Nome McBride: Life & Times of an Herb Farmer and Xtreme Wildcrafter

Episode #25 March 24, 2016

Nome McBride is an herbalist, farmer, wildcrafter and medicine maker from Eugene, Oregon.

He grew up farming in Indiana and was making tinctures in his parents garage before he could drive. Nome founded Pharmacopia Herbals in 2004, whose original name was Under the Yew Botanicals.

You can find Nome’s book, the Herbal Preparations Books, along with hundreds of products Pharmacopia Herbals creates at PharmacopiaHerbals.com

Nome tells his story, from growing up on an Indiana farm to his extreme wildcrafting missions that make Pharmacopia Herbals remedies some of the best available. Nome also covers a couple of his favorite herbs, including pedicularis. Learning how Nome gathers, grows and processes herbs in addition to his vision of “people, plants and place” are truly inspirational.

Episode Transcript

From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.

You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com. I'm John Gallagher. My guest today is Nome McBride. Nome is an herbalist and wildcrafter from Eugene, Oregon. He grew up farming and was making tinctures in his parents' garage before he could drive, and now he runs Pharmacopia Herbals, a company he started in two thousand and four whose original name was under the U Botanicals. You can find his book, the Herbal Preparations book, along with hundreds of products Pharmacopeia Herbals creates from single extracts to glycerites to oils, salves, syrups, bulk herbs, and much more at pharmacopeiaherbals.com, p h a r m a c o p I a, herbals dot com. Nome, welcome to Hermita Radio.

Thank you for having me.

When finally, I should say, you know, like, you know, it's back in two thousand and five, or maybe it was two thousand and six, but I think it might have been two thousand and five, we were both at the Northwest Herbal Fair, and it was our, it was our learning herb's first booth event where we ever sold our Herbal Kit or ever did anything like that. And, you were there and you were right across from us. And, and what was really interesting is right next door to your booth, Earthwalk Northwest was, and that's where I met Rosalie, who works with HerbMeter now. And so that was, that we go way back.

I remember that event. I think that was actually, that was probably one of our very first, booth events that we ever had with a full on booth. That was, I remember that booth. We still use the same booth.

It's a it's a native Northwest cedar booth. I remember building that, and then we took it up there. And we were trying to put it together there for the first time, actually. So I remember that then that was where as soon as we got the booth put together, the, kitchen of the, herbal fair caught on fire.

And so I thought now that I've spent two weeks building this and I finally got it together, it's just gonna burn up. But but luckily, they got the fire out and the herb air went on.

But Yeah.

That's right. That was quite eventful.

Yeah. That was one to remember for sure.

And if you if you're listening to this on earthmentor dot com, you can see the a photo of Nunn there with his booth. And I remember seeing you put that together going, oh, wow. That that's really cool and feeling a little inadequate about my Yeah. That was, yeah, that was awesome.

So, let's see here. You know, Noam, I wanna you know, something that that really struck me even when I first met you and going into your booth and, just the feeling of your, the herbs that you gather and the medicine that you make, you know, it's it's just really something different, something special. So when I when I ran into you again, we were neighbors this summer at the Northwest Irvin Fair, same gathering many years later. And, I saw your booth, and I'm like, oh, I wanna go and hang out next to Nome.

So I sat up next to you. And, and so there, you know, again, it was just it's it's amazing how far your your products and everything have come in that short amount of time.

Really impressive. And and so I wanted to share your story with people.

So tell us how you first started learning about herbs and connecting with plants, because in our mentor, we just love getting folks' stories about how they got started.

Right. Right. Yeah. Well, it's, it's a long story, I guess. It just starts with when I got born because I, you know, I I was born back in Indiana.

And, around there, there's not much, but just a lot of fields.

And so, you know, I I grew up, kind of in the middle of just a bunch of corn fields, and it's sort of capable that you know how to grow things.

And, you know, my grandparents run a pretty big farm back there of, you know, your standard crops, your corn, your winter wheat, soybeans, alfalfa, you know, cattle and hogs. And so I spent the summers there growing up doing that on their farm.

You know, that was the that was about a five hundred acre plus farm. And, you know, I think by the time I was probably I I think it was six or maybe it was seven, but it was definitely right in there. You know, they let me drive the, you know, like, the three hundred horsepower tractor to bale hay. You know, first, they let you rake hay for a whole season, and then, you know, excuse me. If you can rake hay into a straight road, then the next year they'll let you drive the baler.

You know?

And I always had allergies too bad. So I tried being the guy that runs behind the wagon when I was older, you know, in my teen years and picked up, you know, bales of hay and, to detassel corn and things like that that is common for teenage kids to do in Indiana for a summer job. But I just could never do it, so I ended up in the tractor a lot with the cab all around me.

Otherwise, I'd end up, you know, just, too allergenic, which, you know, in later years, I think a lot of these herbs that I've come to use, I don't really have any of those problems now as much. So, you know, it's just interesting to see that progression. But, you know, so you kinda grow up in that lifestyle of farming and, you know, but on the on the one hand, that's a certain type of farming.

It's not really, you know, exactly what we embody with what we do now. But of course, you always take what you know and integrate it into what you are doing currently in your life. So that has a big effect on me. I think growing up with spending lots of times there and in kind of the middle part of my youth, many summers in a row, just spending the summer there and working on the farm.

You know? And then eventually that progressed to, you know, they let me, you know, plant crops with the planter and, you know, and then weed crops. You know? And, you know, that means driving the tractor all day and weeding twenty rows at a time of corn behind you.

You know?

And so, you know, it it all transfers over now to I'm doing the same thing looking back and I look I'm looking back on my tractor and I'm doing I do two or three rows with the setup I have now and, you know, I'm weeding whatever it is, you know, Tulsi. And I'm looking back and I'm sometimes I find myself. I look down at the dirt, and I I'm driving, and then I kind of, you know, I kinda space out. And I I when I look up, I'm I'm sure that I'm in Indiana again.

You know? And I'm just driving the tractor, and then, you know, I realize I'm not. Here I am in Oregon. I'm driving my tractor on my field, but it's just that feeling of being there, weeding those plants.

You kinda don't know where you are. You're just in I'm weeding plants on my tractor zone. But but it takes you back to, you know, whether you're doing it on twenty rows of corn or three rows of holy basil. You know, it's just like one solid kind of stream of consciousness in a way. So you're always connected right back to that first time.

You know, I can still You know, so that stays with you.

But then, you know, so my grandpa would take like.

You know, so that stays with you. But then, you know, so my grandpa would take us down and we'd, you know, we'd go harvest sassafras sticks for whenever we did marshmallows or, you know, we'd always have a cookout usually like once a week on a fire out in the field somewhere.

So, you know, we started, you know, at a young age even on that kind of farm, you know, wild crafting is just, you know, as my grandparents said, you know, and they, you know, they were the generation that, you know, was convinced that, you know, with, you know, synthetics, You know, you can get a bigger crop, and you can get less pests, and you can get no weeds, and this and that. And, you know, and so they they bought into that, and and they farmed that way, you know, in their later years. And I think eventually had some regrets after seeing the way that I farm. And that's hard for them to express.

But, you know, but they, you know, as they always say, you know, before all that, you know, we were organic before there was organic. You know, we just, that's just the way it was. There wasn't even all the stuff didn't even exist yet. So now they really get what I'm doing, which connects it even more.

Wow. But on that, you know, you know, but on that yeah. So yeah. And actually this year, it was great.

My grandpa came out and, and my grandma, you know, in their, I I think, just about in their eighties. And, Wow. Until my grandpa was out there. We fixed the irrigation pump and howed a couple rows, and, you know, that was indescribably intricate to be with him doing that on my field now.

That's something. So did you So did you, like, use, like, like, when you were in Indiana growing up, I mean, at some at some point, you started getting into medicinal plants.

Right. So, yeah, so kind of where I was leading was that so that was the, you know, that was their basic thing. But, you know, wildcrafting is just is just a way of life there. So, you know, we'd go harvest Sassafras sticks for, you know, from from for making, yeah, because you want a fresh stick when you are making a, hot dog or a s'more on a fire so that it doesn't burn because a dry stick is gonna burn. So you need something fresh, but it can't be poisonous. And you have to have something that doesn't catch on fire easy.

