remotely from a a mutual friend of ours. Right? Mark Tolleson. Yeah.
Is the director of the Wilderness Youth Project and just found out that his wife's gonna have a baby in March. Yeah.
And they taught at the tracker school, Tom Brown's tracker school, together. Right?
I mean, you were Oh, Mark and I did teach the plants together and, the, wild edible section of the standard class.
Well, he he sent me a big bag of organic astragalus root once and said it came he got it from you.
And and and that's why and then now and then I found out, you know, you're working at United Plant Savers. And, so you worked at, with Herbals and Alchemists for fifteen years. You've taught in classes in field botany, conservation minded collection, and introductory herbal studies at arboretums and herbal conferences and all kinds of stuff, and, a professional member of the American Herbalist Guild. That's a lot. So so I'm pleased to welcome Betsy Bancroft. Hi, Betsy.
Hi. Thank you so much. I'm I'm honored to be here. I really am.
Oh, cool. That's good.
Okay. Sure. Good.
So, I'm sure the conversation's gonna wind all over the place. But, I guess a good place to start is, like, you know, what's your story? How did you get started in all this?
Well, I do. I have a little story about that.
I love stories. And, when I was a little kid, my dad told me a story from when he was a little kid.
And, his his parents learned about jewelweed from a farmer and always, you know, took care of my dad and my uncle with, we grew up in New Jersey, so there was was plenty of poison ivy there.
And this friend of my dad's, got a really wicked case of poison ivy, and nothing could cure it. I mean, they were bathing him in calamine lotion, and, nothing would touch it. So my grandmother went out and got what what they called water weed, which is jewel weed in patients, and, doctored this this boy and, cleared it right up. And his father worked in a lab somewhere and, you know, immediately thought, oh, I'm gonna bottle this and get rich.
And so he did. He well, he tried. He took, you know, a bunch of the herb into his lab and and, you know, tried to extract it or whatever he did. And, he couldn't he couldn't make anything useful out of it. So I learned from that story that herbs are magic, and you can't necessarily put that magic in a bottle.
And, you know, so I started using that plant when I was a kid and then eating, a lot of wild fruits, cherries and raspberries and grapes where I grew up. And then I found a mint patch and started making tea and just, really always was a a nature child. You know? I hung out with the plants a lot, and then I I met my teacher David Winston and started studying formally about twenty years ago.
Mhmm. So when you're, come working with herbs and and helping people with things, I mean, when you're learning about you come from a place first of, and I asked a guest last week of a place where you're coming from learning about the plants and then seeing what the plants have to offer or a place of, like, what's your ailment and trying to figure out a way to cure the ailment?
Well, it depends on the situation. I I try to get to know the plants in my neighborhood.
I look at plants like like friends of mine, you know, my my friends and neighbors or the the green people who live around me. So I try to get to know the plants close to me. Like, lately, I've been studying Canada Mayflower and, because it's abundant in the forest here, and it's a new plant for me. I didn't see it where I used to live.
And, so I take it from that perspective, but then I also, you you know, people ask me, well, what do I do for this? Or if if I have a, an ailment or something, I I always treat myself with herbs. And so then I come from the other perspective of, okay. Well, what so what might be useful for this person in this condition?
And I and I always say, what's useful for this person? Because I'm always treating the person. I'm not, you know, what's good for acne? You know, it could be a whole bunch of different herbs are good for acne, but what's good for this person in this situation right now today?
And, and then I I look in the books, you know, I might taste some plants, but, I might I might know something off the top of my head. But, so it's some of each, really.
That's often the overwhelming thing when people wanna approach learning about herbs is it just seems so huge.
There's so many ailments, Things that can happen to us. There's so many plants out there.
You look in books and you look in a lot of herbals and there's a list of ten herbs that you can possibly use and how much Right.
You want. And and so, yeah.
Trow that down.
Yes. Exactly.
So what would you recommend to someone who Oh, yeah.
This is a wonderful question.
And I've taught a lot of introductory classes. And and what I say is, you know, start with something that you already like, like some herb that you like to cook with. Like, maybe you like to cook with rosemary or maybe you really like ginger or maybe your whole lawn is plantain.
You know what I mean?
Pick just one plant at a time and get to know it really well in in terms of its flavor. So make make a cup of tea with just that one herb and get to know its flavor, you know, chew on it as long as it's an edible plant.
Chew on it, really get a sense of its flavor, its its character.
For example, when you chew on a leaf, you can tell if it's astringent. Astringents are are drying. They they tighten up tissue, kinda makes you pucker. Mhmm. Or or demulcent, which is like if you if you chewed on a piece of marshmallow root, it would get really slimy, or if you made some Linden flower tea or something, you feel that that mucilaginousness and those two are are really important medicinal qualities to understand.
And, so you when you when you really check out one plant and really get to know it, maybe look it up in a couple books, you know, see what other people say about it, but but really trust your own experience of that plant, and just build on that from there, you know, if it's one plant a week, it's one plan a month, or what whatever your time frame is, it doesn't matter one bit. Just, you know, just like you you get to know a couple of friends really, really well, and you can rely on them in a lot of situations where if you had, you know, a hundred acquaintances, it wouldn't be as useful to you as five really good friends.
Exactly.
Exactly. You know, it's funny you say that because, I worked eleven years as director of the Kumana Natural Training Program at Wilderness Awareness School, and I talk people on the phone every week about this. And I guess exactly the point I would always make is that, you know, when people are inspired to learn about something and something that seems really huge, it seems really huge, but you know what? If you look around, there's a lot of people too, and you don't know all of them and you don't feel like you need to know all of them. But you know what? You really do feel like you have to have some a few close friends or family members that you get to know well, and it's no different at all with herbs, is it?
No. No. It's the same thing. And then you even I mean, you can take that further and say, well, you know, in the woods, I'm likely to find this person. You know?
But, yeah, it's a it's a useful analogy.
