From HerbMentor.com, this is Herb Mentor Radio.
You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio on HerbMentor.com. I'm John Gallagher. My guest today is Christophe Bernard. Christophe is a clinical herbalist from France who was born and raised in Provence.
He spent fifteen years of his life in the US studying medicinal plants and running his first clinic in San Diego. While mostly self taught, Christophe found great inspiration in the writings of Matthew Wood and the late Michael Moore. Upon returning to France in two thousand ten, he opened a clinic in a small village located in the hills of Provence where he spends his time consulting, teaching, picking, and growing plants from around the world. You can visit Christophe anytime at alphiaprovence.com.
That's if you speak French. We have an English website you can look at too in a little bit because it's all related to a really cool trip that he and our very own Rosalie will be running in France in May twenty fourteen, and we'll get to that a little later. Meanwhile, Christophe, good evening. How are you?
Hello, John. It's very good to be with you tonight.
How, how is it, there in France going there, Luke?
It's it's going fine. It's seven PM here. It's the end of my day. The clinic is now officially closed, and I'm happy to be relaxing a little and chatting with you. It's a beautiful day. The sun is shining through the window here, and, I'm excited about this, this discussion.
Oh, great. It's I've been really looking forward to it. So, you were you interested in herbs as a boy, as young were you mentored by someone in your family, or is this something that you kinda got into a little later in life?
Well, I got exposed to herbs pretty early because my grandparents, they they like to to pick and use herbs, and I just loved my grandparents. I was always at their heels.
So I would tag along and and pick herbs with them. But but, really, I just love nature, you know, fishing and hunting and all kinds of other stuff that boys did back then. And plants were just a small part of it. So I'm I'm not gonna give you the story that I fell into a patch of lavender when I was five and then decided to become a herbalist because that that would not be true.
Alright. Interview ends right here, folks.
It sounds pretty good, but no.
And and then I I grew up and and forgot all about herbs actually because I, I ended up studying computer science. I became an engineer, and, that was the first part of my career.
So Herb's just came back to haunt me much much later, I would say.
So you think it was your grandparents spending that time with you, kind of infusing you with that connection. What what what, like, what what what do you think about that? Do you think that that that that's the way it is? Like, we're growing up and then an an adult mentors us someone important, and then we just kinda develop this this place in our hearts and minds for nature?
Yeah. I I think so. I think we lost the notion of of mentorship. I think it was very much ingrained in our history as tribes and as villages.
You know, I know in a lot of tribes when you were a boy of thirteen or fourteen, you always had a male mentor to accompany you through your teenagers and becoming a boy. And that's not the father's role. That's the mentor's role. So, I I had that through through my my grandpa, and, that was that was very structuring to me. And I think Herb's came back later back into my life because it was just so much part of my roots and about when my grandpa taught me. Yes.
So I I'm a little sad that we lost it.
But on the other hand, I guess it's just up to us to, to recreate that that model through, through the local local community or maybe through websites like Herb Mentors, you know.
Yeah. So so did he likes do you know if he specifically had this great passion or interest in herbs, or did he, like is it just something that everybody did? You know, like, everyone knew about how to grow everyone farmed this and everyone did this because you had to.
It's something everybody did back then as far as I remember, and there there are a few things that are very ingrained in the French culture, and we may talk about it, during this interview.
The concept of the daily, the daily herbal tea, for instance, has has existed for for ages and ages. It's something everybody did, but my grandpa just loved nature. You know, we would go pick mushrooms and then we would go hunt rabbits and then we will go fish and we will go pick herbs. The herbs would go to my grandmother because, traditionally in France the women held the herb knowledge and it was passed from mother to daughter and from grandmother to granddaughter.
And the men, they would get little crumbs here and there, but they were not very private to the to the to the whole knowledge, you know, the women were the nurses and and they knew hers, not the men.
So so fast forward years later, you're you're you're, working in, computers, and you had not yet moved to the US. Right? And did you or did you did you start getting into into it, one, you were still in France and then you moved to the US?
I I moved to the US right after I graduated because I couldn't I couldn't find any jobs in France. So I moved to Canada first, and then I spent a couple of years in Ottawa. And then I moved, down into the US still as an engineer.
