J.T.: Community Herbalism & Urban Wildcrafting

Episode #18 March 24, 2016

J.T. is a Seattle-based herbalist and mom. She’s an old friend of mine who started the same herbal apprenticeship that I did in 1998 before my son Rowan was born.

Since she started learning about local plants and how to use them, J.T. has come up with creative ways of gathering herbs and using them to nourish her family. Like myself, J.T. is a family and community-centered herbalist. Not only does she keep her family healthy and help them when they are sick, she also shares her knowledge of herbalism with others in her community. This has led to her teaching classes at local herb shops.

I join J.T. in this interview live at the Northwest Herbal Fair. J.T. had just finished teaching a class on tincture making. This fair was very special since LearningHerbs sponsored it, J.T. was teaching, and our mentor Eaglesong was even teaching there and was honored at the event as a local herbal elder. We all had come a long way since our journeys began together nearly 13 years ago.

There is often talk on the HerbMentor forum on “what herbal school have you gone too?” or lots of detailed discussions on some pretty complicated stuff. Though we need to have these discussions, I wonder sometimes if it’s intimidating to folks who just want to being natural medicines to their lives in a simple and fun way. It’s always challenging on HerbMentor to strike a balance between simplicity and those who want advanced knowledge.

J.T. is the archetype of the family herbalist who kept it simple. I wanted you to see the natural progression of starting out to helping others, which can often lead to opportunities to teach others. There is power in simplicity, and I hope you all get something out of this “home herbalist profile” if you will.

She also shares some of her secrets in urban wildcrafting and other cool tips. She’s figured out quite a bit like someone who has ever stopped harvesting herbs and making remedies.

It’s a change from our usual interviews, but y’all know I like to change it up every so often. Seriously, if you have ever felt overwhelmed at the prospect of learning about herbs, please listen to this interview.

If you live in Seattle, you might catch a class with J.T. at Dandelion Botanical. She also has trained and works with EarthWalk Northwest with Karen Sherwood.

Episode Transcript

From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.

You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com. I'm John Gallagher. Today, I am live on the set. I think this is probably the second time I've actually done a live interview.

I'm at the Northwest Herbal Fair in Mount Vernon, Washington. And the Northwest Herbal Fair is what really began, my official learning process and was the place where I first had the idea for the herbal medicine making kit. Even before I took class, I was looking for a kit that could just give me all I needed to put, you know, what I needed to make, my own remedies. So, going back to the roots here, I have with me Seattle based herbalist, J.T.

Hi, J.T.

Hi, John.

J.T. is a mom to two awesome homeschool kids. She studies with Karen Sherwood and has studied with EagleSong and Sally King at RavenCroft Garden, who are also my mentors. In fact, J.T. and I were in the very same apprenticeship program at RavenCroft back in ninety nine.

Ninety nine. Gosh.

That was the fourth.

We partied so some time now on our mentor radio.

So welcome.

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

And it's like I said, I just gotta say again, it's just really wild for me to we're we're over we're looking over this beautiful lake. We had a phenomenal sunny day here. All kinds of great workshops. JT taught a class in tincture making. And for me, it's like, wow, I'm back to where this all really started for me. And that's what's really great about here. So this is the perfect place to be interviewing you.

Yes.

So thank you.

So because the thing is, I always kinda think of you as that, quintessential role model that I wish that all our mentor members could be done. Like, you know, I know it's a lot of pressure there.

Yeah. Just a little.

Just a little bit. But but so I wanna explore that and, and you know, how you go about doing things. So but it's all pretty pretty simple. Right? So what I like to do first is just like start with your beginnings as an herbalist. How did you get into it? How did what sparked your interest?

Right. Well, I think I've had, even as a child, kind of a headspace, kind of book idea that an herbalist sounded like an interesting person to be, but I didn't really pursue it. I would say what really kick started my true herbal calling was becoming a mother.

Because you have those what I call three AM moments you know where your child is running a fever, it's not a horribly high fever but you're not sure, Should I go to the emergency room? Should I dose with Tylenol? I and I felt like there had to be there had to be some place in between sitting there and doing nothing Mhmm. And taking them to the emergency room, and I thought that that place probably lay with herbs, and I wanted to get some practical experience.

Did you have background in your family? Was there anyone like grandparents or parents? Because you're you're you're half Chinese Yes. Descent and half European.

That's right.

That's very diverse traditions.

It it it is. I didn't on my my mother's side as the European side, and there was nothing that I, really was transmitted there. On my father's side, there we had always Chinese patent medicines around. Mhmm.

So I knew that there were these sort of exotic, you know, loquat and po chai pills, so that there was an alternative to say prescription drugs. Mhmm. And I do remember being very young and there was always this funny jar, a glass mayonnaise jar in the cupboard. It was the weirdest thing and it had these gnarly roots in it and this weird kind of yellowish liquid and, it was basically a bruise medicine.

So anytime I have four younger brothers. You can imagine a lot of rough housing. A lot of banged heads and shins and all that. And so, oh, oh, somebody got a bruise.

Go run get the Chinese medicine.

Right.

So we would you know, pour that stuff up.

The Chinese medicine. Oh, that's fine.

And I'll tell you, John, I've spent years searching, talking to my dad, trying to figure out what was in that Chinese medicine.

And I He had no idea.

He had no idea because he got it from just friends who have moved away. And so I'm still not sure, but I think when I look back on it, that may have planted the seed of, hey, I could I could make a medicine and store it in a jar in my cupboard.

Something you could pick out of the garden. Exactly.

You dig. Yep.