Exactly. Yeah. So, you're there working now with United Plant Savers and you and you moved to Vermont.
And, tell tell tell me tell me about more about the organization because, you know, I I know a bit about it and, just from in the paper, I'd like to hear Oh, sure.
Who works there.
Sure.
United Plant Savers was founded by a group of herbalists about twelve years ago.
Rosemary Gladstar, who many people have heard of or have, taken classes with, is really quite the visionary.
She starts things, herbal things.
She does.
And fortunately, a lot of great people have perpetuated the things that she started, like the California School of Verbal Studies.
And so, things were really heating up at that point. You know, the the dietary supplement health and education act was passed in the late, in the nineties, and the herb industry started to really perk up. And she was teaching, and a lot of other people had started teaching, and they they looked around and said, hey. You know what?
If this keeps building, the plants are gonna be at risk. And, you know, the plants ginseng was already, an endangered species because it's been exported for three hundred years And, cultivation has has, there's a lot of people cultivating ginseng, but but the pressure on the wild stands is still immense, and, golden seal is catching up as far as its its endangeredness and lady slipper and so forth. So this this group of herbalists, decided to be proactive and do something about that. So they founded this little organization called United Plant Savers.
And what we do, let's see. I can read you our official mission, which is to preserve, conserve, and restore native medicinal plants and their habitats in the US and Canada while ensuring their abundant renewable supply for future generations.
So they wanted to make sure that our plants would be here and not only just for human use, but especially rosemary recognizes very strongly that the plants need the plants too.
You know, these healing herbs are are also medicine for the the other beings in the forest and the healthy stuff going on.
This is just people, sometimes I don't know. It's it's a service. Sometimes people are dropping or coming on. It didn't happen last week, but apparently, it's a little bit of a technical glitch we're having. So if you can just ignore those things and just listen to us talk, then that's the best we can do. Apologize. Sorry, Betsy.
That's alright. So, so what we do is we have a number of different programs all geared toward, raising consciousness about conservation of medicinal plants and especially sustainable use, like, read the label, you know, make sure it's organic goldenseal instead of, wild crafted, etcetera.
We offer a lot of resources for people who wanna teach about native medicinal plant conservation and and also who wanna grow medicinal plants from, just replenishing their own land or growing their own for their own use or going into it as a as a livelihood.
Like, like saying so so someone who, like, really wanted to use Goldenseal could choose to actually grow Goldenseal.
Sure. If they had the right habitat for it.
Find out how. Right. Or ginseng or or Right. Well, echinacea. What about echinacea? Tell tell I bet you have something to say about that.
Oh, sure. Well, echinaceus I mean, there's a number of different species. Echinacea purpurea is ridiculously easy to grow and just a gorgeous plant. Mhmm. The one that's specifically, at risk is the prairie coneflowers, like the echinacea angustifolia.
Because what happened was when the echinacea boom happened, you know, and and it became a very, very popular item in healthy food stores and so forth, the bigger companies were hiring people to just go out and dig it up. And acres and acres of prairie, acres and acres of prairie areas of echinacea really got decimated.
And, you know, perennial plants when when it's the root that's the part used and, a lot of the perennials are slow growing plants, you know, it takes a long time for them to to be reproductively fertile and so forth.
They can't take that kind of harvesting pressure. You know, John comes along and digs a few roots here and there, it's not a big deal. But when you have, harvesting on that kind of commercial scale, it's a different story.
So what would be some herbs that people really should look out for and and and not pick that, that they, you know, might be more at risk? Like common ones?
Well, like things like lady slippers, you know, especially plants like that have very specific needs in terms of where they'll grow and who they grow with and so forth. So the more, shall we say choosy or the more factors a plant has for, you know, limited habitat or limited reproductive capability, those plants are the ones we should be especially careful of. And then, you know, plants like dandelion that we seed freely everywhere, you know, use no chance of overharvesting dandelions.
Mhmm. And then there's also ways around it. For example, you know, you could just take part of a root.
You can do this with ginseng even. You know, it they've got if you've ever seen a ginseng root, they have little branches. That's what they call it the man root. You know? Ah.
And you can actually dig up a ginseng plant and cut part of the root off.
Like, this is what I would do if I really, really needed some wild ginseng. You know? It's not a plant I would harvest just to have some on hand. Mhmm.
But if I really needed it or for someone especially, I get some and I would take part of the root. But if you replant the the rhizome with the what looks like the little neck where all the scars were Mhmm. And make sure that the, the bud is is there. You replant that, the plant goes back.
You get what you need and the plant plant continues. It's all good.
So can you speak then to and, as far as, like, something that I I tell people is, you know, one is because because it's like, well, if there's a certain plan, what part do I pick or or how would I know this and all? I often say that, well, it's really good to get to know the plan first and get to know its life cycle and how it reproduces before.
Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, it's it is important, you know, going back to what we were saying about really getting to know the plant, knowing its life cycle. I mean, plants perennial, annual and biennial have basic life cycles, but knowing which of those a plant is, knowing what its traditional use is in terms of what part of the plant and and how either indigenous people or our grandparents used it.
A lot of plants, even though the root was the part traditionally used, the leaves are also active, you know. So if you wanna get to know a plant that maybe you don't have any information on, check out the leaves first, You know, that's gonna be the most sustainable too.
Mhmm.
Yeah. But there's a lot to know. Even one plant, there's a lot to know.
But Yeah. I mean, you can literally spend a lifetime studying one plant.
I know that and also, you know, it depends on ecosystems. Let's say, Saint John's wort, for example, grows on both sides of the mountains here in in the northwest and one's really wet side, which is where I live in the west of the Cascade Mountains. And then there's the east side of the Cascade. And you go to the east side of the Cascade Mountains and it's considered like a noxious weed and it's everywhere and people are, you know, you can go and harvest tons and tons and tons and bring it home and strip it down and whatever.