And then after years of, I don't know, staring at a screen and getting migraines, it just I started to really miss it, to miss nature, to miss plants, to miss my roots as well, my French roots.
And one day I had a bit of also a bit of a of a mystical experience.
I, I, yeah, I just said I was I was relaxing at home, lying on the grass, and then I had a very clear and crisp vision. I saw myself back in Provence and putting medicinal plants in tea bags. And that really came out of nowhere and hit me pretty hard because from that point on, I just I started to buy, you know, I bought a book on herbs and then two and then ten. And then I was picking plants and making tinctures and giving advice to family and friends, and it went on like that for several years.
People at work wondering what you're drinking in those jars.
Yes. Indeed. I was actually, you know, at some point, you know, when when you learn, you you feel the urge to go tell people like, oh, you look this and that. How about you try this tea? Or, oh, I have something for you. And so, yeah, I I did I did some of that and it was very funny.
Yeah. I think we all go through the phase. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You need those skinnier pigs. Right? Not just not just yourself or the family.
So so I did that for for several years. And then at some point I thought I had enough experience to open a first first clinic.
But but I wanted to formalize my knowledge a bit because I I started to knew to know a few a few things, but it was a bit messy. Right? So I thought, hey. Let's go back to school.
So I looked around for for several months, and the one program that I thought would fit me perfectly was the, the Southwest School of Botanical Medicine, that that Michael Moore created.
Back then, he was just running the at home version of the of the program, though, because he was pretty sick already. So I I did that, and it was super helpful to me. And unfortunately, Michael died short shortly afterwards, which was a bit of a shock because I really wanted to meet the guy.
But I was lucky enough to be held by Donna Chestner, who's Michael's wife and former students of Michael too, like, Howie Brownstein and Mhmm.
Howie was great. He spent some time with me, and he was very encouraging to me. And, I'm really grateful for what he did.
And, so at that point, I opened my first clinic in San Diego. And, and shortly after that, I decided to move back move back to France.
You know, that's that's that's quite a story because you just you just decided you're going to do this, and you just jumped right in and did it. And, what what what kind of advice? Like, because there's varying degrees of people, like, who are listening to this from people who who use herbs in their home, help the health of their families, all the way to people who would like to be clinical herbalists. But for someone just who is just interested in herbs and starting out a little bit, new to all of it, and as someone who's self taught like this, what what tips do you have for them?
Like, just, you know, just mindset stuff, you know, just like that's a great question.
Complicated one too.
I think what worked for me is that I think I I had a nice pro and I still have the the mind of an engineer, I think. So I always from the start, I always wanted to understand the why and the underlying mechanics of of, you know, I guess, human being and how plants work. And and and very quickly, it took me to to constitutional issues, like what we call in France the the terrain, you know, the moving away from the symptoms and and disease, really looking at the person, and and what's breaking down in those modern times, I guess, that that make it possible for a disease to appear.
And I think that's why it really clicked when I saw Michael's program a few years back because I think he was that type of a guy.
You know, it's it's here's the underlying constitution with its strength and weaknesses and the different organs and why they run hot and cold and after a while things start to break down. So what served me well was this desire to understand the underlying constitution, I think, because it just it it shone a light on on a lot of things.
I I love asking this question to folks because that I interview because it's always so varying. And I always say that point is that it seems like everyone I interview has a different answer. And often, I'm just like, you know, everyone's different who works with plants, and they're gonna do the you use them differently. And so and they have a different way of approaching.
So there really is no wrong way. There is just following your passion, and and that's really what she did. You know, something awoke in you, and then, bam, you just went for it. And that's really that's awesome.
That's really cool.
So I wouldn't mind just, hitting up a couple of topics here because one thing I really wanna do in this talk, and we'll get to it a little later, is just go on a little, pretend we can close our eyes, pretend we're in France, and then they can take us on a little air block. But before we do that, you were mentioning before about the evening tea. I'd I'd like you to expand upon this and this this notion.