And and then the sassafras will kinda season your hot dog and make it taste good. If you put the hot dog on in the same direction as the stick versus if you put the hot dog on perpendicular to the stick. And then you kinda get the sassafras stick all the way through the hot dog, and it infuses it with that flavor a little bit. So, anyway, so we did that and we picked mushrooms and we'd go get poke leaves when they're just coming up and we'd harvest those. And in Indiana we have wild asparagus and we go collect that for dinner.

And so there was always kind of this interplay between, you know, and there was even ponds on the farm and we'd fish. But there was an interplay between, you know, us, the people that live there and using all the land, know, not just cropping the fields, but, you know, trying to find a way to use the fence rows and get nutrients out of different parts of the farm. So that was kind of always just a part of what we did. And so, you know, that developed in me over the years. And then I think, you know, a few different things happened. And one thing in particular that really got me, you know, into herbs was, somewhere around ninth or tenth grade for me, I started getting into African drumming.

And that all started with, that all started with, there was an African drum and dance troop that had come from a a bigger city nearby to my small town, and they had put on a performance for us. You know?

And, I was on the, I was on the crew that, like, cleaned up the auditorium after. And so I noticed that the main, the main djembe player, had been chewing on this stick the whole time. And so then when I was cleaning up, he actually had left it.

Like, I think he just forgot it or it fell out. You know?

I don't know. But it was sitting there. And so I picked it up and I thought, well, this guy doesn't seem like he's, you know, got any weird things. So I just started sucking on it like he was.

And I thought, well, what is this thing? And, you know, it actually I sucked on that one piece of stick for about, I don't know, six months, and then about a year passed. And I never figured out what it was or anything. And I never talked to that guy again.

And so then, and, you know, and and so then, I ended up figuring out I'm not sure I saw it at, like, some there was, like, a street vendor somewhere with a jar, and I saw, oh, there that that's it. That's what that stuff was. You know? And so I go figure out, and it's licorice root.

Right? And so Oh. You have been chewing sticks, you know, you kinda clean your teeth with it and whatnot.

And so and so I thought, oh, yeah. Well, that stuff tasted great. You finally have some. You know? So I got, like, four or five more sticks or whatever, and that was, like, a two year supply or something of just chewing on them and keeping them in your pocket to chew on. So, you know, so I got those and then actually ended up kinda remeeting that djembe player and, started drumming with him, like, every week.

It was kinda my Sunday rituals. We we do the drumming all morning.

And there was a group that did that. And so, you know, and those guys were always making, like, ginger tea and lemon tea and different kinds of teas, they were bringing in. And so, you know, I didn't really know anything about herbs at that point, and I wasn't really that focused on the herbs, but I was starting to use them. You know? And I was using the licorice root, and I was noticing teas more so than I had been.

And so that that kind of went on for a while. And then, then I went off and I was in, I was in a college.

It was kind of a there was kind of a almost post high school time where I was in college at the same time for a little bit, but I had a I had a botany teacher, and, he was really into medicinal plants. And so I took a couple of botany courses. And, in there, they required us to do a report on medicinal plants. And so this was really the first time I had, you know, straight up done research. Or, you know, at this point, I didn't have any real books on medicinal plants. I think I had a couple of books on wild food plants.

Was what was that was it from a the standpoint of, you know, actually using the medicinal plants, or was it more like ethnobotanical research in the class?

Well, it was, it was from the standpoint, I think, of actually using them.

Okay.

You know, maybe maybe ethnobotanical, but I don't even think they know what that is in Indiana still or, you know, or I'm not sure. I mean, back in the nineties or what this was like two thousand or something. This guy didn't, you know I mean, maybe he did, but, you know, and I think back actually now, I would have been about six teen seven seventeen, I think.

That's, like, eleven years ago, you know, something. And I think that, you know, I think actually before that, I was I did I after I got into the licorice rue, but before that, actually, I can come back to that. Yeah. I did.

I started getting into more, like, food plants. I picked up a book, Native Food Plants of Indiana, and some other books like that and kinda started trying to figure out what some more of these things, like, I'd used as a child were, like the poke and the sassafras and what's really you know, I didn't really realize you could make sassafras into an extractor into a tea. I just knew it was hot dog sticks. You know?

And so I think I had been getting into that more because well, right around the same time was when I got my driver's license when I was sixteen. So this, you know, the botany class must have been just after this. But I do know that before I could drive, I'm, you know, sometime after African drumming and before botany. But but but pre driver's license, I definitely have fond memories. And I'm sure my mother also has not as fond, but vivid memories of me, you know, just wild crafting. And I remember, I remember the first tincture I ever made was goldenrod and the second tincture I ever made was rose hips out of a some kind of rose.

I'm not sure which rose, but it's a it's a native Indiana rose. I mean, the hips are about they're about as big as a pea.

And so harvesting those and then cutting them all in pieces is a real job. But those were some good extracts, you know.

Did You know, in the Did they did they help what were they what were their reaction?

I mean, because, I mean, it it almost seems like based on your story that it was a very fairly natural thing that, to work with plants and all. I mean, where was it? It's like, oh, that that gnome. He's just up to something.

Yeah. Well, people you know, I think that there was kind of this weird supply. It it wasn't something that could be, you know, that that anybody was gonna make you feel wrong for because it was something that seemed kinda right, but no one really had ever heard of this. So it was just sort of it was just it wasn't even something they'd pass judgment on yet. It was just sort of beyond them to even consider what I was doing.

But surely your grandparents, like, used extracts.

I mean, this I mean, that was on the pharmacy shelves, extracts of these plants. Right?

Right. So what I started finding was that, you know, people that were in my generation just thought I was crazy. And then people that were more like my parents just didn't really know about it, but just kinda let it go. And then people like my grandparents, they actually really got it. And so I then I sort of got this new bond with my grandparents that they were the only ones that really, you know, understood. And I think from the beginning, have it always have showed the most support for, you know, what I'm trying to do and, you know, just whatever they can do to see, you know, the a farm succeed also too, you know. And they you know, it's been it's been hard, you know.

People don't understand the life of of making medicine and farming and the way the cycles work. But, you know, my grandparents, they do. You know, they understand that even though we're hoeing this row, like, I'm already thinking about what the crop rotation will be here in two or three years and that's really where your mind is, you know. But, you know, but you're you're doing this today and people don't understand those kind of cycles.

So so so getting into this, you know, really brought me back to my roots because the only people I could talk to about it that understood the timing and the cycles and what this all really means, yeah, they you know, it was my grandparents. Because I I think that, you know, they did do that. And they, you know, they made their sauerkraut and their apple sauce and they pickled their pickles. And once you started talking to them, you know, I realized they started saying, yeah.

I don't know about that. And then you talk to them more, and then they say, yeah. You know, I remember actually we did do that. You know?

And actually, I remember that, yeah, we did this and that and, you know, something else and, you know, and so then it was like I started getting almost lessons from my grandma on how to can things and, you know, different preparations they made, and it wasn't maybe as scientific or complicated. It was more like something from the book Firefox or something. But, but, but, yeah, you know, they knew what I was up to, and they thought that it was a clever idea, I think.

Although they, you know, they hadn't really done it in sixty years.

That's just so beautiful, like, you know, like you say, and just just having your grandfather there and being on your farm.

Did did do they see, does your grandfather feel there's, you know, like, you know, when you share with him what people are doing these days and he sees what you're doing, does he feel good about the future of farming and all? Because I know that in his state, I mean, I I lived in I went to college in Indiana, so I lived in Indiana for a bit. And I and and, it it in Bloomington, you know, I Uh-huh.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. They're right outside of Bloomington down there.

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yep. That's wild. That I so I I'm familiar with the, you know, farmers and what's happened to the family farm and everything and and all that. I mean, I I not just I mean, a lot of people might know that, but I felt it because I went to school with a lot of people and who were from those farms and those towns.

That's right.

Used to manage, rock bands who would southern Indiana, who we would tour all around, and I would go through these small southern Indiana towns. And I and I saw that the downtowns were, like, you know, well, boarded up usually except for the bar.