So then, basically, you had this interest and, you know, this is actually I'm going to share as a parent as well. You had your son, Nick, who is now fourteen?

Fifteen. Fifteen. Oh my gosh. I know.

I keep getting that wrong too because I want him to be younger.

Yes. I know.

Because it means I'm getting older.

But he was already a few years old at least when yeah. A few years old when when Rowan was born. But we met at that same time and that was the exact same thing that prompted me to come even to this because, I remember, thinking to Kimberly, well, we wanna have kids someday, you know?

Yeah.

Like, how do I take care of them, you know? Absolutely. I knew I didn't wanna take and rely on Western medicine, but, I didn't know what to do.

So I was, you know, frantically looking for an answer.

So how did you find did you just like look see an ad someone recommend Ravencroft? Is that for the first place you started? Or did you read get some books?

Or I I would say because, you know, books are all well and good, but to me, you know, I'm very much about practical herbalism, so it was Ravencroft that was the the true beginning. And I think it was that Eaglesong offered a class in, like winter medicines, you know, preventing colds and flus and such at Dandelion Botanical.

Yeah.

And so I went to that and here was this I'm laughing because you'll hear that JT is now teaching it there.

Oh, yeah. I am. A little plug for dinner.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead. Great. Yeah. So yeah.

Eaglesong did a class there and I thought she was great and I saw the apprenticeship option and thought, okay, I'm gonna do it.

Keep the plunge. For me, I from this conference, I met Erin Grow and she was running us like a short three month program and I went and did that. Then after that, there was a hole which was I wanna keep learning and I need an ongoing community.

Right.

And then all of a sudden, healing from the ground up, which was the name of our program opened up and then then then we met then. So so it sound like we've got the same timing.

Yes. And for similar reasons. I hadn't realized that that was what propelled you as well.

Yeah. Because nobody, I didn't have the instruction manual. I kept looking for it.

Where is that?

Is that supposed to come out after the placenta, but no.

I shouldn't send. Sorry. Come on.

No, but the instruction manual didn't come out. So but, sorry.

Anyway, so with Ravencroft, what did you find and and folks, of course, Ravencroft, that program isn't really around anymore, so it's not like we're sitting here plugging Ravencroft or something.

But we're just talking about herbal training in general and a kind of herbal training or what to look out for in herbal training. So what what did you learn in that? Like, what was that experience for you?

Well, that experience was the actual physicality of herbalism because I remember, I think on our first day we were sitting there and there was a bunch of, I don't know, you know, Hawthorne or something that had been drying and that we needed to sit down and work with. And I felt kind of intimidated, honestly.

But, you know, every time that we would meet there would be something interesting. Something that you're living in living room.

We we would do, pick hawthorn Yes.

Yep. Off strip it off of the the thorny and or Saint Saint John's work. Yeah.

We'd be Yep.

Or garbling nettles. Nettles. Yep.

Every time we would meet, that's right. There'd be a blanket and a big pile of herbs.

A dried herb, which was great for Eaglesong and Sally because they They did their work. People to prepare their herbs.

But it was such such an amazing experience for me to just, you know, physically handle the herbs, be with people who, had worked with herbs for a long time that I did ask questions.

Crazy.

Yeah. And didn't think I was crazy. Yeah. It helped a lot.

Yeah. That that was fantastic.

I feel like there is something else other than actually touching the herbs. No.

Well, you know, for me being there too, every time you showed up, there was the garden there. And every time, every month we were there, there was new things happening.

Mhmm.

And we are always encouraged to go walk around, see what we noticed, see what we can identify. Yes.

There were animals there and goats and all. And and I remember, you know, doing a work trade. These and I'm mentioning all these for folks because you may have some great ideas about you how you might wanna teach our apprentice someday because our whole goal here, our little secret sinister plan here on the Herd Mentor is that you're out there someday teaching and being an apprentice, teacher.

So, and I just remember, and and, you know, and not only another thing cool today is Yil Song, who we're talking about is here teaching this weekend as well.

Wonderful.

And, and I ran into her and, and how we would, I would get so many lessons at the compost pile. I'd be shoveling manure and she'd always have these great pearls of wisdom to espouse on me as I was shoveling manure.

Yes. Yes. During my life.

Yep.

We're we're in the medicine making show. Like, they were selling a lot of products, so we'd be processing things, like weighing bags of infusion herbs or labeling salves or and every time we're labeling salves, we're what are we doing?

We're we're reading ingredients and we're looking at the Yosam's recipe cards and, like, you know, being in it and immersing.

Absolutely.

In a working And I I love that she, you know, so we would dig things from the garden.

I remember we did black cohosh one time and, you know, it's it's so different to look at a little tincture bottle of black cohosh in the PCC and read about it in the book and then when you're actually digging that black cohosh and seeing that amazing root system and bringing it out, and I remember that we washed it for a really long time with that pressure hose, and we're all so proud. We showed it to Eco Song, and she just said, well, it's it's not herbalist quality.

We're like, oh, okay. Go back and do it again. But, but, you know, doing that was was really wonderful, even though it was hard work. I remember, shortly after finishing the apprenticeship, I was digging in my yard and there's lots of California poppy there, which I did not plant. I remember that. Do you remember?

That you made.

I brought it in because I was digging. I'm like, I'm getting rid of this California poppy, and I struck, and I brought up this root, and it was glistening and succulent. And I'm looking at it and thinking, wow, I I wish I could do something with this. Oh, wait a minute.

I can do something with it. And I looked it up and I found, okay, this is safe. Chop chop chop. Made a tincture.

So that, you know, that was just some of the most valuable knowledge I got out of Ravencroft is, yes, you you can do this.