But on this side of the mountains, it's a, or on that, it's a, it grows, well, pretty much in those dry rocky areas which will where be is the is the highway medium, you know. And so you gotta really search hard to find an off the road, off the trail beaten path place where there's a nice patch of St. John's wort growing. So harvesting it, it's kind of a you want to maintain a patch in that situation versus, versus like just not thinking about all you're taking.
When you're in a huge field and you take a big bundle and you can still see a huge field, you know you're not making a big difference.
But if you go in an area that does the how big the population is has a has a whole lot to do with how much the plants can handle you harvesting.
How about Also think about, you know, I come by today and take a little bit, and you come by tomorrow and take a little bit, and our other student comes over the next day and takes a little bit. You know what I mean? How many people are are harvesting from that patch too?
So usually, you want you do wanna think about, how much the plants can sustain you taking. It's it's not so much about how much you need, but about how much the plants can handle.
That's an important perspective.
I never got that perspective until I was reading. I never thought of that little bit that you just said until I was reading through the first part of From Earth to Herbalist by Gregory Tolford.
Uh-huh.
Because he talks about that, and I was just like, oh, yeah. You you don't think anyone else is out there picking stuff, and then you until you realize, oh, because there are other people out there picking stuff.
Especially if it's a choice plant and a choice spot.
Yeah. And the right time of year and, you know, there's certain things certain patches of things I tell people about. Certain patches, I never tell anybody about.
Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's like that.
Especially when you're teaching a class. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be careful not to bring your classes back.
Yeah. Oh, so what are some good wild crafting roots of some and also, why don't you define wild crafting for us? Because we got this chain coming out, and I get these emails sometimes. What's wild crafting?
What is wildcrafting? I I get those emails too.
My my definition of wildcrafting is is harvesting something that's wild, you know, something that is in nature's garden and and not in a human's garden.
Right.
And, yeah, there's some great rules of thumb. Going back to what part of the plant, you wanna think about harvesting the plant, the part of the plant where the energy is the highest.
So you Oh, yes.
Please talk about this because I I feel stupid that when I was starting out that I didn't get this.
Oh, this is important. Yes.
You know, and so now I go, duh. But in the beginning, I was like, so please talk about this because I know a lot of people listening are going, like, what? What are they talking about?
Sure. Sure. Well, you know, everything's based on energy. And it takes plant energy energy in the food chain comes from the sun.
All the energy on the earth comes from the sun through the photosynthesis in the leaves. So when plants are real leafy and they're making leaves and they're doing their photosynthesis thing, that's where the energy is, is in the leaves. And then what the plant does is it stores that energy in its root, and then it brings that energy back out to flower. Or maybe it if it's an annual plant, it just stores up a lot of energy in the leaves and and then flowers and and goes to seed.
So, when the leaves are fresh and new and and, you know, real vital, that's when you wanna harvest the leaves because that's when the energy is highest in that part. When the plant is blooming, when it's just going into bloom and it's just primo, that's when you want to harvest the flowers because that's when the energy is highest in the flowers.
And then if the plant if you want the seeds, you go for when the seeds are ripe, you know, when they're dry, maybe not completely dry. Again, you gotta know the plants a little bit.
Mhmm. But the energy that plants, especially annual plants, put a lot of energy in the seed because that's their their next generation. They're depending on those seeds entirely for their next generation.
And then with a a biennial or a perennial plant, the plant then, the energy descends into the root and is stored in the root for the for growing the next season. So, springtime is the best time to gather bark when the sap starts to run and the vitality of the plant is is coming the shrub or the tree. Oh, okay. The barks in the spring, and then, leaves and flowers in the summer.
And of course, that can be anywhere from spring until, later in the summer depending on the bloom time of the plant.
Oh, sure.
Because if I'm out for wild edibles in the springtime, that's when they're most tender. If I'm gonna make a salad with my daily edibles, I wanna go spring when they're green. Yeah.
Yep. And then fall, like, now is the best time to gather roots because that's when the the vitality is highest in the root. And if you had a biennial plant or a plant with a two year life cycle, you would harvest the root the autumn of the first year because if you waited till the autumn of the second year after it's gone to seed, you'll have a slimy stringy mess when you dig up that root. There's nothing left because it spent all its energy to reproduce.
Oh. So that's a a good rule of thumb you can kinda keep in mind. And then fruits, obviously, when they're when they're ripe. A lot of fruits are nicer actually after a frost like, rose hips.
Rose hips. Peter.
Now I gotta ask you since you just said rose hips, and and and this is something that goes through my mind when I'm okay. Here's the thing. Say we're we go out as a family and we love to gather rose petals in June. And when the when the when they're all, you know, when they're all happening at the park, the wild roses, we love to fill the jar, and we love to fill it with honey, you know, and make rose honey. And and, and but as I'm picking, of course, you know, there's no way on these wild ropus that our family could possibly make a dent. But what I wonder is that when I'm picking the rose petals on the rose plant, like, no matter what, will that still turn into a hip?
Depends on if it's been pollinated yet or not.
Okay.
If you if you pick those petals before the, the pistols are ripe, that's being the female part, and the plant doesn't get and the that flower doesn't get pollinated, then, no, it won't make a hit.
Oh, okay.
Needs pollination to happen. And the petals of a flower are like, here you go, pollinator.
Here it is. You know? They're a little beacon for pollinators.
So, yeah. And that you know, the other thing about how much you take, leave enough for the pollinators and the animals and the birds and everybody too.
Sure. I always figured that there's a huge hedge rose, and there's no way I could reach the whole top area.
Oh, sure.
So I figured that. Yeah. So we're going through. But I'm but I'm keeping that in mind when I'm picking.
That's the point. Right? That I'm keeping that ethical sustainable mind every time. I know I don't know if you've heard of this.
You probably have. But, what about this have you heard of this twenty twenty, like, this this rule of twenty? Have you heard of this?
I have.
I've heard a number of different, percentages and, you know, rules come for a month.
That?