Yep. Right?

Yep.

And, and so Disney The bar and the church.

The bar and the church. Yeah. Really.

Right in the city the city square around the courthouse and all. And and so, like, you know, does he see this being that he's lived from the times when things seem like they're alright and then through all of this and kinda how it is now, but does he see a a hope and a resurgence of farming in in in general?

You know, that's a hard question to answer. I think that you asked him that, he'd just cry probably. Mhmm. But, I think that seeing what we do out here is inspiring.

Mhmm.

And may and may give them some hope, but I think that, you know, it's a pretty depressed state back there. And I think that farmers are not very fulfilled right now with what they do, back in those states. They're just kind of doing it because you have to because now you're so far in on tractor payments and things.

You know, I don't know. It's definitely not what it was when he started and, you know, him and my grandma had a single wide mobile home, and they, you know, they build it into a, you know, a home and a barn and a second home for their workers and, you know, had a really pretty nice bustling farm. You know. On, you know, and and back then a five hundred acre farm was huge, you know, that was a big farm, you know.

And now five hundred acre farms are all conglomerating into one ten thousand acre farm because that's barely big enough to compete with the big guys. Right. You know? And so I think just going from a big fish to doing the same things and just inherently now you're almost meaningless is just kind of a little bit it's kinda hard to deal with emotionally when you build your life work.

And then as soon as you build it, no one cares anymore.

Right.

So I think it's just really hard back there. But I think that, you know, they are you know, they definitely encourage young farmers, and they wanna see it. I don't think they know how to change it because they don't you know, they just aren't presented with these ideas to know what to do next, but they wish that something would happen. And they but what they do know is the value of producing a crop, for whatever it's for and what goes into it.

And that whatever it's sold for, they understand the true value of what it takes to do that. And so, and they know that when you do that, it kind of instills that kind of sense of value into the person that grows it. And I think that they wanna see people that understand that you know, more so than just people farming and the crops that are produced. They wanna see, you know, people evolve in the, you know, in the new generations They have those kinds of understandings about how things work and what you can learn from seeing all that happen.

I liked that movie. Did you see that movie, The Real Dirt on Farmer John?

I did see that.

Yeah. That was that was that that was a good one for you know, especially when you're talking about a Midwest farm and different models and things that you know?

I'd say that's pretty that movie was pretty right on, pretty typical story.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So folks watch that movie. It's on, to get Netflix streaming, it's on Netflix streaming.

So so, Noam, how how much of what you or, herbally, what you use in your company is do you wildcraft versus farm?

Right. So, you know, it's I I think about this, and I'm not sure, I think I could do the math. But what I think it is is I think that we probably so there's different ways to look at this. I think as far as the individual number of products, which I could just count out, it's probably about fifty fifty or maybe even a little bit more of them are grown than wild crafted as far as if you look at our single herb extract line, maybe sixty forty grown versus wild crafted. Now if you look at the amount of weight that we use in herbs a year, it's about fifty fifty or even sixty forty wildcrafted versus grown because we specialize more in a lot of these wildcrafted herbs.

And so, you know, we sell more of the wildcrafted herbs because as we have a you know, we don't compete as much on the grown herbs.

Whereas, you know, when we specialize and really promote the wild crafting, even though it's a smaller selection of the products, I think that we actually use up more plant material of those material.

And and and and we're talking, just so people to put it in your perspective, single extract wise, there's nearly four hundred or so herbs on Pharmacopea Herbals site, when you go through that. So you're talking I mean, what I was saying here that in the wild crafting world, you're you're you're we're we're talking probably well over a hundred and fifty plants that you're wildcraft.

Yeah. Yeah. We wildcraft probably in a in a given year depending on orders and necessity, you know, and we don't harvest everything every year. But if you if you take everything we harvest, it's probably around a hundred and fifty, even a hundred fifty plus species of plants.

If you break it into the different parts of each species, it could be up into the two hundreds, actual, like, different parts of plants that we harvest.

Because you may have to nettles we would harvest, now we grow nettles, but that's something that you harvest three times a year. So if you were to count each part as a different thing, it'd be up into the two to three hundred plants. But, yeah, maybe a hundred fifty species. And I think we grow in a given year, anywhere from, you know, probably at any time if you just go to our farm, there's, like, fifty species that usually we just can't get rid of or we're growing and, you know, but up to a hundred plus species at the farm Mhmm. As well.

So I you know, the thing that strikes me when I'm at your booth and and and your and and, you know, I had the chance to eavesdrop this year because I was in the booth right next to you. Not that I was intentionally eavesdropping.

It's just that you're you're sitting there and you're sitting there and it's it's quiet and you're and you're hearing what you're saying to people next door, you know. And And you always have these great stories, like, because you're telling people, oh, well, you know, there's this one herb and I went and I gathered it here. And I'd love it, like, you know, for, you know, for folks to get a sense of that, like, because when you're not a lot of people really associate, like, if they're buying a herbal remedy, if it's wild crafted, like what went into that and the story behind it. So I just, you know, like, if you wanna talk talk about an herb or two of of your favorite ones that you wild craft and the stories behind it, I would love to share it if you were willing to share that with people.

Sure. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really, wild crafting. You know? It's not like, you know, relaxed crafting or, you know, hanging out in a lawn chair crafting.

It's, like, really wild and crazy, like, risking your life crafting something.

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us some stories. Oh, yeah.

Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Well, I mean, a lot of these places we go, especially to get some of these northwest native plants, you got your particularises and the and the some of these big meadow plants.

You know, you have to drive up these roads that are really barely there.

You know, even in July, you're going through a couple feet of snow to get there. So let's see. Oh, here's a good well, jeez.

You know, so just getting there in your auto is part of the equation, not falling off the mountain. You know? We have a couple of places where there's, there's a hairpin turn in the road, and it's all gravel or just dirt and gravel.

So there's this one place where you're driving down the mountain and we we had a guy up picking and, and I was leaving I left in front of him and I didn't realize that this happened really. But so this is just a short story, but this is an example of getting there. And then and so, you know, we're coming this is leaving from a trip, but we're coming down the mountain. And when you're coming down the mountain, you're always loaded. So, you know, we tend to drive faster on the way up when you're not loaded and then slower on the way down when you're heavier and you're all loaded. You don't wanna steal your load or drive off the mountain.

And so he's coming down and then, you know, on the right side of the car coming down is the mountain, and you've got it. It's pretty just, like, straight down. And then on the left, you know, this is like a single lane road pretty much. On the left, it just goes straight off for probably five or six hundred feet.

You know? And then, you know, and there's just, you know, there's rocks in the road and whatever. So, I mean, rocks, like, as big as the front half of your car kind of rocks, you know, and you're driving around them, like, barely can squeeze through in places. So he's coming down and then he comes around this turn And I'm not sure what happened, but he didn't really make the turn.

And he just slammed on his brakes, and there's still probably a twenty foot, like, an indentation in the road where his car skidded.

And, like, the front passenger side tire goes off the cliff, and there's a tree that's growing up. Like, it's, like, growing out of where the cliff goes straight down, and then it, like, kinda it comes straight out and then then turns at a ninety degree angle and kind of engrossed up. And the front of his car just kinda like you know? I mean, he's probably going five or ten miles an hour as, you know, as slow as he could get his car.

He would've just flown off the cliff. And it hits this tree, and the tree kinda, you know, and stops him. And he was able to get because his truck was rear wheel drive, he was able to use, you know, reverse and get his truck back onto the thing. But, I mean, this little tree has, like, a dent in it still.

So every time you go by, you know, it's kind of like the reminder to buckle up and drive slow kinda thing. You know? And we go by there to pick all the time, and so it's just, I mean, you know, and that's just, like, a cliff.

You know, so I mean, you know, and that's just like a typical, you know, you know, you know, that's just like a typical, like, risk of, you know, daily risks out there. You know?

For what herb are you risk of going to No.