Yeah. So the, the evening herbal tea is something that French people have been doing for ages, and are still doing today, which is quite interesting, right, because we lost a lot of tradition. We lost we lost a lot of things to modern times, but this this habit survived. So, if you're invited by friends, for instance, after dinner, they will offer you some coffee or herbal tea. And, the the typical herbal teas will vary from the much beloved Linden to chamomile to mint to, to, lemon verbena to, whole a whole selection.
And, you you drink that in the winter or in the summer. You might be just sweating like a pig and still drink your your hot, your hot Linden. And people don't mind, they just they just love that. And, and I know Rosalie has been writing about it, and I do agree that I think it might explain partly the the, the the what we call the French paradox, you know, the why we seem to have better health for some reason. I think to me there there are two main reasons why. One is, our love for bitters, and number two is the daily the daily infusion, the daily herbal tea. Yeah.
And and and what, like okay. So tonight in the evening, what what would be your evening tea?
My evening tea really depends on on on how I feel and whether I want to get a little cleansing or whether I want to relax a little or whether I wanna, a particular a particular taste.
The last couple of nights, for instance, I had friends at home and, you know, we had good food and there'll be too much rose wine. So, tonight, I'm probably gonna settle on my dandelion roots, do a little decoction.
I'd like to add, some, orange and lemon peel just because my wife and my kids are gonna drink some of it too. So I wanna give you a little taste, and then I'll probably put a little bit of, lavender honey just for the for the kids because they like it a little sweet. But it's probably what I'm gonna do tonight. Yeah.
That's really cool because that's a that's kind of like, well, here we do, and on Herbalancer, we we talk about the nourishing herbal infusion, which is something that's gotten all around and something that, Susan Weed and Herbalist here has really spread. And we, adopted that and talk about that. And and, like, for example, I do a you you know, maybe there'd be nettles or oat straw. And usually, these ones seem to always focus on more of the nourishing herbs. And are and do they usually focus on like, it seems like a little different here. You're you're you're kinda going more with your intuition, what you're feeling.
Like, it's it seems like it's something that's very connected with your like, you're you're saying to yourself, like, there's something that I would like to experience from herbs specifically, digestive tea or a relaxing tea if they wanna sleep well for instance.
If they want a digestive tea, they would they might use a star anise, they might use fennel seeds, they might use all the Lamiaceae family, of course, course, the Mints and Melissa's and what have you.
If they want to relax a little, there will be chamomile or Linden. Again, linden is very big here.
And then, yeah, what I do is a little more, advanced, but, hey, that's my org.
So Right.
Right. Right. Exactly.
Okay.
That is really great. Is it do you have anywhere or maybe oh, well, Rosalie, it sounds like, has been exploring this a bit. So probably under a mentor as well as, on her blog, you could probably find some recipes or ideas and exploring this more. Because since your site's in French, you know. Yeah. If you're French, go to your site.
You can try actually, a lot lot of people told me they were using Google Translate on my website, which is mind boggling to me because there's, the the, you know, there there are many technical articles with the medical terms, and I wonder how this is gonna turn out, but people can try.
Google Transo. I guess I could scratch learning French off of my list.
Yep. Almost.
So, oh, there's also something you talk about called, like, there are some interesting French herbal practices and the, the period of cure? Yes. Let's talk about that.
Oh, yeah. I talk about it all the time.
Well, then talk about it again, please. Alright.
Let's do it.
So so the the the purity cure is something that people did at the end of the at the end of the winter for for centuries.
They did that because they felt that the the winter food and habits were were just, there was there was the system got dirty. And, in the old writings, you find mentions of dirty blood, for instance, which is a term that is very much used in, in American herbalism as well, the concept of dirty blood.
You spend the winter eating grains and and salted meats back then, you know, and the liver gets a little irritated and inflamed and a little big and a little painful if you palpate it under your ribs. And at the end of the winter, you wanna, while you wanna get ready for work in the field, or whatever trade you had back then, you needed a lot of energy to run through your day. So around March or April, for about two weeks, people did what was called a depurative cure, using depurative plants, which were, mostly dandelion, of course, burdock, of course, but also fumitory, which is a big plant in France, that's Fumeria officinalis.