I mean, it's useful. I mean, a lot of people like numbers.
Right.
Right. But I think just, you know, being sensitive to the neighborhood where you're picking, and, like I said, the needs not only of the plants, the plants reproductive needs, and and the plants well-being needs, but also, you know, the the needs of the rest of the ecosystem.
That's that's all important to keep in mind. I don't I'm I'm not much of a numbers person.
Right. Right. I think it's, you know, I found that very useful when I was starting out just to just to keep in mind. But, yes, eventually, you because what if, like you said, if I come and pick twenty and the next person picks twenty. And what that is, by the way, everybody, that is, you know, one in every twenty leaves, one in every twenty flowers, one in every twenty, you know, fruits or whatever, you know. That was, just to keep in mind.
Yeah.
And so you're you're just talking about seasonal things, times a year. Now someone emailed into me last week and couldn't couldn't quite fit in with the conversation, but they asked what what are you in the wintertime, you know, that we're getting in now, what are some what are a couple of things that a person can can harvest, like, where you are anyway?
Where I live, I harvest, things like pine needles and spruce needles.
What do you do?
Basically, evergreen parts for, teas in the wintertime.
They're great expectorants. Pine and spruce and so forth are are wonderful expectorants for for colts.
And that's most of the gathering I do in the winter.
I like to curl up by the wood stove and knit in the winter.
Y'all have, cottonwood trees?
We have a little bit of cottonwood up here, but not a whole lot.
No. We have massive amounts here.
So making Baum and Gilead is is Oh, sure.
Sure. That's a great thing to do. Here.
But, yeah. I I, my harvesting I do myself is is salvage harvesting. Mhmm. You know, if somebody's gonna come along and mow, including me, I I admit I I don't mow very often. But when I do, I pick the plantain leaves out of the lawn before I mow it. It makes sense.
I mow around the plantain leaves. Well, I My neighbor commented on this. What about that spot?
Yeah. I'm out around the Saint John's Wort this year.
But, you know, I just I tend to go for the the really common stuff where if somebody's, you know my friends were were digging a trench and there was a barberry in the way, so I took the roots. You know?
Exactly.
And, But but different places, you're gonna have I mean, we're talking to people all over the country, and and everybody's got a different winter situation.
So, you know, someone in Florida is gonna have a completely different I mean, they're gonna be able to harvest all year round. Other people in like in California are mostly gonna be harvesting, I I would suspect, in the the moist seasons of the year.
Right. But with your seasons and what's growing.
Yes. What's going in and what the botanical neighborhood is doing at at at your time of the year.
Take your time and and get to learn things. And in time, you'll look around and the whole neighborhood and the whole forest will be we we Wilderness Awareness School, we call this we call it the wall of green. Yep. And and, sometimes, you know, I remember a time looking out into, and I can go to, you know, I can go to different parts that, the country or places that I'm not familiar with a lot of the trees and things or plants and and see a wall of green.
And and and and one by one, before you know it, all of those plants that are around you just jump out and you They start to get who they are as individuals.
Sure. Sure. They're definitely individuals. Yeah. You just kinda gotta get close up close and personal with them a little bit and then get to see you know, one of the things also that I I suggest to people is, learn the basic difference, like like, opposite leaves, alternate leaves, basal leaves, whorled leaves, compound leaves, simple leaves, so that so that you can use a field guide at least if the plant's in flower. Just, you know, look something up really simply.
But those few botanical words or terms, are very helpful to know to to be able to start to look at plants, you know, is okay. So being able to tell if it has opposite or alternate leaves, for example, is is really very simple. Sometimes it's not easy to tell if it's a compound or a a simple leaf, but but the, alternate opposite thing is pretty easy to grasp.
And if anyone wants a good resource about learning that, there's a there's a field guide called, Newcomb's wildflower guide to wildflowers, is it?
Yes. Newcomb's wildflower guide. That's a great one.
And it teaches you to look at patterns, and then you and it's amazing. So if you wanna learn, like, how to identify plants, between that book and, Botany in a Day by, Tom Eltell.
That's the one I was gonna suggest. That's another great one for understanding how to look at plants to because, you know, if you if you can get a sense of the family, you learn a whole lot about the plants.
For example, if you know something's in the Malvesia family, which is hollyhocks and marsh mallows and, Uh-huh. Cotton and things like that, there's no toxic plants in that family, and they're pretty much all mucilaginous.
Same with mints too. Right?
Yeah. There's no toxic mints either. So if you can tell that it's a mint, you know that it's okay. You know, at least it it won't harm you if you nibble on it.
And, mustard family too is another one that they're all edible. They're not all that tasty, but all of them are edible. And, and you can find mustards practically anywhere you go.
Oh.
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's that. But but, however, if you know that something looks like it's in the carrot family, what would we have to look out for?
Carrot family, you must be much more careful.
Yeah.
Yeah. Families like the carrot family and the Ranunculaceae, I don't know the the common name for that family, but, those plants have a lot of very, very toxic members, and it's easier to confuse them. So you really if if you know they're in one of those types of families, you wanna be a lot more careful than if it's a a rose or a mint or something like that.
Yep. That's important.
That's very important. So that's where the families can really come in. Just on a side note, Camana Naturalist Training Program, Wilderness Awareness School, really kinda takes you through slowly learning about, you know, how to look at plants. But it's also, of course, it teaches you birds and tracking and, you know, and trees and lots of other stuff too.
But plants are part of it, of course. And, Right. And it does take you through that step by step. But if you just wanna get a couple of books, the couple main books that Kimani uses is the Newcomb's Wildflower Guide and the Botany in a Day.
Mhmm. For sure.
Yeah.
So, when you're out there, say you're out there and you're picking something. Uh-huh. You're out there and you're harvesting something. What's what's going through your mind as you're doing that?
Oh, I'm I'm thinking about kind of the same similar mindset as when I'm gardening.