Yeah. And and and and really the simplicity. And and that's what I really like. I remember them purposely saying, like, well, you know, and and you have to mind you that that that Eaglesong is a, you know, world class work culturalist.

I mean, she Yeah. She she she runs the the grounds at the Willow's Lodge, which is one of the most like a five star prestigious Yes. Art houses. But when you go to their when it went to their place, they kept it simple for the students.

Yeah.

Like that is simple greenhouse so we could see that it really is easy. Mhmm. Like this is how you pot, this is how you do this, this is how you transplant, and and you really got it.

Absolutely. And that's when I'm teaching, I was actually just teaching in this very area a few hours earlier. I brought some various tincture bottles to show people. You can have the really pretty label that you take the time on the computer and all that, or here's the tincture I made that has a piece of masking tape on it.

It says, California, Bobby, and the date. And that's okay. Keep it simple. Do do what works for you.

But label.

The label. Exactly. That is one thing. That's not optional. You have to label.

You have several bottles of brown lekweig.

Yes.

That was that's that's a lot of good memories there, but there's not just about going down memory lane. It's really just analyzing, like, what was it in this that, and I think it really does come back to the simplicity.

And I think that's what struck me, immediately about you is that you took that simplicity into your home to nourish your family. Like, there'd always be, hey, I'm gonna make soup. Why not make some oat straw infusion or burdock infusion and throw it in the soup?

Right.

I'm gonna make this syrup or I'm gonna make this, you know, you're you're always up to something. And and and and and the thing is too, I wanna talk about too, is this like, maybe you could talk about that. I'd like you to talk about that, but also in relationship to, there is a tendency, and and I'm I think sometimes we're guilty of it on our mentor and and it's not intentional, but my draw is my my thing is always to keep it super simple. But then there's folks who who have it really wanna, like, dig in and be chemist and make it complicated. Sure. And that's cool.

Right.

But I just wanna, like, to me, always where it's at is always been in the simplicity. So Yes. How does that work for you? Yeah. Absolutely. And by the way, if you hear music in the background as we're talking, we're at a fast Fair. Enjoy the music.

We're being serenaded. So actually, when I started teaching today, there was somebody playing ukulele right by nearby.

So that's kinda fun.

Yeah. So you're absolutely right that I do, try to keep it simple. You know, if you are a parent or even if you're not a parent, most of us have busy lives. Yeah.

Most of us don't have that time to go in deep into like the chemistry of it and Mhmm.

Exactly.

Right. So I really want to use herbs in a way that makes it that I can weave them easily into, my family's diet, basically.

It should be something organic. I feel strongly that everybody should know how to make their own medicine. I mean that's why I teach the making your own medicine series. Is that I think that that's knowledge just like we all should know how to cook, and identify a few basic herbs. We should be able to to make healing happen within our family.

So I do, like you said, I will put extra things in the soup.

I do make infusions because they're pretty easy to make.

And these are the nourishing herbal infusions like we teach on HerbMentor.

Exactly. There's information on HerbMentor about that.

And I rotate different ones, and I always Give us some details. Let's do it.

Do you see details?

Do you see details? Like, people wanna know. Can you paint a picture of JT's kitchen?

Oh, my gosh. I don't know who would want to paint that picture, but JT's kitchen. Good to know. Okay. So JT's kitchen, the first thing that may draw your eye is all the jars that are sitting on the counter.

And there are jars with tinctures in them, maybe tinctures of western red cedar and motherwort.

There are oils of comfrey and touch and heal or St. John's wort as it's often called.

There are, let's see, fomentations and there are ginger bugs Mhmm.

For making soda pop.

And then in the living room, or actually in the dining room, there's a drying rack.

Mhmm.

So I have trays with herbs that are drying on them.

I think there's some Where most people's TVs would be.

I I guess so. It's very fascinating to sit and watch the herbs dry. Almost as fun as watching paint dry. Right.

Yeah. So there's a there's a lot going on there. And so the kids are used to seeing herbs all around the house too.

And these are and and and Robin and Nick are are homeschooled, and they're very dynamically, but I mean, it's it's it's, you know, it's a very kinetic dynamic homeschooling. It's a thing you do.

They're always very creative and it's always kind of stuff. I'm always impressed by what you're, doing with them.

So how about an example like, of that like and what what kind what would you do with an infusion that we throw in something? I mean, I know this seems really basic to you, but this is this is like for some folks completely like a revelation.

Yeah. Absolutely. And that's where I was before I started at Ravencroft. Right. I just I I I had such a desire but I didn't know where to start.

So yeah. So so in the morning I will take maybe my nettle infusion that I've prepared with that little stick of seaweed in there, and I'll strain it, and then I I like it hot so I serve it hot to my kids. It's like their their morning coffee or pick me up Nice. Whatever.

Yeah.

If I am making a lunch for example, just before leaving for the earth fair. We had a quickie lunch of bagels and cream cheese and lox, and I sprinkled on the cream cheese some powdered bull kelp, bull whip kelp Mhmm. Nereocystis that was mixed with sesame seeds.

Mhmm.

So they had, you know, some herbs in there. For dinner I might have a hearty stew that I've thrown some dandelion and burdock, dry dandelion and burdock bread in.

So So you find that, well, you know, your family is, cool, but then they know everything you're doing and throwing that all Right.

There.

And finally, you have to sneak it in with the kid.

I mean, Mike's Mike's Mike's a, you know, he's he's a good sport.

He's he's he's a mellow man. Thank goodness for Mike.