That was actually to probably get, like, some it might have been to get some goldenrod up in a meadow, and maybe, trying to get some angelica or some osha that day, probably You know, and so I'll tell you another one that's really dangerous is the elder trees There's been a few times where there's this one road we go on on up on the same mountain and, you know, and we're talking maybe like Europe at, like, six thousand feet, maybe six thousand five hundred feet. And I love this road because you you go up this mountain road and it's like washboard the whole way up and you get up there and then you come around the back of the mountain and you're looking north, and it's just there it is.

It's just blue sky. You know, you've been in the forest, and you can't see anything really even though you're at top of the mountain. And then you come around and then it's just nothing. And then you're just you're sort of on this north facing cliff, and it's just going straight down the mountain for probably like a mile.

And there's meadows all the way down and colors of green that are indescribable.

And, and so but there's this road that is not maintained in in the past couple years has had, you know, tons of trees and it's really hard to access and whatnot. So but a lot of times I I'm, like, probably the only person that even ever even goes on this road the whole year and it snowed in most of the year. But there's a lot of red elder back there. And so we harvest the elder flowers.

And they are generally flowering up there at six thousand feet in, like, June, you know, maybe even July depending on when you know, right after the snow melts, usually when there's still snow in the ditch, which would be akin to, like, late February or March or something down in the valley, as far as the time of year.

And so, yeah. And so, anyway, so you're back there, and there's these huge boulders. And and and this is the kinda yeah. The same kinda boulders, you know, like half as big as your car, you know, gray kind of just amazing shapes.

And they're kinda like slate these rocks the way they chip away from each other. They have weird kind of, faces on them and planes of, you know, really weird looking rocks. So there's huge piles of these and they're falling down the mountains and there's like a rock quarry going down the mountain. And all over the rocks is red elder, Because red elder grows out and then it grows up, and it can kind of vine along rocks and things like that.

It really likes to grow like that. Whereas, like, a blue elder tree or a black elder tree, it grows up and then out more just like a regular tree. Red elder grows out and then up more like the shape of Opelopanax, of Devil's Club or something. It goes out and then up.

And, actually, there's Devil's Club right in there with this as well, which makes it even a little more complicated to get around. But, so but you're down there with, like, a pear harvesting bag, on your front, strapped over your shoulders. And you you have to climb down these boulders, which are bigger than you. And then but just this whole mountain side is just covered in elders.

So it's kinda nice because if you can get below them, then you can keep picking at chest height.

And so when I was down there one day, and I'm picking, and whenever I had gone there, you know, I was kind of like, yeah. You know, this is great. This is really, like, crazy, and we're getting it, and it's super strong medicine. And, you know, but there's always kinda this fear of, like, you know, like, really, like, how safe is this?

And, like, you know, like, really could these rocks just fall on me and kill me? You know? And and the answer is yes. They can, and they might.

And so one day, I'm kicking along, you know, and then suddenly this rock, probably twenty feet above me, and I'd say at least four feet, if not five feet in diameter, it just moves. It goes. You know. And instantly, my whole body is, like, total shock frozen, you know, just looking up at this rock, seeing my life in front of me. And then goes it it moves a little more, and it and it starts coming down the mountain towards me. And it goes, like, maybe I mean, it was probably ten feet away, and it probably moved four feet. And it and it goes.

You know? And in that time, my entire life was just over, and I was just ready to be completely smashed in the you know, straight in the face by this rock that would have probably just, you know, smeared me on the one below me like a fly on the wall. And, you know, it just assumes that my life was was over, and everything went in front of my eyes. And I, I mean, I couldn't even move. I was so terrified. I couldn't get out of the way if I had the time.

And and then it stopped Gosh.

Right there. You know? It was like it's like in a movie where, like, you know, they're gonna die and they confess everything and then, like, the plane doesn't wreck or some you know, or whatever. You know?

You know? Or what it's one of those kind of things. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, I'm still alive. And so then, you know, I kinda vowed to never go back to that place and pick Elder again.

That was, like, close enough for me. You know? I didn't wanna wiggle that rock again. But so, you know, that was one that really got my heart racing.

That one was kind of intense. You know, and then it really makes you know, so those elder flowers were some pretty powerful stuff, and I'm hoping that whoever got that batch really, could feel that.

Do do you do you just find a correlation between the stories and the locations and the and the energy of the medicine?

Well, there definitely is. And and, you know, and that's the great part. And it's also the hard part because, you know, then you're taking it back and it gets blended up and it goes into an elderflower extract and it's in the allergies or something. You know? Uh-huh. And, you know, and the the great part is that I know that, man, that is that stuff is the, you know, the super high mountain, powerful energy, life and death. You know, this stuff will probably save your life because I had to almost die on mine to get it for you kind of energy.

You know? But the but then the sad part is that it's, you know, someone's gonna pick it up for eight fifty nine at the store, and it's just another bottle of allergies. And, yeah, it's gonna work for their allergies, but they're you know? How do I get that story to them?

You know, I wish they would know, but, you know, the reality is is most of the time you don't know. But so on the other hand, if you get my stuff, I'd say just assume something like that might have happened to get the herbs in your bottle. You know? And so, you know, it may be more powerful than your regular old elderflower, because it's not that uncommon.

It's something of that caliber will happen.

And and and wildcrafting, the one the way you do it, this is like high impact wildcrafting, it feels.

Yeah. Yeah. On on me.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, that is it something that you just like keeping in your life to that level because it just helps you really stay connected or just helps it, like, you know, overall? It's like why you do it?

Yeah. No. The definitely, kind of the rush is part of it. Like, I definitely like being on top of the mountain and being able to see every mountain peak in Oregon while having, like, some really intensive, you know, you know, Sanskrit chant put to beat or something, like, blasting out of my stereo and just, like, standing there or in total silence with just the wind and the flapping of a bird above or whatever. Just, you know, standing there for me, you know, that's the medicine that I think fuels me. And it actually just kinda hints on something I I wanted to talk about, which is kinda like my theory of extraction and this whole idea of why we even do this.

But But, but but but, yeah, for me, it's like, you know, to be up there, when I get up there, that's the medicine for me, really.

And then you know, because people talk about, you know, extracts and and tinctures and herbs, and you've got drugs, and, you know, and there's this thing about, you know, and then you've got naturopaths and the nature cure and just walking in the bare barefoot on the grass, and that's all you need. And there's all these different levels, and people have all these opinions about what, medicine should be and what herbs are and the and the role of herbs and the role of drugs. And and I used to be kind of a person that for a while, you know, disowned anything that was allopathic or, anything like that. And and on the one hand, you know, all the the farmers in my family that we talked about, that's all on my mom's side. Now on my dad's side of the family, everyone has been a doctor.

His dad was our town's only doctor, a ear, eye, nose, and throat doctor.

And, when he went out of practice, my dad bought his building and is an optometrist.

And my brother's also a medical doctor. And so on that side of the family, you know, there's a there's a history of that medical doctor. And my dad's dad is the ear, eye, nose, and throat doctor. He actually grew about an acre of herbs and and, nutritive foods behind his practice.

You know? And actually, that was part of his practice, and he made extracts. And he actually had extraction manuals that everyone thought was just totally wacky, and they, like, burned it when he died because it was too embarrassing to for the family to have or something. By the time he died, even though when he was in his prime, it was just normal.

You know, and those are things that probably I could have picked up and discontinued on the work, but they're just lost. So, you know, in his his, what was was his half acre onion patch when I was in my early years became a baseball field. You know? So oh, well.

But, you know, trying to bring that back. So yeah. So but to get up on the mountain, you know, that's, you know, and it's like this real conglomeration. And so the idea is, you know, where does this medicine come from?

And so, you know, thinking about even for me, you know, the only reason to even make an herbal product is if you need to take that medicine and you can't get to the herb in the mountains itself and just eat it right out of the ground without even using your hands or even just looking at it. And then another step is to just be there. So people talk about, oh, yeah, drugs are isolated and whatever, you know, and you should just use tinctures. Well, it's like, well, really tinctures are just isolated.

And I mean, obviously, I make tinctures and I'm promoting their use. But on the other hand, let's really look at this as a society. It's like, you know, those are just, you know, it's like a drug is an isolate of one chemical. Well, a tincture is an isolate of a bunch of the chemicals of a plant.