Also, marubrium, officinalis. Marubrium or horehound is considered a depravity plant here. It's it's very bitter, if you know the plant. Mhmm.
You shouldn't be surprised. So there was a there was a bunch of plants and they were used as simples. Right? So you would pick one and you you would pick one because it grew nearby your house or because you could find it on the way back from work or, you know, people were very practical back then.
Mhmm.
You did that for a couple of weeks, and then, you know, you would force the liver to excrete all that garbage and the gallbladder to excrete more bile and the kidneys to excrete more uric acid and all kinds of waste as well. And after a couple of weeks, you actually felt much better.
And it's it's a concept that I think we should apply today, not not just at the end of the winter, but but, you know, three, four times a year or whenever we have whenever we abuse our body, which is very often or maybe after, you know, summer vacation or maybe after the Christmas holiday.
So I'm trying to reinstate that concept of the depurative cure, but more in the context of the modern clinic, the modern practice. It's it's a little different.
So how how would what would be an example? Let's say I just, you know, I I I binged out all weekend hanging out with friends at big barbecues, meat, beer everywhere.
And I'm like, I, you know, I want what what it, we wanna use it a period of cure. What steps would I take? What would I use? How?
Yeah. And and and and you do that. You do that because after a while, after after several of those evenings, at some point, it's gonna start to run you down. Mhmm. And and you do one because you start to wake up in the morning and you're tired and you you don't know why. And and you feel bloated all the time. Like, you know, you just have a you just had a a salad for lunch, and yet you feel bloated.
Or or somehow you're, again, you're palpating in the liver area, and you feel like it's it's a little painful and you get this white and pasty tongue, you know. So it's not just one or a couple of evenings. After a while, it will this all this will drag you down. So when this happens, you you pick a plant, and, you know, you can go buy energetics.
For instance, fumitoris is very cold and cold and drying. So if you're tall and thin with a tendency to have hypotension and you have pretty dry skin, dry mucosa, it's probably not gonna be the plan for you. You know, you would you would pick another plan or horror hound is is pretty harsh. I mean, you know, I think you need to be very, very strong constitution, you know, big bones, red in the face type of guy to be able to to take a horror hound.
So, you know, you would, based on that, you would go for either more gentle like burdock or a little stronger because you need more of a cleanse. And you may add also other herbs like, nettle, which, you know, gently act on the kidneys, for instance, to further help excretion of of different things. So it depends on this in your situation. It depends on on your constitution.
But I would say at the end of the summer, if you're a teacher, for instance, you want you have you want to have all the energy you need in September when when school starts. So at the end of the summer, for instance, if you're a teacher, you you may wanna do one.
That's a that's a that's a good that's a good point.
About me, you know, it just takes one night really these days at my age. It's not not a hole.
Oh, come on. You're not that hole.
I have no talk. I know.
Alright. So what I'd like to do now is, get to that point. We're gonna do a a plant walk and it's as if we're, out in your garden right there on that beautiful evening in Provence. Lavender fields, rolling fields of lavender.
Not a cliche at all.
I, you know. Alright. So maybe we'll start with the couple that you've mentioned already. And, how about Linden?
Okay.
So Linden is, is, much beloved in, in France. It it I don't know if you've seen a linden tree. Mhmm. I think that Ingros in the US. It's a very, very it's a very big tree.
And we we pick our linden usually in July.
It depends on the flowering state, but we wait till the flowers are just starting to open.
And linden is a big tree, so, you know, as a kid, you get pretty excited about climbing on the ladder with your bag and, you know, finding a big branch up there, sitting on it, and and picking as you spy on the neighbors. I mean, I I loved it.
And then we pick big bags of it and we lay the flowers on the big sheets in the attic and we let it dry.
And then we drink it as, as an infusion. So the term infusion in in France means herbal tea. Right? So but but I'll I will use herbal tea instead not to confuse people with the Susan Weed preparations.
So linden flowers are used first of all, as a gentle relaxant that you take in the evening before going to bed. It prepares you for the night.
It's nice because it slows down your thoughts. You know, it has this sweetness that makes everything seems all right.