So for the most part they are fine with it. They think it's you know, you know your mom's an herbalist that's kind of kind of weird or whatever, but they you know the the one infusion they are not really fond of is the nettle, You know, but there's not there for I know.

They love the oat straw, the linden, the violet, the red clover, Hawthorn's a big favorite, but yeah the Netherlands is a little bit hard. Dandelion too is a little bit hard, And but you know for the most part they're really fine with it and they do help me gather as well. You know I'll say that Nick does it I think out of a sense of duty because he knows this is helpful for me. Right.

Right. But you know Robin really loves it and either way, you know, I'm just glad that should they ever choose to make their own medicine for their family and their community Right. They know it's possible. They know how to do it.

So it's not in in you know vital to me that you have be an herbalist, you have to do this, but should you choose to, you can.

It's kind of like giving your kids some early music lessons.

If they drop it at some point, you know that if they should, they pick it up, it'll be using the word.

Right. They can read music or whatever. It's it's a tool. It's just one of those tools that I think is important like learning to swim. You should know how to do that.

Do you if your infusions mix or do you use simple? I Simple meaning one at a or or I'm asking like one at a time because I know this is something that a lot of people always ask because we'll say try one at a time and soon and they hear Susan Weed on some of our classes going one at a time. But the reality is lots of folks are like, yeah, I mix them.

Right.

So Well, so so I am a simpler.

I'm a simple person.

And so I prefer them simple, but there are some that are really nice in combination. For example, I really like to make dandelion and burdock together. I think they work very synergistically.

Mhmm.

So that's a compound. But, yeah, for the most part, it's simples. Unless you can't stick in the seaweed in. Right. Which I don't. Right. Right.

Right. Exactly.

Because that's because it's from the sea.

Yeah. Which by the way, you also gather your own.

I do gather my own.

That you've given me some of your wonderfully harvested thing. So speaking of gathering, okay. You live in Seattle.

I do.

And Seattle is a if anyone's hasn't been there, it's a really cool urban garden area, beautiful flowers, pea patches, for people, you know, lots of people with, like, little yards to do garden space.

Yes.

And yet you have told said to me that, you know, I really don't prefer gardening. I'm more of a wildcrafter.

It's true.

But yet yet you are a wildcrafter in a city.

I am. I'm an urban forager.

Tell us about the life of the urban forager.

Oh, it's wonderful.

This is so I know y'all are out there. You're this is captivating snow. I mean, this is like, you know, because there's a lot of people in New York City where there's people in wherever and they're I mean, they don't even think that they could gather things.

Right. Right. And that's that, you know, John, the tradition that we were trained in, it is really about local. Right?

It's not about going to Tibet for the most you know rare herb. It's about opening your front door and seeing what's outside right here. Oh, dandelion. Maybe that's helpful for me.

So I live in a city, and so my local is the city.

I am fortunate to live in Seattle I think because like you said there's a lot of pea patches, there's a lot of parks, there's a lot of people who keep nice yards or people who keep overgrown yards with lots of dandelion and chickweed. So what I find when I'm doing urban foraging is that it is much more of a social experience than when I'm foraging in the mountains because I do also forage in remote places. Right.

But when I'm out there gathering crab apples, you know, from the trees in front of my house, just put up the crab apple jelly a few days ago.

It's awesome.

That that's a real opportunity. People stop and say, what are you doing? You know, I didn't know you could eat those. I actually had an interaction.

There was a little boy who was very unhappy, in an unhappy situation, lived a few houses down from us. He used to pick all our tulips, all our heads off. He used to break branches and yeah. It was, you know, he was acting out.

Right? He saw me gathering the crab apples one time and said, what? What are you doing that for? And I said, well, I'll make jelly.

You can make jelly? Well, I made some. I gave him a jar.

Sometime later, I saw him in the neighborhood. Some little kids were kinda trying to break the branches on the tree, and I heard him say, stop. Don't do that. It's the jelly tree.

Oh, wow.

So, yeah. I was like, okay. Wow. So it's it's about when you gather in a place where there's lots of people who can see what you're doing, your opportunities for teaching about plants, for healing with plants, are just that much more.

And that's the opposite of what you make people might think.

They might be thinking, I gotta sneak this because I don't want anybody thinking about picking this, but they might wanna be private about it. But when you're I've had a lot of great experiences just people coming up in the every the a year doesn't go by when I'm picking nettle off of this bike trail Yes.

Exactly.

That somebody doesn't stop their bike and ask what I'm doing back there.

Yep. Yep.

And then I'm like, hey, what what are you picking? You know? And I'm like, oh, it's Nettle. What are you gonna do?

We're gonna make soup. And so we I I said, would you would you like to take some of this? I'll wrap it in this little bag for you. You can take it home.

Throw it in your soup tonight.

Yeah. And some people are like, great. And some people are, are are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, we kinda happen to live in an area with people a little more open to these things. It's true. People do think we're crazy.

But it's but but it's too I mean, now if you're urban foraging crab apples, that's one thing. But you seem to know the spots. Like, you you map them out. Right?

I do. I do.

I do have your own secret spots. I mean, earth's no known places you don't wanna tell people.

That's right.

And in a in a, you know, that you meet because they're far probably, you know, special far but, you found, I mean, a good amount of your gathering places in the city.

Yes. It is. And, you know, again, in that social context, it's getting to know your neighbors. Right? And getting to to know your environment. I can go and ask my neighbor, do you spray those roses?

Yeah.

Find out that they don't and then may I gather some and then yeah.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And maybe nettles at some are you able, okay. Like, are there times when you have to get permission from, like, a park or something? Or, like, what have those city parks work?