You know? And so then it's like, okay, let's not use tinctures. Let's just eat plants. Well, yeah.

I'd say, you know, if you can just get out to the mountain and eat the fresh ocean root right on the ground with the meadow dirt still on it, it's always gonna be better than the ocean extract. You know, obviously the reality is that even for myself, you can't get up to the meadow to keep the ocean root right out of the ground because you know, you know, it's under snow for eight months of the year, or you don't know where the meadow is, or you live somewhere in the middle of the country and there is no ocean meadow or or whatever. You know, it's not realistic. So we make these extracts, but the plant would be even better.

But then to go another step, you know, okay. You know, don't stop there. You know, really, the plants are just an isolate of one expression of what the totality of nature is. Because nature itself, mother nature, the whole covering of our earth and under our earth with crystals and in the sky with different things up there, You know, even, like, you know, like asteroids or something. I think you could extract those and it'd be a medicine. You know?

So everything is you know, it's just these different particles. And so why do, you know, why did it make nettles and why did these things come together in the form of OSHA and Calendula.

Right? So those things are just like extracts of the totality of, like, the bag of tricks of mother nature of the potential of the configurations.

And so when you come all the way back to that, it's like if you don't wanna take something that's isolated, the only thing you can take is to just go and immerse yourself in the experience of being in nature. And when you're just there, whether it's on the top of the mountain or the bottom of a cave or underwater in a river or wherever it you know, they all have a different energy, and they all possess all the same energy at the same time.

Like, you can tap into the same totality of energy, but all through their own unique way in each place, in any place.

And I think always just even within yourself. So, you know, so then it's like, and then really even like, you know, you are an expression of all that, but on the other hand, since you are you, it's like you almost it's like you can even go to that nature.

The air I'm breathing in my office right now goes out my door and connected eventually to that meadow where the OSHA is. You know? So can I breathe in and pull the air instead of from behind my house out the front door from the meadow where the OSHA is all the way into my office so I can just breathe the OSHA right here? You know, I'm eighty five miles away from my OSHA meadow or something. You know? And so, you know, my you know, so when I'm making an extract, the point here is that, you know, I'm putting this energy of I'm not trying to just make you elderflower because it's better than drugs because it's not a pharmaceutical. And I'm not trying to make you elderflower because it has all the constituents out of the elderflower.

And, I'm trying to make elderflower so that you can experience what it is to stand on the side of this mountain and get the rush of this rock almost crushing you for your life. And then how grateful you are that you have this elder flower to use.

You know, and it's more about that whole experience of delivering people into just, you know, what it feels like to be one with nature. Not even I'm in nature.

I'm looking at nature, but where you know, that moment when you forget the distinction between your body and everything around you and you just are like, you know, usually, it's like a split second.

And maybe you can hold it there longer, you know, where you just are fully one and realize that you and this tree and this OSHA bush are all, you know, six or seven different atoms and you're made up of the same thing.

That right there, that right there, if you have a moment like that, you'll probably be healed a lot longer than with a dropper full of OSHA tissue.

So trying to bring that theory and that vibration and that energy into the products is really the goal. And to use the products with the intention that you know, this is, you know, we know that you can't get there to get this OSHA root out of the ground. And that's why we made this for you. But we didn't just put it in a bottle and blend it and just pump it out, you know, so we can sell another bottle of something.

We really did it so that you can, hopefully, when you take this, not only get the physical chemical therapy from the, you know, from what's in this bottle, but actually, hopefully your mind will go to a place similar to what it would be like if you can stand on that mountain. And that will heal you more than any herb is ever gonna heal you in the end. You know? So trying to get that theory through.

And that's something that just go into the mountains all the time, just, you know, it it teaches you and the plants tell you things. And, you know, for a couple years, I was on the, you know, oh, tinctures are the ultimate. And then I was like, no, just eating the herbs. And then I was like, no, just coming here.

You know? And so, you know, and I and I always tell people when I teach classes and I do, you know, and I think even in that in my book, the herbal preparations book, it says right in there that no extract will ever be better than one you can even make yourself. You know? And if you can't make one yourself or you run out, come and get mine.

But No.

Exactly. I thought Yeah.

Yeah. But the reason is that, you know, my, yeah, my, you know, my OSHA extract or my Yarrow or whatever, it probably has more constituents because I might have the ability with my equipment to make it at a stronger, you know, weight to volume. And I my tincture press presses it out at forty tons, and it may get more out and all this and that. So that, yeah, maybe it's more efficacious if you ran it through a chromatographer.

But, you know, when you do your own and you go even especially if you harvest your own herbs, you know, if you can close your eyes when you take that OSHA extract and you can see the exact metal where you were and you can look down in your mind's eye, and you can see the OSHA plant, and you can see the the way the dirt looks in the hole when you dig it out and turn it over. And you can feel what it feels like to crumble the dirt off in between the the fingers of the OSHA. You know? And you think about all that, and then, you know, you'll get olfactory sensations.

You'll be smelling the tincture, but you'll be smelling the meadow and really going back. It's that healing of going back to that place, when you take your own that really will do even more healing than those thirty drops.

You know, although I would contend that if you get mine, the thirty drops are gonna be strong enough that they'll still help you as much as you need. But, there's always that extra connection.

Know? So I try to put that in there for people even though it's not quite the same. But I'm hoping that I do the you know, deliver that the best of any anyone that makes something for the public. You know, I'm hoping that I mean, I think a lot of companies don't care about that at all, but I definitely am hoping that with what I can provide for people to for them to get better that, you know, some of that can come through, you know, as I know that that is just an ultimate level of healing for them.

And so And and people like folks listening to this, especially if you're new at wild crafting, new Earth Mentor members are all you know, Wild Crafting doesn't have to be going up on the mountain road and facing giant boulders. You can just, you know, on Herd Mentor, there's a wild crafting series on there. You can check you can check out and go through it and get some ideas and all. But, you know, even if you're just, harvesting down by your local park or river or organic farm or in your in a field locally, you know, you could do that too. I don't wanna scare people off.

Yeah. Yeah.

Don't don't don't be frightened because it's, definitely.

Brand of wildcrafting.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and and well, in way back, I was gonna say, you know what? Growing up, I always kinda thought maybe I'd be one of those guys that was, like, one of those extreme skiers or something. And I kind of always envisioned myself in one of those, like, souped up trucks, like, kinda like jumping out of airplanes or something.

Yeah.

You know? And so that never happened. But, you know, I think I try to bring that kind of, intensity to my wild crafting, for sure, you know, and getting out as far as I can.

But, And and and and some of those herbs are, I know a couple of your favorite.

You've mentioned OSHA, but another one, elephant head pedicularis. Right? So Yep. You wanna talk about one or both of those herbs since, a little more in your relationship with them or how you use them or because because if a lot of people who come by, that's where I first really first heard about it. You had a smoking blend with, pedicularis in it and you were talking to me about it and you've done whole classes on it.

So anything you want to say to that extent might introduce people to this, you know, Herb, you have a special relationship with but also probably is quite unfamiliar to most folks.

Right. Right. Yeah. I'll, I'll talk first about pedicularis, and we'll see what we come up with.

You know, pedicularis is becoming more and more popular. And pedicularis is, it can be a common name for a number of species of plants. It's also it's the genus, p e d I c u l a r I s, pedicularis.

And you know these plants have been used forever by the natives of everywhere Pedicularis grows all around the globe We have many species here in the northwest. They go up through BC and Alaska.

They're you know, even in Indiana, there's a a pedicularis in the bogs.

They typically like to grow in places that are wet, with constant supplies of water and even moving water.

And they typically grow high up in the mountains.

Around here, they, you know, they don't grow down in the valley as much, right around me, but there's many species that do in other places. You know, obviously, in Indiana, there are no mountains, so they grow down on the marsh. And in Southern Oregon and California there's a Indian warrior, Pedicularis densiflora, that we do extract and it grows down in the lowlands as well as the mountains.

And so they're they're in the Scrothelariaceae family.

You've got a lot of really powerful plants in this family.

A lot of the plants in this family are somewhat poisonous. A lot of them are really medicinal.

So it's a it's a interesting family.