Mhmm. You know? I'm I'm thinking about, okay. Well, what what would make this this patch of plants better?
Or what what do these plants need? Are they are they maybe a little thirsty, or do they they need to be thinned out? I do when I harvest, I think a lot about, pruning, you know, or thinning. It's it's kind of a horticultural approach, like I said.
So for example, if I need, some bark from a, a cherry or something like that, I'll I'll look for branches that are crossed or crowded just as I would when I was pruning my apple trees. Mhmm. Or if I'm harvesting nettles, you know, I I cut a little here, I cut a little there. I try to cut them so that the, plant can grow back.
Like like, if you plant if you cut basil in your garden and you you cut it just above where the a leaf axle where, you know, two shoots will come back out on one on either side because the opposite plant. Mhmm. It's easy on the plant if you if you just snip it just above there. So I I think about what the plants need and what would benefit them as well as what's benefiting me and, try to give back in that way.
Mhmm. And also, I'd like to, see what you thought too.
Like, even, like, when I look in in the From Earth to Herbalist book where it's so thorough. He's so thorough in in so much about what, you know, about everything you can think of about going out. But something that that I'm sure you teach and and, that I always tell people is, to always, you know, somehow recognize or give thanks for the plant. Oh, absolutely. And different people have different ways of doing that depending on traditions and religions or spiritual beliefs, but but there's something about energetically. So what do you think about that energetic exchange?
Like I always I always try to have, you know, happy good thoughts, care caring thoughts in my mind.
Absolutely. I think that's really important.
And the plants respond to it. You know? I've I've had some interesting experiences with plants who really didn't feel like being picked, and and so I didn't. You know?
And then and then, the example particularly is I was teaching a class on on, herbs for, herbs for gladness was the name of the class. So I wanted to make some, some rose syrup. And I went over to the garden at Sage, and I picked a couple roses. And they were like, oh, okay.
If you must. And I I knew that that particular shrub of roses had been picked a lot.
And, I went to a couple more and they're like, okay. And then I came over to my yard, and there's a big patch of roses in the front, and they were absolutely delighted to be picked. I mean, they were, pick me. Pick me.
So the the, you know, picking up on the energy of the plant and and also if you can't do that or you don't don't, connect with plants in that way, it's alright. But but you should have a you should try to be sensitive, I think, to where the plants are at and have have a positive, caring, mind when you're when you're gathering for sure because you're you're you're preparing food and medicine, you know, and that's all about healing and well-being and nourishment and health and you want to perpetuate that that energy and put that energy into what you're doing.
And and honestly, when I was started learning things and people would tell me that, I would be like, yeah. Right. Sounded kinda weird. You know?
But, as I was doing it, you know, as I started working with plants more and more and more and more, you could really feel something just like everyone knows out there when you can feel things off of people without any words being exchanged.
Sure.
So you can be next to somebody standing next to them on a bus or standing next to them on the line, and you can you just know what they may be feeling or, you know, and and so that's, that there's not much of a difference, there.
Oh, yeah. No. The the comparing it to humans is is certainly apt, comparison because, I mean, if you if I wanted your help, would I ask you nicely, or would I just grab you and say, come help me? You know what I mean?
When you're asking these plants for their help and and their their nourishment, their their gifts, and and if you ask nicely, it's it's just a good thing all the way around, you know.
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's that's that's important.
I see.
So, let's see here.
Well, you were gonna ask me about processing after I Oh, yeah.
Yeah. What do you have to say about that process?
You're, you know, one thing we discussed earlier that I think is very important and we wanted to talk about is making sure that when we go harvesting I mean, like me doing my little salvage harvest, you know, I I never know what's coming up. But when you purposefully set out with your basket to, to harvest plants, make sure that you have enough time to take care of the plants after you've harvested them, you know, make sure that if you go in for Saint John's Wort flowers in the summer that you have enough olive oil and enough time to put those up. And, because you don't wanna waste their gift.
Right? You know, you don't wanna waste that medicine. And, and I I you know, we all do a number of different things with the plants. We harvest them.
Sometimes they just get dried.
The simplest thing that I do is to lay them in baskets in my herb room Uh-huh.
And let them dry that way. But if it's if you live in a moist environment or if the weather is is damp here, there's a lot of plants, like red clover, rosemary even, that, don't drive very well just by, you know, in in the environment. They they need a little extra, so you could put them in a dehydrator or something.
Have to have where I live. Yeah.
I would imagine so. Yeah. Or you can just finish them off in a dehydrator to make sure that, that they're crispy before you, put them in jars so to make sure that they don't mold on you.
Someday, I will have a solar dryer, but I don't know know how.
But, yeah, make sure that you plan your your medicine making into your your harvesting schedule, into your into your day, you know.
Very important. I mean, I I told Betsy of a time when when I was early on and I was I wanted to make dandelion wine, you know, and I went out and I and I, harvested a big bucket of dandelions and I came home and I left them out and got really busy. You didn't really think the whole process through and, well, they all molded.
Yeah.
And I just felt so bad, and that was a good learning experience.
Yeah.
Sure. Sure. They had plans to go moldy quick. I mean, they'll go they'll go funky on you quick sometimes. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Some of them are It's okay to make mistakes.
You know? I mean, you learn from that. In fact, I I, for the first I got very lucky in my first couple years, a lot of successes, and I started making a lot of mistakes. And I was thinking, hey. What's up? But then I realized, hey. I was making all these mistakes so I could teach other people what not to do.
Yeah. There you go. You learn a lot about what not to do.
Yep. Yep. But, and and, you know, you don't you don't need, really, you don't need a heck of a lot of medicine unless it's a tonic that you take all the time, like hawthorn berries or nettles or, you know, something like that, that's a daily part of your your wellness.