Our famous folk herbalist, Maurice Messager said, I don't know if you heard of Messager, but he is quite a well known guy in the French herbal tradition.
He said about Linden, he said, don't expect a tonic. Don't expect excitement. It's not a it's it's not a herb to get you excited.
It acts with the slowness and the majesty conferred by its size. It has the centuries to live and so will prolong your lifespan through regularity and moderation. So I think that's a beautiful, very beautiful quote from him.
It's just that it slows things down. It's a big tree. It's gonna make everything all right.
And the good thing is kids love it and you give it in France, you give it to kids that have a tendency to be overexcited, maybe hyper.
You sometimes add a little bit of lavender honey for the for the little one. It's also very good for all people who cannot find the the sleep they used to have in their past. So it's good for the old and the young.
But we know today that it lowers your blood pressure. And, this, hypotensive effect participates in, in in winding you down. You know, it it sort of it lowers your blood pressure, it lowers your metabolism, it's getting you ready for the night, right?
When I think of Linden, I think there's this sweetness of the mind, but also sweetness of the heart. And I think the two go hand in hand. You know, to me, it's a little bit like Hawthorne for the broken heart in your chest and in your mind as well.
And Linden is a is a little it's somewhat similar. It's for the heart as an organ, but also the heart in your mind. And for that, it it is very good.
For the heart, specifically as an organ, it helps prevent arthritic arthioliosclerosis, so it keeps your artery clean and your blood thin.
It is good to prevent angina and other heart problems. If you have a family history, you probably want to do daily Linden teas.
And of course, it works as a preventative measure, but it's not gonna do much once you have an established heart problem.
But but for prevention, it's a great plant to take on a regular basis. And, of course, I would combine it with Hawthorn in in that in that case.
That sounds wonderful.
Now that's for the flower. We also use the inner bark very much. Uh-huh.
A yep there's a big tradition of the linden inner bark and I I love to use it because you buy you buy the bark in herb stores here, and they have those beautiful long stripes that are thick and brown and very smooth to the touch.
And this smell, I don't know, this woody, the smell of all the countryside houses of something ancient you know it's like I love it. So you cut the bark in small pieces and you decoct it.
And you use that as a well as a depurative plant. You know it's a choleritic, collagogue and diuretic.
So it helps the body excrete all the waste and it's good because it's not bitter at all like some of those depravity plants that are very bitter. That one is is at the opposite. It's it's got this sweetness almost like burdock, you know, little I don't know. It's it's nice and sweet.
And in the context of today's taste buds, where people are less and less tolerant to bitters, then you can use that in your in your tool chest.
So I like it for that, but again, it depends on the constitution. For me, for instance, it just doesn't cut it. You know, I just need my dandelion roots, for instance. And I'm a pita guy.
I need things to I need things to cool me down. I need my liver tends to be hot often so I need liver cooling plants and you know, I need my bidders. I need my dandelion. And I feel that Lindenbark does not work as well for me.
So as usual, you know, pick a good match for the person in the constitution.
That's a really good point. And, it's really fascinating with the inner bark of Linden because, that's not commonly used. I mean, you can't even it's I mean, I'm looking over on on mountain roads. They don't they don't even really even sell it.
So so, I mean, it'd be something that people listening wanted to experiment with. You can Oh, yeah. Make sure there's a tree and then get to know the tree and then get to know how to harvest inner bark, and, you know, which is pretty much branches, you know. You could harvest, and and I can't get into all that now, but, but that's really cool.
It's a very special taste, really. I I I really like the inner bark too. It's it's it's special.
And it yeah.
That and you often wouldn't expect, inner bark to taste like that on your No.
And and if you taste it, if you taste it, you would not think it's a depurative plant. You would not you would not think, intuitionally, you would not think it's gonna act on your liver and your kidney and your kidney. Yeah. Kidneys.
But, you know, it does.
So Very cool.
Okay. You know, there was a plant you mentioned a little earlier too, which, which I think is commonly used in France, but you don't really see commonly used here, which is fumitory.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's like, tell us about that. Let's let's learn this. This will be a new one for a lot of y'all here.