And the Pedicularises, like I said, they've been used by natives for ceremony, for recreation, for meditation.

And I think in, you know, the last probably twenty years have had a resurgence in popularity, probably mostly due to Howie Brownstein from Eugene Mhmm. And the col Columbine School of Botanical Studies because he's educated and taught about it extensively. And that's where I first learned of it.

And so, you know, it's it's kind of got a resurgence through that. But it is a very useful genus of plants.

And in different areas, different species can be quite abundant.

So it's a very it's a very good plant, I think, to have kind of had a rebirth in as far as all the plants you could have picked that are out there.

And so specifically, one of my favorites and probably, you know, one of the ones I have the most of around here in the mountains is the pedicularis Groinlandica.

And that's Groinlandica means, of Greenland, as in Greenland. And I I I have not been to Greenland, but apparently, there's lots of it there as well. So, the elephant head itself does grow, numerous places around the grow globe at this latitude.

And so, elephant head we call it, and it's it's hard to understand why you would call plant elephant head. But if you can, you know, just Google a picture of it, and you'll see that the plant is made up, and has a basal rosette of leaves that looks somewhat even like yarrow.

They're dark green, but more purply tinged. And then it sends up a flower stock from the base of the rosette.

And at the top of the flower stock is a group of flowers. There may be, oh, I don't know, fifty, sixty individual flowers. And each flower is made up of five petals. And the way they're fused together, appears to look, it's hard to even say looks like the head of an elephant.

I mean, it just is exactly the shape of an elephant. And it leads a wildcrafter to ask such, you know, long and theosophical questions is which came first, you know, the flower of this or the head of an elephant? Like, which shape did nature create first? Because, you know, it's not it's not like it kinda looks like it if you've already seen an elephant.

It just it just is the head of an elephant. And so, you know, we're wondering, could you breed an elephant and an elephant's head flower together and get some kinda, like, you know, walking plant animal thing? Or, you know, is there, like, a DNA gene that makes the head of an elephant and the head of and the flower of this stuff look the same? Or just how could this be?

And so, anyway, it's a very amazing thing to observe.

And they grow from up to you know, the flowers could be anywhere from six to eight inches to we think we've harvested the largest one ever in the world, at least that we know of.

And it was about, you know, I think it was about thirty seven inches from the base to the tip of the flower.

So that was a pretty long stem.

That one may have had some extreme fertilization from some elk in previous years or something.

And so, and so these plants grow up at about well, at at least three thousand feet, but generally thirty five hundred feet and then all the way up to, you know, almost a tree line and, anywhere up in the mountain in a in a meadow.

And, you know, these definitely are some hard places to get into. And, you know, the medicine they have is, is kind of like a it's it's it's a real, like, a light in the dark in a way because the snow is all over the mountains. And, you know, meadow. But, to get into the meadow. But see, the meadow is all full of water. And so the water melts the snow, and then the plants in the meadow start growing long before all the rest of snow is melted.

And usually within one week of the snow melt in the meadow, the elephant head just shoots up from the ground, and it just immediately goes straight to flower. And so you only have a week or two from when the snow in the meadow melts until they're in full flower. And then there's really only about a week window per meadow to harvest it at the right stage. And then the flowers are just burnt out and pollinated, and then they start going to seed. So it's a really kind of a tricky one to get. Wow.

And usually you're standing in anywhere from two or three to six to eight inches of standing water in a muck kind of meadow situation, marshy. And, you know, there's definitely many times when everyone who's ever picked this, you're walking through and then suddenly you step in up to your waist or something, you know, and you're you're, like, stuck in a muck pit, you know, and you're, you know, you gotta, like, take your foot out of your muck boot and then stick your arm down in the muck and it's all full of mud and try to pull it out.

Oh my gosh.

You know, that's that's pretty typical.

Learning how to just walk around in there takes most people about a day before you can even try to harvest anything at the same time.

And so yeah. And so anyway, so that's a really interesting one, you know, and you go up and pick that, you know, to get it into the meadow and then to harvest it and to get out. And these are places where it could be ninety degrees in the day, blistering hot and you're up at six thousand feet and you're in the full sun. And then at night, it goes down to twenty degrees and there's ice on everything, because it's so far up. So it's really extreme. But, you know, it's it's kind of like a like I say, it's a light coming in the dark because it's it's it happens when there's light coming back to the mountains, the mountains are about to wake up and it's about to be spring up there.

And this is like early July usually at six thousand feet. It's like February down in the valley.

You go up the mountain and late in the year and you're back at spring. You know, and by September, it'll be winter up there again. So there's just the whole year happens within a couple of months.

So everything moves very fast. It's definitely a time travel, not a situation. When you go up to the top of the mountain, you go back in time or forward in time, depending when it is and where you go.

And so when I talk about Elephant's Head, and I'm not like even on the packaging, it says like rise to the highest peaks. You know, the energy is really one of like the top of the mountain. It's a really exuberant kind of exalted kind of feeling. And that's what the herb does. You know, it's, like, it's, you know, it's, like, maybe similar to skullcap or some of these calming herbs. It's a calming herb. It's a skeletal and smooth muscle relaxer.

It's, it's really good. The elephant's head is really good for, like, a neck tension, arm tension, shoulder tension, and then also, you know, head tension, both physical and mental, you know, anxiety, stress, turmoils, you know, if you kind of are having these circular thoughts kind of things, you know, the type a just kind of stress case personality type, These people can all benefit. And I think a lot of that is that you're seeing things as being dark and you're stressed out on the kind of the stress side of things when you know, there's always something positive that you could be focusing on. But when you get into this rut of stress and, you know, or even, you know, if your, you know, if your neck hurts, it kinda just puts you in a bad mood or something, you know, it's hard to really be happy when your neck's pinched.

So, you know, this herb just like releases that and it helps unlock that and then it's easier to focus on the positive and then you can kind of once you get on a roll with that, you can stay with it better.

So this is a really good herb, I think, for helping to shift to shift that, you know, if if, you know, mentally and emotionally, you know, when used in that way. It's also really good, you know, just straight up for pain, for muscle pain, for deep pain.

You know, it's not as strong for pain perhaps as, like, bleeding hard or, you know, it's maybe as strong, but in a different way than California poppy.

But it also is a really good herb, to blend, with other herbs. It seems to it's really good by itself, and it has a really good bittersweet kind of woody, flowery flavor flavor. I mean, it all it almost tastes like, you know, and it's purple. So it and it's purple and green and, like, pink, and it's just got these really the the inflorescence, the all the flowers that make up the the top of the flower, you know, the spike on top kind of looks like, like a lupine or or people grow that stuff called, I think it's called, like, rocket or something.

You know, if that's like a cactus or whatever. It kinda is like that where it's like a multicolored conical kind of bud on the top, and it's purple and then pink and then white.

And so it's like this, like, flaming, like, you know, rainbow of purples.

And when when I take it, you know, I I kind of even get, like, it's almost like purple vision.

You know, it's like everything kind of gets this like it's like you put sunglasses on that have a light purple lens in them or something.

Yes.

You know, a little bit.

Yeah. And and you and people tend to wanna smile a lot and maybe laugh a little for no reason, you know. And for a few and and I think that, you know, what I actually, what I just realized is that what this herb may really help you do is that it's just for a few moments, but you kinda, you know, you just totally forget about everything you're stressed on. And it actually kinda takes you to that place of just oneness, like, when you're at the top of the mountain, you know, and you're just you are with the wind. It kinda takes you to that moment for just a minute. And, you know, from there, it's a lot easier to figure out your problems than when you're just dwelling on your problems and, you know, whatever else you're dealing with that day. So, you know, that's definitely part of it is it has that ability to get a little further out and just, you know, get your mind off things.

And you're using it you're you when you're using it, it's either a tincture or your one of your smoke blends. Right?

Yeah. And yeah. It can be used it can be you know, a tincture is really good because it tastes good and it soaks in.

It's probably a little more like this purple vision kind of laughing for no reason if you do smoke it. And, you know, we sell it as, the buds only, which we actually harvest the whole aerial part. And then after it's dry, we break off just the flowers. Mhmm. And they have a really florally taste, and they may have a little more of a slightly psychoactive kind of effect, for sure. And, you know, people definitely use them, you know, recreationally, and natives would use them, you know, meditationally and recreationally.