For most things, you know, how a little bit of this and a little bit of that is just fine and and, you know, depending on who who you are and what level you're using herbs, if you're just taking care of your family, you know, think about plants that, kinda cover the home remedy basis. You know, maybe you you wanna have some colds, some things for colds, and maybe some things for urinary infections, or maybe, you know, whatever your family digestive remedies, certainly. You know? But digestive remedies are mostly in the spice cabinet, which are always there. You know.
Yeah. Even cold remedies are often in their refrigerator.
Oh, certainly. I use thyme and sage a lot. You know, people use OSHA and goldenseal for colds and flu.
Have some garlic and thyme and sage, you know?
No. I never I barely, you know, I rarely even use echinacea or anything like that anymore. I I pretty much stick the garlic, ginger, and and, like you said, sage.
Lawn leaves, hyssop. Hyssop is one of my favorites. I I have a nice patch in the garden out front. Hyssop, if you're not familiar with it, is in in the mint family. It's, it's a little sub sub shrub like a lavender, or a sage, and, has similar requirements to sage. And it's it's a beautiful little plant, and and it's a great antiviral and respiratory tonic.
Wow.
Yep. And, or put in pine needles. That's another thing I put in in tea for for colds a lot. So, you know, having a little bit of these home remedy things if if you're just, you know, taking care of yourself and your family is great. And, and if you're if you have a practice and you're caring for other people and you're kind of a community herbalist, then then it's another story to to wanna stock your apothecary, so to speak. But, but for home remedies, you really you don't need a heck of a lot.
And, just to kind of invest we talked about pine needles, mentioned that a couple of times. I just wanna tell everybody a little trick.
The way well, also, what you're getting out of the pine needles is vitamin c, and vitamin c is very volatile. And so what you have to make sure you do is you boil your water first, and when your water's hot already, then put your chopped up vitamin c in it and steep it for twenty minutes. If you boil it with the the needles, then you will very well dissipate the vitamin c.
Yeah. You lose the vitamin c. You'll gain resins though that are more medicinal.
True.
Good point for like a new Yeah.
No. This is a this is a really important thing is is different preparations of different plants give you different medicine.
Good. Yeah.
And with pine needles, like like John's saying, you know, vitamin c is a really great thing when you have a cold. It's a it's a wonderful and important thing. And especially if you're treating children, you're gonna want to make them a really gentle brew that they're gonna be that you're gonna be able to get them to drink.
And, exactly the the, recipe John just gave is wonderful, that if you had an older person with, like, a more stuck congestion and they needed a little stronger remedy, you can actually simmer the pine, for a little while and you get more of the the, the oils and so forth and it makes a stronger expectorant that is also less palatable.
But if you're sick enough, you'll drink it. You know?
But, yeah, those those are important things. Personally, I think it's much more useful therapeutically to take big doses of gentle herbs.
Mhmm.
So, like, we're talking about the culinary herbs and pine and and hyssop and things like that, mint. It's it's, because you can take big doses more often, and I think that's more useful than and certainly safer ecologically and personally than to go to stronger herbs right away.
You know? And, because you can think of those gentle herbs more like food.
Exactly.
Like the nettle that some of you used in the roots and the branch course. And this is some of the stuff exactly what I'm gonna be talking to Susan Weed about in a couple of weeks.
Oh, sure.
Yeah. She's she's the she's the world expert on it.
Yeah. She's also a big fan of getting to know one herb at a time really well and just using what what the herbalists call that, simples.
You know, just a simple herb.
That then that's why I that's the other book I require in the roots and branches, of course, is that. It's because exactly people often say, well, you know, I don't know about this book, and she's very strong in some of her language and beliefs, and I don't feel necessarily comfortable or whatever. And and, you know, I'm sure you've heard that before. Right?
And, and, I look at that book as incredible. Like, you can find another book, healing wise, that covers the very basic, wonderful, weedy species that are out there. Yep. It goes into such depth and and teaching you to do them one at a time.
Yeah. And also the plants to learn first, you know, the gentle ones, the really common ones.
Mhmm. Dandelion, plantain, thickweed.
Burdock, you know, violet leaves.
You know what? I've got another you're gonna like this. We have a a live wild crafting update going on in my house. Now my son is seven and he's, you know, okay.
You know, that's enough said. Right? So earlier I just earlier on on this Sunday, past Sunday, he was on the way home from the ferry dock. Right?
And then he he we ended up in the emergency room. He was on his way back from Lopez Island with my wife and with my my daughter, and he he hurt himself and ended up in the emergency room splitting his head open a little, and it was nothing major. It was okay. It was being turned out okay.
Right? So here we are three days later, and he just got home from, from Wilderness Awareness Youth School where he was getting knife certified today. He goes there once a week and does wilderness stuff. So he's my little seven year old getting knife certified.
Not too many, seven year olds in school. That's not too many of their schooling. Right? Yeah.
So anyway, he managed, of course, to cut himself.
Oh, dear.
I know. It's horrible. I'm laughing, but it's just like one of those, like, oh, no. Not again kinda parent thing. You know? Okay. And then so my wife just runs down and asked me, you know, here here in the call.
And then, we went out in the back. She just ran out in the backyard, and there's a tiny little patch of yarrow growing.
And she went go.
Take some yarrow because on those deep cuts, you can look at a yarrow leaf, and what do you see? Like a serrated blade almost. If you look at the shape of a and they're great for deep cuts. So she just took a that up stairs and chewed it up, and now he's got yarrow on his finger.
Right. Yep. I was just Even he's alive. A while. Yarrow.
I'm not gonna tell my my emergency yarrow picking story.
Oh, no. What do you do? What's your story?
You're not gonna tell me.
I I have used yarrow for bleeding. Definitely. Yep. It's great stuff.
Yeah.
So, anyway, it's a, you know It's a plan I would I would not want to be without yarrow in the yard.
I really wouldn't wanna be without yarrow in the yard. And plantain. Mhmm. Those are two that, you know, I would I'd really I would miss them if I didn't have them.