Okay. Okay. So that's Fumeria officinalis.
We use you we use it as a as a as a liver and a and gallbladder herb.
What I like is the fact that it's it's very abundant at the end of the winter, in in the south of France, particularly at the end of January, it starts to bloom every everywhere.
It's still cold outside but that that plant is going to start to grow and bloom and it would cover whole fields in purple. It's very beautiful and the the leaves are blue grayish and the flower is purple. It it gives the fields a very smoky smoky appearance it's very nice.
It's a it's a pretty plant it belongs to the poppy family and it's it's divided leaves. They look very much like California poppy.
So it's it's always been an interesting one for me because I I thought it was available at a particular time of the year when people needed it, which is again at the end of the winter. You know, we you haven't been eating a lot of your greens in the winter and your your digestive tract is probably starting to get a little dirty. So fumeria is gonna be here for you around February, March, and you can start a drink, a tea of it. It's very it's very bitter, so it's not for everybody.
It's it's cold and drying. Right. So historically, if you look at the the countryside people using it, you know, they were just strong constitution people that big bones. They were slow but steady, a bit red in the face, tendency toward essential hypertension.
And they did not mind for Mary at all. Right? Today, it's a bit of a different story. So you don't give it to to anyone.
And a lot of French people are are very thin with a tendency toward hypotension, you know, dry skin and easily exhausted and very butter. I mean, French people are are butter. They they they philosophize and they think a little too much about their their poor human condition.
Really? No. Just kidding.
Yeah. Yeah. In case you didn't know. So, Fumeria won't be a good fit for them.
But yet you will find a lot of French herbal that that tells you that, you know, if you have skin issues, or if you want to, stimulate your liver and gallbladder, you should take fumaria. But that, again, that would be ignoring constitution.
It's interesting because French doctors developed quite a bit of experience with the plant, if you look in the old herbals. And to me, they they explained a question that I had in the past, and I I could never find an answer.
Fumaria belongs to the puppy family. So you will read in certain herbals that it can be sedative, right? Belongs to the puppy family.
But just go ahead and drink, you know, two gallons of the infusion and and tell me if you feel sedated because I certainly don't.
So I was wondering. And and French doctors figure this out. So they explained they explained that, during the first seven days of use, it stimulates the digestive tract. Right? It's good. You get rid of the waste. And then during the following two weeks, it seems to depress the digestive system and reverse the positive actions that you had in the first week.
And then starting at around day twenty it becomes sedative.
So if you take it long enough, you will start to see the sedative effects after about twenty days, and several doctors seem to agree on that number. So I think that's that's quite interesting because I've never found that in the, in the American herbals.
So that's that's, Fumeria, very bitter, a little bit of a smoky taste. Not something you take in your herbal tea in the evening because it's a bit of a yucky taste, but it's a it's a helpful plant to to have in your chest. Mhmm. Oh, and and it's a specific for cramps of the sphincter of Oddi o d d I.
It's it's not a common condition but sometimes you have people that get a cramp in that sphincter, which, is at the end of the, of the gallbladder duct where things get released into the duodenum. And sometimes that sphincter is gonna cramp and fumaria is specific for that. It's very painful condition.
And and and and specifically in this case, the genus fumaria, I mean, there are ones that are like other genuses that in that in that family like dicentras and all, and that's not Yep. So those aren't used like that. So you should just focusing specifically here on the Fumaria genus. Correct?
Well, I mean, in in in the French tradition, Right.
We we do and the diacenter is very much used in the American tradition if I remember. I I've never used it myself.
Okay.
But I don't think it's in the Fumariaceae. I mean, Fumarias in the Fumariaceae, which belongs to the papaveraceae family, or I mean the sorry. My English pronunciation is gonna be way off. I apologize to the listeners, but, so yeah, I'm not sure by about Dysentra.
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because, like, the the Fumari ACA, they have as a family, but they say also sometimes these are treated as a subfamily under papa varicae. So it seems like the botanist or or figuring that one out.
So, you know, let's get a little more, stereotypical Provence here. Let's let's talk let's talk about lavender. Let's let's let's let what do you got? Let's let's how do you use lavender?