You know, it's definitely noticeably psychoactive, I tell people.

And, you know, it's very relaxing. But, you know, you can still function to some degree, but, it might be like, if you were drunk on five beers, or if you get drunk on two pints of really good beer, this might be like your first three fourths of a beer or something. You know, if you smoked like a little bit of the elephant's head, you know, and if you had a little more, it might be like halfway through your second beer or something. But it may only last for fifteen, twenty minutes at that level, but, you know, something like that.

You know, you'll definitely have a slightly impaired physical motor skills, but in a good way. And then, you know, and then the tincture is the same, but maybe less dramatic and just more even effects over a longer period.

And then the tea is actually good, but it's very, very bitter. So you wanna use very little herbs to the amount of water, but it's also pretty good, but it's very bitter.

So yeah. And so oh, and I was saying yeah. And so yeah. We have the the buds, and then we also have the leaf and flower, and that burns a little bit slower, you know, and that's probably preferred for tea.

The leaves have a lot of tannins, and tannins make smoke burn thick and slow. So when you mix it with the flowers, which would burn up pretty quick, it adds a little bit more of a body to the smoke if you smoke the leaf and flower.

So, you know, those are kinda my two favorite ways to use it. But I use the extract of it a lot.

And like I was saying, it's really good blended. So if you're taking any other herbs, it helps them, I think, to soak in, to work more evenly, to go to where they need to.

If other herbs have kinda like, maybe like a slightly harsher side to them, like, you know, valerian kinda has a hangover in the morning or, oh, I'm just trying to think. Like, even like bleeding heart, you know, is kind of intense. It's a low dose herb. You know? So you need something to, like, put it in to kinda dilute it down.

Things like that, it really helps to harmonize other herbs together. And so I love to use it as a base for my blends of other herbs. And you can put particularis in a jar, and then it's easy to add, you know, if you wanna add herbs for pain or you wanna add herbs for stress or you wanna add herbs for grief or, you know, even if you're doing a digestive formula, but you want something that's a little bit bitter and calming.

You know, it's a really good base to mix in because it's so it's, you know, it's just so able to be diverse in the ways that it works, in the ways that it can kind of join other herbs together, to actually, you know, create a synergy that's even better than what would have been, you know, originally, you know, just if you you had the blend, I think. So very useful in that way.

You know, thank you, Noam. Before we wrap it up here, and I I I have some things I'd like some people to do I'll mention in a second, but I was just wondering, like, in all that your work that you do, your wildcrafting, all of your farming and the hundred plus herbs you probably grow. Right? I mean, and and and, and the processing and the packaging and the, you know, the whole business that you put together, which is just incredible what you've done. It's just mind blowing.

What I really love about it is I'll see it's all centered in a bigger vision, you know, for the world. So what what is that?

Right. Right. Yeah. There's a lot of day to day and, you know, printing out a shipping label isn't very glorious, but it's all to the end of, you know, seeing you know, I've seen I've seen a lot of this earth, you know, at least here in the in America and and around.

And, you know, I see a lot of pain in the earth, and I see a lot of land that could be happy that's hurt. And, you know, I I see that, you know, there's only so much of that that can happen and that, you know you know, I I went through a long time of life, you know, protesting things I didn't like. You know? And then and then you kinda go through a period of disillusionment about this isn't doing anything, and what am I really doing?

And then, you know, and then I kinda came to the realization that you're always having an impact. If you're doing something, you're making a choice and you're having an impact.

If you are doing nothing and choosing to not choose, you're still making a choice and you're still having an impact. And so the only really thing to do that it left me with was to actually do something.

Amen.

And so I thought, well, okay. I better just actually do something because, you know, fighting what I don't like is still not doing anything. Doing nothing is just allowing it all to happen. So I better do something.

And then, you know, I figured if we all do something, then, you know, then we're all doing something. And then if we're you know, eventually, we are the people that are on this earth. And if we're doing things that are helping the earth and giving back to the earth, then that would just be what the earth is. And sitting around and thinking and talking about it isn't gonna help much, unless we're doing it at the same time.

So, and you don't know where to start, and that's not the point. The point is to just go out in your yard and dig a hole and look at it, and it'll lead you to something else. And by the next thing you know, you'll, you know, you start farming in, two pots on your porch, and the next thing you know, you'll be doing ten acres because it all says it'll start making sense once you start planting seeds. You know?

But but there is no way to find out until you just do it. The answers come after or, you know, it's like you know, there's, like, questions and answers, and they don't come in the right order. They come after many years, and then they get put back together, and then you understand. You know, but so the goal here is is, you know, part of what we do also is that we really focus on herbs that we can produce here in the northwest that we can grow or that we can wildcraft, whether they're native or they're introduced and exotic.

And the point is that I wanna show people that, look, everything you need is around us. You know, we don't really need herbs from China, and we don't really need to buy trade herbs out of Europe. You know, these things are already here. They're producible here, and there's a locally, you know, locally, regionally available, you know, fully stocked apothecary of everything we need that we can make right here.

And, you know, and kinda what I say is it's like, if I can if I can get it here on a donkey, you know, I'll use it. But if it's further away than a donkey could haul it, then I don't really need to use that herb. Mhmm. Because I know there's something that a donkey could haul here that could do the same thing.

Right. And the more I and and the thing is is that if you if you don't look into this and you just keep using Angelica from, you know, Chinese Angelica, or whatever, then that's all you're gonna use. And we'll never we'll never discover this. But if you get into this and you start to trying to figure out what can I use here, you'll find out that we've got Angelica arguda, a native northwest, Angelica that's actually been, you know, clinically tried and chemically tested, to be similar and just as efficacious as Don Quai?

So, you know, who is gonna take it upon them to go out there, find this herb, wild craft it, produce it as a product, you know, promote it and show that, hey. Look. This is just as good and then get people to use it. So they realize, hey.

Look. I live in Oregon or I live in Washington or I'm, you know, I live in wherever I am and, you know, I can actually kind of take, you know, own this place and say, you know, I live here and I'm gonna own myself and I'm gonna own around me and not just let it, you know we can't let the the areas we live around us fall apart while we are bringing in things from other places that, you know, it's the grass is not greener on the other side. The grass on the other side is connected to the grass on your side, and it's all one yard. And so just, you know, start growing your yard, you know, and let those people grow their yard.

And so, you know, this is kinda my attempt to bring it back home and fully connect with where we live and create a contemporary ethnobotany based on what's all around us.

And if people start doing that in each part of their world, you know, every acre of herbs that we plant is one more acre that's not gonna get planted with something that's gonna get sprayed and is not gonna get destroyed by a housing development and it's not gonna do all those things. So it's it's protesting while doing something all in one because you're preventing it from being something that you wanna protest by creating something that is gonna serve the earth, instead. You know? And so I think that is really, you know, the solution.

And, you know, this is you know? And so I can grow that and then, you know, you can take these medicines and and be inspired. And it all comes back to this circle of people, plants, and place. You know?

Right. And so it's like, you know, the people have to serve their place by understanding it and respecting the plants that are there.

And through that, they'll wanna nourish those plants and there'll be more plants. And the plants will be able to be harvested to heal those people. The people will be gracious when they do, and then they'll have more gratitude for the plants, and then they'll wanna make more plants in the place. And then, you know, they'll tell their friends the stories of how the plants help them, and then their friends will wanna use the plants.

So now their friends will, you know, use the plants and they'll be healed and then they'll wanna grow a garden at their place and there'll be one more garden on the street now and then, you know, they'll tell their sister in a two states away, and then the same thing will happen. And then over many years, through this cycle of continuing to connect people with place and plants, then, you know, all the places will, you know, start getting filled up with plants, and they'll start getting filled up with people doing things that are creating what this, you know, the healing of the Earth. And I

think that the earth was fine, and maybe it was hurt by things that have been done that were unnecessary in modern societies. And so I think that, you know, what we can actually do to not just stop that, but to actually go back and heal the earth. You know? And so grilling herbs is not is not using minerals in the soil to produce crops above the soil and below the soil.