In fact, I did miss them. I was when I was taking the, awareness class in Florida at the tracker school, they led us through some fire ants, and I didn't have any there was no plantain around. And, I mean, I probably could have found something if I'd wandered around enough, but I was very uncomfortable without plantain. I wish I had a lot to stick all over my feet.
You know?
No.
But yeah. No. Herbs are herbs are great. And and that's one of the things about knowing the simple remedies that are right around your house. So you can just run out and get something when you need it. You know, you don't have to worry about whether you've harvested and dried it and put it up or made medicine out of it. You just run out the door unless, like, my house, there's two feet of snow.
You run out the door and get it when you need it, which, of course, blows our little rule about where's the energy, you know, but plants are really very accommodating. And and if it's there and, you know, it's, in reasonable shape, it's still gonna work, you know.
You know, speak speaking to that, you know, because we're kinda getting near the end here, but I wanted to, speak into that. Like, if you do have something in your backyard, when you're picking things in your backyard, or even just anywhere in your town, some safety things, a couple of things you know so far from the road, that kind of thing.
What what do you tell people?
I tell people, you know, not within seventy five feet or so of a well traveled road. If it's, you know, a logging road or a farm road, that's no big deal. But I stay away from well traveled roads.
I I stay away from, power lines and railroad tracks Mhmm.
Generally because those areas had been sprayed.
Fortunately, they don't so much do that anymore. More. They come in with giant mowers and so forth, but those areas were sprayed formerly and, so I worry about what's still lingering.
You know, I worry about commercial farm fields. I I don't harvest, pesticide and herbicide and so forth using, pesticide and herbicide and so forth using, farms. I did all of my, wild edible gathering and and now, you know, if I was gonna look for a good place to harvest, around the edges of farm fields are are great. Edges in general are very biodiverse places. Mhmm.
But I I stay away from any place people have sprayed stuff, and that might even be a park too, you know, if they're spraying the dandelions or whatever.
Exactly. Gotta be you know, I'm gonna give my big secret here that I tell people in the roots and branches course about what I do because we're talking about here, you know, we pick most of the species that we're picking. A lot of these vary kind of things that grow out in fields and are more considered weeds by everyone else.
Mhmm.
And who are they considered weeds by more than anyone? Well, well, maybe not anyone, but I mean by the a lot of the farmers.
And, we're blessed in our valley with a lot of organic farms. And, they're more than happy. I know them all.
And, and they're more than happy when John comes by to pick their, you know, dandelions or to pick their burdock or to pick their red clover or any anything. I mean, everything that I use, I get abundance for and and and it's welcomed. Then it establishes a relationship with my the farmers in the area. They get to know me and Right.
And just go up and ask them. And they'll be like, yeah. Take my weeds. Yeah.
And then and just go up and ask them. And they'll be like, yeah. Take my weeds.
Yep. Well, that it's true. It's true. Let's I mean, that's kind of the the crux is, you know, you do it in a good way and everybody benefits, not not just you and but the the plants and the ecosystem and everybody benefits when you do it in a in a kind and considerate manner.
Exactly.
So, I, got a email from somebody today, and, you had mentioned briefly earlier just as we're wrapping things up, I just wanna get to at least one question.
And, you mentioned before about gardening is a great way to grow herbs, to keep them near you, especially ones that may not grow, you know, just in the wild around you. Like, there's certain herbs like Elecampane, comfrey, and and yarrow, and there's a lot of bone set, let's see, marshmallow. These are these are herbs that I'm not gonna have grown up, but I got outgrown in the yard because I can go out and I can, you know, make medicine within there. Very easy. I gotta have it so it's easy to grow. If it's not simple, it is if I have to water it, forget it. Like Right.
Oh, there are some wonderful, very accommodating herbs that you can grow.
I always have sage.
Sage is really easy, you know, salvia officinalis.
Mhmm. Calendula. Calendula. Oh, I love Calendula.
It's really easy and just gorgeous. Mhmm. So is Echinacea. Easy, Echinacea purpurea.
Easy, beautiful.
Elle campaign is a great one to have. Elle campaign is a really underrated plant. It's amazing.
And it's beautiful.
And I've got a, herbal branch. You can get the back issue for it, which, folks on the website, which will show you how to make honey with it.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Oh, it's a it's a sunflower.
So it's a tall, leafy sunflower plant. What else is that?
Somebody, asked me about blue cohosh, and, and, they have it planted on the north east side of a building. It gets lots of shade from trees nearby. Yep. And every year, it grows from the root until it gets a foot high, and then nothing else happens. And eventually, it dies down. And it's done this for three years, and she wants to transplant it somewhere else, but doesn't know where the Mhmm. Should be called?
Likes remote forested areas.
It's relatively common in Vermont, but I haven't seen it in a lot of other places.
But it it definitely likes, like, the more off the beaten trail, foresty, wilder foresty areas.
And it should get it should get closer to, two feet tall. It's not a super big plant.
It it should get closer to two feet though, and it it makes these beautiful little berries that look a lot like a blueberry, except that they don't have the little navel the way a blueberry does. Mhmm. But, that's how you know it'll be happy if it if they bloom very, very early, they bloom just as they're emerging from the earth, and then then they make these berries that are are most, obvious later in the season when they we turn this deep deep blue black.
Great. So there's hopefully, that will help you, Rita, who asked that question. Yeah. So, as we wrap up here, I wanna ask you one final question, before we kinda raffle off that cool press.
Tell me how I can join United Plant Savers, and tell me how, you know, how does my donation help?
Oh, great question. Mhmm. Our website is triple w united plant savers dot o r g.
And if you log on to the site, there's lots of info, but there's, like, a list of buttons on the left hand side, and one of them says join us. And you can go in there and print out the form. We're not set up for credit cards because we wanna put all our money is into saving plans.
So, so you'll have to print out the form and send it. Or, conversely, if you not don't have the Internet or you don't feel like printing out a piece of paper, take a piece of of scratch paper. I don't care if there's something on the other side. As Long as I can read it. Put your name, address, and contact info, phone, and or email, and send it with a check for thirty five dollars, which is the annual membership fee to United Plant Savers, PO Box four hundred, East Berry, Vermont o five six four nine.