It might be different.
Okay. Okay. So lavender. Let's see. Lavender.
I I I like lavender a lot, and I like it for two reasons. First of all, because people only know lavender through the essential oil today. And that that bothers me because that's not how it was used in the past.
And number two, it grows wild where I live.
And usually when you have a plant that grows wild not cultivated then you will find the most interesting uses I think in the in the old herbals.
So, wild lavender growing here is lavangula angustifolia.
We also call it fine lavender.
It's it's super tiny, really. If I take you, through the hills to to show you a plant, I mean, you you can literally hold it in in your in your hands. It's a very tiny plant, and it makes at most five to ten flowering stalks.
No more, right? So very tiny plant, and contrast that to the huge bushes you find in gardens.
Right.
And the aroma coming out of those five flowers is, well it's it's very special.
And I'm gonna brag a little here by saying that it's probably the finest lavender in the world that we have growing here just because perfume makers from all over the world, they send their people to buy from here, to buy the essential oil to make their perfumes. You know, if you make detergents with the lavender smell, you go buy the oil in China. But if you're, Chanel, then you will buy your lavender oil in in Provence.
So it smells really, really special. The old people, they were gathering lavender with a sickle. That's how they would cut it. And, they they had noticed that if you if you gather lavendula angustifolia and you cut yourself with a sickle, you cut yourself badly, then it will heal. And if you cut other types of lavenders like latifolia, for instance, or or what do we call lavendine, which is lavendula intermedia, If you if you cut those and you cut yourself, it's not gonna heal as well. Right. So it's interesting because the wild one angustifolia seems to have something special that that heals you more than the, the others.
Let's see what are the non typical use of lavender that I could talk about?
We use it for different types of organ congestion.
For instance, it was used for liver congestion, and and so congestion.
So whenever whenever you kick an organ into higher function, you know, you have more blood flowing through it. And, if you do that for a while, if you abuse your liver, you drink too much or you eat modern industrial food, your liver runs hot, it gets big and inflamed, and, at some point, it's congested. Right? So, one of our one of our folk herbal guy, Moiz Myssegeregan, he used compresses of lavender flowers right on the liver on the liver area. Right? So you make a poultice and and you you put it right there.
Also for, also for, for other types of congestion, a head congestion, for instance. Some people before the onset of a migraine, for instance, they feel this this tension into the head, into, you know, into the neck, into the eyes as well. It's like your eyes are going to pop out, pop out of your head and you feel a little hot, maybe a little flushed.
And that is blood congestion to the head. Right. So, in that instance, a tea of, a lavender herbal tea may provide some relief to you to relieve the, the congestion. So a simple a simple tea will do the trick.
Right? So I tell my clients, you cut one flowering head and you put it into your cup that's it. Two flowering heads is is can be overpowering. And and in my experience, people will very often reverse to just one flower flowering head in their in their tea.
So I'm I'm a big fan of the of the simple herbal tea of, lavender flowers.
So whenever there's congestion or constriction, then lavender can open things up a bit. It helps to regulate blood flow and it will cool down the condition.
And, of course, it's a good digesting plant. It's it calms down the overexcited person. I mean but those are a little more traditional uses. Well documented in most herbals today. The the organ congestion, I thought, was a little more interesting to mention.
What about, topically? Do you use it for, you know Yeah. What what what use because because a lot of people will have lavender. Like you said, they know it through the essential oil, and they'll have it in their first aid kits or they'll use it in their salves.
So, how would I, for first aid situations or topically just, you know, pick it and use it?
Well, for for topical, situation, you you you would you would do, a very strong infusion, and then you would use it as a compress, for sunburns.
It's a superior herb, very, very good, Or to help to heal wounds, for instance, open wounds. It's very disinfecting. It was used in the first world war for instance in the in the trenches as a as a great wound plant and disinfectant. Of course most of the time people use the essential oil and if you had if you have a bad burn I would go to the essential oil really. It's it's it's more concentrated, and this is one situation where I would go for a little more, you know, concentrated, product.
But, again, I like to use the just the flowers like that.