You know, the crops are expressed. They're like eyelashes on your eye of a healthy body and they come out. But you don't do that much to the crop. You're trying to make a healthy body, you know, whether it's the farm or it's the patch in the mountains.

You know, we, you know, we farm what we call sustainably and we wildcraft what we call restorative wildcrafting. So not only are we not leaving these places depleted, and not only are we not leaving them the same as they were, you know, we actually are finding that through our wild crafting techniques and through our relationship and through our interaction with these places even up in the mountains that there's more herbs because of us being there. And that the there's places where we harvest where we know that natives harvested there. You can just tell that by the way things are planted.

I mean, it's almost like a mini farm up in places that you find miles off the road through hiking through the woods and meadows at seven thousand feet. And you can tell that that there's trees that are growing in those meadows that are just about as old as when the white people came here because the natives would have cut those trees down. They wouldn't have let them grow because they wanted their meadow to stay a meadow because that's where the medicine is. And if the meadow would grow in with trees, then there's no more meadow, there's no more osha, there's no more medicine.

Right? And so, you know, there's trees exactly the age of when the settlers came, you know, and the natives stopped being able to tend their meadows and had to focus on that, like hiding from the white people or what, you know, things of this nature. And so, you know, and then we're in there harvesting and there's, you know there's weeds coming in and ferns coming in and things that are moving in, the forest is creeping in on these meadows, it's like the evil forces of industrialization creeping in on, you know, life and love and, you know, positivity in the world. It's like, but if someone could come in now and, like, you know, when we dig our OSHA, you know, we weed the ferns out and we just leave them out, and then we have a, you know, a strip of bare ground, and we take the seeds and we replant the seeds.

And, you know, we come back and we do notice that the seeds are coming up. And, you know, even last year and this year, we've been back to valerian patches where, you know, out of maybe thirty acres up in the mountains of just sheets of valerian. The whole ground is just solid valerian in every direction, just for everywhere you can see.

The places that are the best picking are the places that we picked four years ago and then replanted better than the places that have been abandoned because they're full of weeds and other things.

And the roots are not as big because they can't grow in the soil. And they've been sitting there and the roots have rot because no one's dug them up and replanted the small ones. So, you know, as a people, I'm just trying to show people, you know, getting a cup of tea from really far away is still not teaching you anything necessarily.

I don't know where right now, so it's not like I'm on some holy good grail of, you know, whatever. But, you know, I you know, because I just like what it says on the back of the little tag. You know? But, you know, but but on the other hand, you know, so, you know, we all have all levels of this going on at the same time of of our development. But the idea mentally and as a society here is to create this idea of, you know, let's really, like, focus on our place, our our own selves and where we live and then our community.

And if we keep nourishing this cycle of the people, the plants, and the place, you know, it will inevitably evolve into, you know, a healthy lifestyle for the for the people, the plants, and the place because that's, like, the only result of the lessons that are gonna be taught through those interactions, and I know that from experience.

That's awesome.

Thank you, Nom. And and so this is that's just incredible, and that's, you know, what we believe and what we're trying to, you know, get across on Herb Mentor in in learning herbs.

I got a little assignment for people because this is such an awesome interview that you can get to, like, half my questions, but, you know, it's it's it's it's it's there's so much we go. I guess that that just makes it for another interview in the future. But what I do want folks to do is is a couple of things. And one is, I'll put a link on here on Herb Mentor, to go direct to it. But, and I I want you to go check out, Nome's YouTube channel.

And if you're listening to this not on Herbenter, you can just go to YouTube and then type in, I guess, pharmacopoeia herbals, and, it has really cool, you know, really, really short videos, but it's really fun to watch the, the process of from growing to harvesting and processing, milk thistle, which is kinda cool. You can see a little bit, a little glimpse of the Pharmacopia Herbals farm in action.

The other thing is go to pharmacopia herbals dot com, as an herbal learner through those eyes, and spend some time on the site, because you can see what, you know, after listening to Noam and his story, you can go through and see Noam's process of how he's learned about all of these plants by just either wildcrafting or growing and processing and making. And every single one of those hundreds of extracts that you see there, or the formulas and everything, all come from just him getting out and doing it and making it happen. And and that's how he learned by just going and doing that. And you can also get ideas.

I mean, you see some extracts there that you don't see in a lot of other sites from, well, you have Oregon OSHA, but in Balsam, Juniper, the Elephant's Head, a lot, you know, a lot of ones you've heard of too, but you have other ones that are really off the beaten path. And that's what you get a sense from listening to Noam is he's gone off the beaten path. And that's really inspirational to to to always make sure that, you know, that there's no box around learning about plants and herbs, that you can expand your learning into the directions where your passions follow you. And, and so, you know, he's got all those, single extracts, like, the compounds, the glycerides, the oils, the the, the bulk herbs, all just check out all of that stuff and just spend some time clicking around and even have it organized all by, by symptom too, which teaches you a lot.

You know, you can just click on a symptom and then look, oh, you know, I didn't know that this herb was for that, you know, and you can it's a learning experience. I found I got really lost in farming at pharmacopierables dot com the other day, just clicking around and just learning. I learned a lot about plants. I didn't even realize that, you know, just by being on that site and how you had things listed and all.

So nice job there, Noam, on putting that together. I really appreciate that. And and so so, and you can read more about his company and their practices and vision and everything there and check out Milam's book there, like I said. And so as you can tell, like, I definitely a hundred percent endorse this site and, and the amazing medicines that that you make.

No. I mean, Pharmacopoeia Herbals, that's that's p h a r m a c o p I a, Herbals dot com. Spent some time there. And I just actually was just using the OSHA honey that I got from you the other day.

And that was awesome. And I that's that's a great one if you need some really good, got a got a deep cough going on at OSHA Honey. It works great. It's giving it to the kids and everything because we just had this cough that we just couldn't kick in the house here and that definitely helped.

So there are links, on his main site there to your you have a blog, Facebook page, YouTube channel. I added your blog to our featured blogs list on Herb Mentor. We have, like, a feed of, like, all the all the hundred percent herbal blogs that I like that are there that people can click on and get updates and click over at any time. It's like a constant feed of what I think is the best of the herbal web, as far as people who make blogs that I could have a feed to. Some people don't use a system I can't you know, use. But, but if it has a RSS feed, I can attach it.

So I definitely want you all here, I think after listening to this one, you know, it's it's really amazing because you see the story behind and what goes into a small company, and you just never think of the scope of everything that you just said was incredible. And a lot of times you see a small company, and you might walk by a booth in an herbal fair and not realize the scope that goes into each of those booths' stories and medicine making and everything. And and, Noam, you did an excellent job just bringing that across because that's exactly what what all the stuff that you said is exactly what I felt every time I walk into your booth and I hear your stories and I I was like, I want everyone to hear Noam and what he has to say and and I really appreciate the time that you took with us today.

Yeah. Thank you very much for having me, and and it's a great opportunity, to get to share, you know, really kind of from my heart why I do this because, you know, you can get lost in all these little one ounce bottles and all this stuff. And, you know, and and but the point is really, you know, I I think what I tried to express today, And, yeah, I just am grateful for the opportunity to be able to kinda get that out and express that. And, you know, I hope that when people see our products that they can remember that and feel that through them.

So Cool.

So maybe let's try to like, if you're at the at the Northwest Herbal Fair next year, we'll try to hang out, and maybe we can get a videotape of Plant Walker or a class or something and get it up on our adventure so people can see you in person.

Definitely. Or just come by the fair. If you go to Nome sites as well, a whole list there of the places he's teaching or festivals he's going to. So, Nome McBride, thank you once again, pharmacobiaherbals.com. Check it out and we'll talk to you sometime soon.

Thank you.

Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com is a production of LearningHerbs.com.

Visit LearningHerbs.com for free herbal lessons including Herb Mentor news, home remedy secrets, and supermarket herbalism. You'll also find the herbal medicine making kit and our board game Wildcraft.

Thanks so much for listening.

Nome McBride: Life & Times of an Herb Farmer and Xtreme Wildcrafter

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