And currently, what we're working on, we've been doing, substantial renovations to the, facilities at the sanctuary in Ohio so that we can start an internship program back up there. That will be very exciting.
We we we also give out grants.
You have to be a member to get a grant, but, you know, that's not a big deal.
But the grants that we give out are, for projects like community gardens and educational nature trails and, usually educational in nature. We love projects involving kids, and those kind of things. Restoration projects that that involve education, are the kind of things that we fund.
So those are some of where your donations will go.
So everyone, I just wanna tell you that if you're getting wanna get into herbs and working with herbs and nothing, you know, some of you live out in maybe remote areas. You don't have an herbal school or people near you. There's no better way to get involved energetically than get involved with a group like United Plan Savers. You get to network, connect with other people like you are here on Learning Herbs. Like, the more you're connected with people, the more you'll really feel supported in your learning, and then you don't feel so alone when you're out there and you don't have neighbors who are maybe are into this as much as you are. And people that don't quite understand why you're not mowing all of your plantain or why you don't why you don't spray Roundup on your dandelions.
I'm sure my old neighbor where where I used to live wondered why I didn't mow very much.
That's a long story, but I once got paid when I was a teenager for spraying dandelions. And boy, have I come around.
Tempted heavily.
Now I have a company where it's in my logo.
Right. There you go. I I love dandelions. I I just think they're marvelous.
I have a I have a, page on the wall here that I copied out of the bread and puppet subversive vegetable calendar for nine Mhmm. Two thousand and six. And it's a, a woodcut of a dandelion, and above it is in in large type is the word resist.
So I copied that off the calendar. Nope.
It's survivor of the dandelion.
So, so I've got a few here announcements before we cut it off and give away the prize and stuff. And, I'm gonna let Betsy go here. She can hang out and listen as she wants. But I just wanted to thank you so much for sharing what you shared with us and helping all the people that were out there.
And and, you know so much.
This has really been a treat.
It's fun.
Mhmm. Sure is.
I get to, get in touch with my old, radio DJ days and feel I feel kinda kinda feeling like Terry Gross on fresh air.
Yeah. I know who you mean.
So, just a couple of things.
Just a couple of announcements here. If anybody was thinking about getting an herbal medicine making kit, I announced in an herbal branch that we're taking a break for a while because we're a bit busy with WildCraft coming and everything. And we've I didn't even think this could possibly happen, but we sold nearly sixty seven in three weeks, and that was nearly all that I was gonna make. And I thought that was gonna last me through December. But I've got about nine of them left. So if anybody's listening and then wanted to give it as a gift, now is the time, because they're gonna be gone for a while.
We also have copies on the website for sales from Earth to Herbalist that I talked about. It's also on here.
A couple of frequently asked questions about WildCraft, an herbal adventure game. People have been wanting to know when it's gonna be ready for sale. Later in the night of the Susan Weed interview, the November thirtieth, it'll go up for sale and probably shipping around December fifth. We got confirmation that it is on the boat on the way. We even got our first couple of cases via air mail, and we're really excited. It looks incredible.
So, people wanna know if there's a discount. Yep. You can get a free one for every five that you buy, and, that's that.
And let's see. November twenty seventh, is our next teleconference, and we've got John Young. He's world famous tracker and naturalist, and he's extremely knowledgeable in plants and nature, natural health. He's he uses a guy that can talk about anything, and he's extremely entertaining to listen to really no matter what he's talking about.
So He sure is.
He, I think he was teaching at the tracker school for a little while while you were there probably.
Oh, I've I've listened to John teach a couple of times. Yep. He's really enjoyable.
Yeah. Yeah. I it's, so it's gonna be it's gonna be fun.
And then we wrap up the series on November thirtieth with Susan Weed, and, that'll be a full call probably.
Then you can and if you wanna keep either of these two, you can go back and sign up for them if you didn't sign up for them before.
Let's see. And, oh, yes. And now the final moment we're all you've been waiting for. Tonight, I'm raffling off a copy of Shonlea's Quest. Do you know this book, Betsy?
No. I don't.
Well, Shonlea's Quest is a very under, under promoted book. Tom Elpow, the the man who brought us botany in a day, which has been a savior for us to learn and teach about plants Mhmm.
Came out with this book. And it is written by him, and and it's a children's book, but it's for ages. It says nine to ninety nine. It's a botany adventure for kids and say, what happens here? You know how Betsy and I were talking about fam plant families before.
It teaches plant families. Shonlea is the character, and she goes from island to island, and there's the pea island. There's a mustard island. And so it teaches kids the patterns of the plants, in each family in a beautifully illustrated children's book.
Oh, how wonderful.
It's so cool. And I do sell that on Learning Herbs too. But somebody, I'm not gonna tell you who, I'm gonna do my special high-tech raffling system here.
And, let's see here. It's very high-tech.
He'd be I'll be would be so impressed with with the piece of paper out of a jar?
Pretty much. Yeah.
And so we'll do our raffle.
I bet I I lost the little the little thing where I had the name all organized.
Just give me a second here. I feel so I wasn't all organized, Betsy. What happened?
Sorry.
Maybe I'm just still You know what we usually do in Raffles?
We get we get children to pick out of baskets to make it really fair because we know that children couldn't possibly cheat, so we get kids to do it.
Here she is. Here she is. Okay. It's, Ellen McGlynn.
Ellen McGlynn, I will email you, and then you can reply with your, with your address and, for me. Got your got that all lined up for you. Alright. So, Ellen, congratulations on that. And, everyone, I look forward to having you all back through John Young and Susan Weid's talk.
Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks again to Betsy, and I hope everyone has a great night and got a lot out of this talk.
So say say bye, Betzy.
Thank you again. Take good care.
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