Here's the thing Yeah. About Seattle city parks. So I have to tell my students that it is technically illegal under the Seattle municipal code.

Right.

Now I've I don't wanna speak for the city of Seattle. I I doubt if they have major objections to people weeding the nettles Right. Out, you know, from Discovery Park or whatever.

But I was actually interviewed a few months ago by somebody who's doing a study specifically on urban forging, I think in Seattle, New York, and Philadelphia.

Mhmm.

And they said, as an urban forager, please tell us what is one thing we could do to make your life easier. Woah. And I said well thank you for asking.

Don't spray anything.

Don't spray anything and I said actually the number one thing is make it legal because right now there's all this bounty that is in our parks that I I can't tell my students to to gather because that would be illegal and I it's very important to me that you know you have permission to gather. So yeah that's the situation in Seattle.

I also understand that in New York City they are actually starting to enforce the no no gathering Oh, really?

In Central Park.

So wild man Steve Brill is gonna have a tough time.

He got arrested that one time. Time.

That's when he got famous. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. That's how he got famous because he was the guy who got arrested for picking dandelions in Central Park. He tells a story. There's an interview at Herbenture folks. You can listen to that interview I did with my old man a long time ago to talk about the story. Yeah.

I'm gonna pass some water over here at JT to get a little car.

I know. I know.

It's just the cool thing about a live video. See, I can pass you water if you're doing this over the phone.

So, you could yes. You could that's a great interview and also we talked about Edel Song, our mentor and we also interviewed her too.

So great and and of course, goes without saying that you're following all the other rules of wildcraft and making sure that you're in a safe place, no pesticides.

Absolutely. Pick clean. Yes.

Yeah. Exactly.

Not right by the side of the road or, you know, the suburbs.

Because you live like four blocks from I ninety.

It's true. I live right by I ninety, and I'll tell you those freeway on ramps has the Saint John's Ward. I know. It's tempting, isn't it? Oh, but no. Please don't gather this.

Right. So you have to go for your Saint John's Wort elsewhere. Yes.

And not on the railroad tracks either.

And that is interesting thing. I just mentioned about Saint John's or elsewhere. That leads me to think about, how you've gotten involved with some other schools in the area.

You're doing some work with Earthwalk Northwest, Karen Sherwood, and She.

Another Permantra radio you can listen to.

Gee, I'm seeing a pattern here. John interviews the people he knows.

Boy.

Yeah. But, and so you have then, you know, sought out mentors in your area, people that could teach you some things and where there are places that are safe for you to gather.

Yes.

So you know now if it's Saint John's Wort or if there's some edible or cattails that you may have learned a lot about from Karen, you'll get a sense of those places and where to go. Yes. Right.

Absolutely. And that's what I just think that nothing substitutes for that apprenticing.

You you cannot get it from a book.

I mean, you can get part of it from a book.

Yeah. It will, you know, it's something we struggle with because we're really lucky that we live in the northwest or or in a place or any anywhere in the state of Oregon.

There's like I think there's like a hundred herbalist per per, person who does isn't Right.

Right.

It's an amazing state, in Oregon anyway.

But there's a lot in Washington. And and and it seems like there's, well, more and more there's people. But what I'm trying to encourage people is because there's a lot of people without that, without someone that they Right. Learn from in the country. We just, Herb Mentor, while it also works as a subs, you know, a surrogate for people who do have people, it also works for people who don't have anyone around them. So it is Yes. Kind of the next best thing.

Oh, yeah.

But still, like, it's you're it's just like we're around you though. Yeah. And I think some of y'all are gonna have to work a little harder to find some of those special gathering places and to do your research and to use online communities whether urban or elsewhere to to know for sure. And then it's gonna kinda be up to you to pass the knowledge on.

Yes. Absolutely. And you will be that person who can be the link. And Herb Mentor is great. I don't put Herb Mentor in the same category as a book because it really is interactive. You have that online community and, you have the video, which is great. Like you're, you know.

But still, like, right. Like having someone but then again, you you you learned what you learned, and you were able to go out on your own with the knowledge you had in your area without someone showing you and to find all the places in Seattle where you were together.

Right.

So you you were able to do that.

Yeah. Well, I always say I kind of homeschooled some of it. Right?

Right. Right. Right. Right.

Right. But it's yeah. It's great it's great to have the variety of sources that we have now. You know, from Herb Mentor, two books, to that one on one. You wanna be one on one with a with a old herbalist.

So let's recap here. You're inspired to learn. You found a way to learn, a place to learn.

Yes.

Started doing it.

Yep. Just do it.

And when you wanted to learn some more stuff, you know, you got various books, you're signed up for different classes and classes and things. And then, you know, here we are at a place where you're teaching Yes. But in between that maybe decade or a little less Mhmm.

Or whatever, there was just you doing it.

Yes.

And that's all it really took. So it's a pretty simple formula. You're interested, you learn, you do it.

Yes. Exactly.

And you didn't go to a, you know, an herbal school that gives you a letters after your name or something. You did you didn't, meaning, you know, you didn't get a certificate that I'm a professional herbalist. You didn't take an advanced course with these anatomy and physiology classes and understanding all the intricate chemistries and the energetics and the constituents.

Right.

You know, you you but yet, you are an herbalist and you keep this in your family's life. You keep yourself and your family healthy and nourished with this knowledge pure and simple Yes. Without it having to be too complicated.

Yes. And my community as well as as my family. And you're exactly right. I mean, I think all that, you know, chemistry and etcetera, it's really groovy. It's great, but you don't have to have it to be a fine herbalist.

It should be something that that everybody does.

When then did you just say, hey, I'm calming myself an herbalist.

Oh, it took me a long time, John. A really long time. And it was actually at, at Eaglesong where or in Sally, they invited me to, you know, become a community centered herbalist, and I really had to sit with that for a long time. I was very honored, but I thought, am I really an herbalist? Several years after you were.

I mean, you you had you had, and if you don't mind me just in years after you were. I mean, you you had you had, and if you don't mind me just Oh, it's fine.

You had a, you you had JT had to lead the program in the second year because there's a difficult pregnancy with Robin. Yep. Had to stop it short.

Yep.

And but the thing is, you had that one year behind you, but your passion, kept you going and you just kept doing it on your own and doing it and doing it Exactly. To the point where they said, you know, we're gonna graduate you anyway.

Exactly.

You're one of the few people that actually kept doing this all of us.

I I I think I think that is what happened.

But yeah, and like I said, I was just I was thrilled, but I thought I do not know if I can accept this because I don't know if I can call myself an herbalist. I mean, I I don't I don't charge people. I don't have a practice, you know. I don't diagnose them and then, you know, prescribe this tincture or whatever. So am I really an herbalist? And I said a long time with those three words community.

Mhmm.

I was like, well, gee, I guess I, you know, I do teach other people and I share the herbs and the knowledge.

So okay, community works and centered. Okay, I'm centered in my local place. And then herbalist, that was the hardest one. And I said, well, what what is an herbalist?

Okay. An herbalist is somebody who works with herbs, who knows them, loves them, and weaves them into their life.

I guess I'm an herbalist.

Right. That's that's also my definition.

Oh, good.

That's why I'm really glad you're here with me today because I I just, like for me, it's always the simplicity and that level of it that gets me excited about what I do.

Yeah.

And it's about that for me. And, because personally, I mean, you know, Rosalie can be on her mentor doing learning more.

That's her passion to learn more and more complicated things and help you know.

And it's great that she's able to take some of these concepts and find new ways of talking about them and bringing it to us and we can all understand. I really appreciate. But me personally, like, I just like my personal exploration, if I have any time, it's like I just wanna go out and pick something Yes. If I can make some lasagna.

Exactly.

Or or or or, you know, pick the dandelion so I can make this or Mhmm.

You know, and I I find myself more in that place more and more and less. And I gotta figure out what every constituent. But but that's my choice and where I am at with it.

Yes. Yes.

You know, and that's the thing. There's a there's coming to a level of comfort in yourself as to what's cool for you and what you wanna do. And not always feel like there's you're inadequate at whatever you're doing because you think you have this perception that there's something bigger that you're supposed to be doing. And you just run around circles if you do that.

Yes. And because the thing is, this is all nature. You can never know it all. Right.

So so to live with it.

And and that's the thing that, you know, you start okay. Well, what is the active ingredient in this? And then you start losing sight of the whole plan. And you I I call it the illusion of precision.

Mhmm.

You know, it's like, oh, well, but this tincture is made scientifically, so it's standardized. What does that really mean? I mean, what if that this plant was grown in a different soil and picked at a different time? I you know, that you you don't have to know every little tiny constituent or vitamin or mineral in it to learn from the wisdom of people who have used these plants for a long time.

People always wanna know that. They're always like, what's this ratio thing? And this always comes up in our form.

And Rosalie and I are just like, we just stick things in jars and cover it with us.

Exactly.

You know, it seems to work really well.

Yep. Yep.

You know, and I remember Eagle saw one time like she was doing this tried showing us demonstrating the ratio thing. Oh. But the point was she couldn't figure it out because the ratios were She goes, this is not conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom tells me to cover it with alcohol.

Yes.

You cover it up and pour something on top of it. And and if you don't keep it topped, then it will oxidize. And that's Right.

As simple as it can be.

Yep. Yeah. So anyway, I'm sorry. It's a little bit of a tangent.

Oh, no. That's great.

It's it's just something that's, you know, it's yeah.

So, so here we are at this, event here and you are, you know, you're teaching.

And, so how did that come about for you that you found yourself? Because this wasn't the first place. You've been teaching some classes at Daneline Botanical.

And before that, there was a, some place else in Seattle that Yeah.

I've also taught at Village Green Village Green. Perennial nursery.

Exactly. Center. And so how did that someone just ask you, like, well, like, how did that happen?

Like That you know, I ask myself that question too.

How did it happen? You know what really kicked it off? Remember when the, so I I had been teaching on my own. Just people would say, oh, that, you know, that St.

John's wort sunscreen. That's fantastic. Will will you show me how to make that? Oh sure, come on over.

So I just teach, you know, one on one or a couple people. I'll show I'll show you how to do this. Then a couple years ago was that, swine flu came around. Mhmm.

And people were freaking out Mhmm.

On the homeschool group. What do we do? Sure. This and that.

Mind you, you are in Seattle for your folks.

Yes. Exactly. So we, and then people were, buying tinctures and such and so. And I thought, wow, it's so easy for people to just make their own elderberry syrup.

It's just so simple And cheap.

And cheap. And, you know, instead of buying that twenty dollar bottle, that little one in the store. And I finally said, well, you know, there's all these great things you can do, and they're wonderful. Let me offer, if anybody would like to come and learn how to make elderberry syrup, this is a great antiviral blah blah blah. So so I had that class.

Afterwards, I got emails from a number of students saying, would you please continue this? Could we learn how to make salves?

Could we learn how to make tinctures?

And I said, okay.

So I started teaching that. So I had this little quarterly group of parents who were learning for their families.

And then it turned into, well, we'd really like you to teach, you know, outside of your home. And I got a request from Vera at Village Green. She's a homeschool mom as well. Mhmm. So I started teaching there.

And then Kaachi had been asking me for a few years to teach, and I felt after the quarterly students that I had enough experience under my belt to do that.

So it just kept building and building and building. Alright. So basically, then to recap with that, that you just started showing your friends stuff in the kitchen and then that just kinda seemed to take off more and more and more people asking you. Exactly. And then and then it only was a matter of time before somebody who who wanted herbal classes somewhere found out you were doing that and then you got a phone call.

Yeah. Exactly. I got a Facebook friend request lab classes. Like, wow. So, yeah, the word gets out there. I think people are really hungry for this kind of information.

So Yeah.

They are.

Exciting to be teaching at this time.

And then, Dandelion Botanical, one of the main herbal, like, two or three herbal places that are in Seattle Right.

Calls you up and says, continue classes.

So you're gonna do it.

And this is the very place where KP Colson does some classes and other people do some classes.

And the very place I realize now where I first saw Eagle song. Right. So how perfect is that? And the film is around me. Yes.

And then Northwest Herbal Fair.

Yes.

And here you are here. So you just never know. And and and and, and and my point in all that is that let's once again, I keep recapping a lot, but you're interested in nerves. Yeah. You look for someone to learn from. You just start doing it.

Right.

Someone asks you to, what are you doing? And you share some of your knowledge. And then someone calls and says, hey, would you teach some teach a class? Yep. I mean, this is not like some sort of certification program rigor more or Right. Sending out resumes trying to promote yourself. This is completely natural and organic process that happens when you choose to really wanna learn about this, and you just go for it without expectations, without what it's just you have this natural course that happens.

I and I tried not to teach. I actually thought that. No. I I don't know how to do that.

But, you know, it's That's right.

I think I remember that. And I was like, no. Do it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, John, come on. Right?

I remember that you were teaching REI. I'm like, wow, John. You're teaching REI. And I was like, oh, you could do this.

Really?

Turns out you can do it.

Same thing happened with me. Yeah. Exactly.

So, yeah. I I found that, there was actually a certain point where I was afraid to teach because I thought, who am I? You know, I don't like you said, I don't have the string of letters after my name. Mhmm. I don't know every, you know, chemical constituent.

Who should I be to teach?

But then it got to a point where I felt like I am not going to be able to learn anymore Mhmm.

Until I teach.

Exactly.

It's like you there's a certain point point of knowledge you get to where you hit a wall.

I don't know if you found this to be true.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

But then it's like, okay. I I have to teach for that reason, for my own selfish reason to want to learn more. Right.

And also, because I don't want to say it's required of us, but it feels very important to me Right.

To share this knowledge.

Right.

Like you don't, why are you learning it just keeping it bottled up for yourself? Everybody should learn how to make medicine.

Exactly. And so here, I'm looking up on the schedule board here at this herbal fair. It has like a schedule board. And your classes are how to make tinctures.

Yes.

How to make syrups.

Mhmm. Infusions.

Infusions, decoctions. Now folks, does this sound like something that you already know how to do that you could probably teach someone else even if it's your sister or brother or neighbor? Mhmm. I mean even Kimberly has her the some of the kids friends come over from time to time and she does little, you know, let's go out in the garden and pick some stuff Right. And make something and she loves doing that. You don't have to go you don't have to go teach at the herbal fair, but I mean just at least to that level of sharing with people.

Exactly. It's sharing. It's about sharing the gifts of the herbs. Right. Absolutely.

I mean, it's so easy to do. Mhmm. And that's the thing. Yeah. And and that and so when I looked at that board and saw the other classes, and there's some really out there stuff.

There's some esoteric ones. Yeah. Wow. What is that?

And I'm looking at the ones, what would I not just what I would I would take now, but when I was first at the herbal fair, to wrap it back around, what would I have wanted to take?

What are the classes like? If it was me back in nineteen ninety eight at this fair, the very first time, I would look at that board and I would be at all of your classes.

Oh, really? Oh, that's great.

Because those is what would be interesting to me that that's what I would need that would be needed.

That's sort of hands on.

So it's great what a lot of folks are teaching here, but from to me, what is needed more than anything is just the basic core classes Yes. To keep it simple. And like Susan Weed, even to I mean, as many books as she has out and as many places she teaches every day she's out. She her message is always the same. Nourish, keep it simple, pass it on.

Yes. The fundamentals.

The fundamentals. And that's just yeah. That's really what it seems to keep coming down. So what is your favorite remedy that you make?

Oh, boy.

My favorite remedy. That is a really hard one.

My favorite remedy.

I guess I really love the cottonwood salve.

Mhmm.

There's something about the smell of that and I love that it has multiple actions.

Mhmm.

You know, I can use it, on a cut or it's one of the few salves that you can use really well on a bruise Mhmm. You know, or for deep muscle pain. Just something magic about the smell of it to me.

That I I like without cotton with that. I can make the oil, combine it with some wax or some sap, and that's it.

Yes.

I don't need to add a essential oil.

I don't have to add anything else.

That's right.

No other no other herbs.

It's just plain and simple like I've actually found over the years that I stopped using essential oils in my salves.

Like I I tend to use like cottonwood Right. Or, I love rosemary oil as a base. It just has that nice strong smell.

Saint John's wort oil too has that sort of This has it has its own lovely smell.

You don't even need anything with that one. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

And then you can actually tell quicker if your salve's gone rancid because it's not being masked by the essential oils.

Oh, right. Of course. Yeah. So Yeah. That was that was and and yeah. For, like, to me and and I think Erin Grow, my first mentor that I met at this fair, what struck me the first time she takes us around our garden and, you know, we're just she's rattling things off.

We're writing it down. Right. She's like, yeah, but I pretty much only use like three or three or four plants in pretty much everything I do.

Well that was another thing that I think I first really understood at Ravencroft.

Mhmm.

Was that it's not, oh, you know one hundred different herbs, but you know one herb with one hundred different uses.

Right. And well, that's the purpose like on Herb Entry where we do the featured herb, which is used to be the herb of the month. We didn't know what else to call it when we started doing it bimonthly.

So the featured herb, and and and the idea is that let's just focus on on herb every couple of months and see everything we can do with that.

Yes. And it's a fast, you know. When I'm teaching about certain herbs, I sometimes feel like it's almost a laundry list. It's like, well, it's good for this and this and this.

We've we've gone we've been online for like almost four years, and we are we've still not close to running out of the herbs that you can do a million things with. Right. Like it's just endless.

Mhmm.

You know, you know, you can do it again and again and again.

I mean, and you could take any one of those herbs and make it a lifetime study and that's all you use. Juliet of the herbs. Juliet de Pericleu Leilani in that movie when she says that's like kind of what she does with rosemary.

Right.

And she's just her father.

Yes. Yeah. From everything.

That's a good one to pick for your everything.

Yeah. It's true. So, you know, that's awesome because I I I was just, you know, just I I of course, I've been wanting an interview for a while, but it's just, you know, the universe came together that we can be in front of this beautiful setting at this place where you're teaching, where our mentor is, where our mentor, everything kind of started for it. Because, to really ground me and and bring it back around to remembering what the importance is of that simple progression of and it was similar for me. It's like people might go, well, John, you know, he's got learning herbs and he knows this and he worked there blah blah blah blah blah.

But the the truth of the matter is I came to this fair, I had an interest, I found a mentor, I started doing it Yep.

And then I started teaching when the opportunity came Exactly. And at least I shouldn't replace the word teaching with sharing because it doesn't have to be teaching. It can be with anyone. It's your your mom or whatever.

Mhmm.

But the, you know, even people in our class who graduate with they may not be here teaching with us, but they are, at home sharing the remedies of people Exactly. That they love with their, you know, with people, family. We know that every one of them that we know of has shared with people. Mhmm. And has had huge impacts in in their jobs. I mean, even, like, I'm just thinking of Bonnie, for example, who who works at the, with, with the city. She worked with the food banks.

The food banks.

And and and and her learning about nourishment, nutrition, and all this, of course, has had an amazing positive impact on the food bank system. Right. In Seattle, she's been interviewed I heard her interviewed on NPR. Right.

You know, she's been like, you know, so she's And Kathy who teaches, you know, middle school students and has, you know, woven the herbs into their curriculum.

And and she's a public school. It happens to be a public school a block from my house, but she's actually, coincidentally, but she she, because she doesn't live in my town, but she has a garden. And she has a beautiful garden and that she, you know, that's part of the science curriculum in a regular public middle school, and they explore all this stuff.

Right. And I I like the fact that you used the word share instead of teach because teach almost Yeah. It almost like a hierarchical. Like, yeah, you have to have all those, you know, degrees and how can I be a teacher?

But just the very fact of, you know, your Herb Mentor students, who are going out there. Members. Members. Right.

Right. Members. Yes.

Your Herb Mentor members who are listening now and who are at their own home, you know, they're gathering and they're making teas, just the pure fact that they're doing that is teaching.

It is by sharing that, you know, you are impacting all the people who come into your kitchen and see that and say, hey, what is that funny jar on the counter?

And the first thing I when I asked Susan Wey to I had the idea for Herb Mentor and I went to an herbal conference in Oregon. Susan Weed is gonna be a video interview, the first thing we're gonna launch it with. Hey, I've got a video interview of Susan Weed. And I sit down on this porch and I put the camera on her and everything and it just has so what is the simplest way for people to have a relationship with plants? And she just looks up and she just goes, breathing.

Well, that's perfect. Yes. Yes. Just just being with the plants. Yep. Yeah. Sharing that energy.

It's just they're giving us the oxygen and we're giving them the carbon dioxide.

Carbon dioxide and yeah.

It's as simple. It's that's the simplest of all gift exchanges between us. And from there, everything else is icing on it.

It's gravy. Yep. It's all gravy.

When you say gravy, because it's nourishing, I say icing on the cake. Because I I have edited Well, I don't I don't say gravy on the cake.

Because that would be wrong. No.

It would be.

Well, you know, JT, it's just been, you know, phenomenal having you in my life and being a good friend of our families for the last, well over a decade by now.

And, it's an honor to have you here today. I'm glad this worked out. And, we're going to want to hear of your continuing herbal adventures to see where you will be teaching next because you obviously have a gift for it. So keep it up.

Oh, thank you, John. And I just wanna say I'm absolutely thrilled to be out here surrounded by cedar and Yeah. Douglas fir and blackberry plants and talking about the herbs, and I think, what you've done with HerbMentor to bring that, that breathing with the plants to people is wonderful. Thank you.

Thank you so much, and thanks everyone for listening. See you next time.

Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com is a production of LearningHerbs.com.

Visit LearningHerbs.com for free herbal lessons, including Herb mentor news, home remedy secrets, and supermarket herbalism. You'll also find the herbal medicine making kit and our board game WildCraft.

Thanks so much for listening.

J.T.: Community Herbalism & Urban Wildcrafting

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