Nice. How about, rosemary?
Rosemary.
Wow. Okay.
So rosemary, let's see.
So you you were saying earlier on, let let's do a plant walk. Yeah. In my in my heels. So let's do that.
So I need you to picture the region a bit before we do that. It's it's a it's a very rocky landscape. It's got fairly low vegetation.
We don't have huge trees. You know, it's very low bushes.
And there's a lot of rocks and it's mostly limestone.
Now you can imagine we're taking a little hike amongst the, Evergreen Oaks and, you know, maybe we're in late June, early morning. The Cicadas are starting their concert.
And it's gonna be a hot day. We're starting to get a good sweat and having fun.
Then we come upon a a rocky platform, a big chunk of rock, and you see in the middle of that rock a rosemary bush.
And you look around and you don't see any soil, that thing is growing inside the rock. Then you get a little closer and you see a crack in the rock with a tiny bit of soil, maybe just, you know a tablespoon full of soil and in that tiny bit of soil is growing a huge rosemary bush. Right now you get a sprig and you crush it into your hands. What do you think? How is that gonna smell?
Strong. Growing in rocks? Come on.
Yes. Yes. It's it's pretty incredibly powerful.
The essential oils are overpowering your senses. I mean, that's that's a lot more than the culinary herb. It's it is medicine.
So I I like rosemary very much because number one, it's so common that, you know, I I think I think people tend to forget that it can be a complex remedy.
And number two, I think it it addresses the need of an aging population, and I'm gonna talk about it a little more later.
So it's a plan of its time really.
In France, rosemary is known first of all as a liver plant, okay?
And I don't think it's very common in other traditions as far as I can see. Our doctors of the nineteenth century classified rosemary as an aromatic bitter, but as a bitter nonetheless. You know, I think today we tend to see it as as just purely as an aromatic.
And of course, as a bitter, it's gonna be an orchestrator of the whole digestive tract, releasing better fluids, better enzymes. It's gonna work on the timing of the release. It's gonna work on smooth muscle construction. So for digestive issues it is a pretty complex plant and pretty efficient too. But it is also a plant acting on the central nervous system.
Wild rosemary was even used as a mild narcotic in in the past.
For instance, when you had serious cases of whooping cough to calm you down, when you when you had spasm and convulsions.
Rosemary was sometimes used to just, you know, calm you down.
One of our famous doctors of the eighteen hundreds used rosemary for what's called ataxia, which is a neurological problem where you have complete lack of coordination of your muscles and movement. So you're shaking and your hands and all your limbs are shaking. You have no control over the shaking. And sometimes that was caused by high fever. And doctors used rosemary for that. So as you can see it's got it's got some some effect on the central nervous system.
It's a good plan for the circulation to the extremities.
It's a great remedy for what I would call brain fog due to, due to, arteriosclerosis.
And and here I will talk about the aging population a bit. You know, the older you get, the more plaque you get on your arteries. It's just part of the aging process, including in the, carotid artery. So the the artery bringing blood to your head. And of course, this will prevent blood from feeding your brain.
Rosemary will help in that condition.
It will bring the blood back to the head. And I like to associate it with lavender flowers, actually, because lavender flowers have a bit of a similar effect as well. It brings the circulation of, back to the head.
You will you will hear from French people, you know, they will tell you, oh, be careful with rosemary because it can be too exciting.
Or I drank rosemary infusion yesterday night, and I could not fall asleep. My mind was racing. And, you know, it it is true that in the young and healthy people with good circulation, for instance, You know, we might be talking about a person practicing sports with good cardio, good lungs, good lung functions.
In that case, it can be exciting to you. But if you have a deficient circulation, then at the opposite, it will help you. It will actually calm you down because if you look at all people, you know, those that are getting a little forgetful, they're not able to remember what they did yesterday or they're not able to concentrate on crossword puzzles maybe.
It's really a stress to them.
If you give them rosemary day in and day out, then it brings the blood back to the head. They can think more clearly, and they would lose a bit of that stress of the, oh my God, could it be Alzheimer, you know? They they so in that context, rosemary could actually be relaxing to them.
So it's a good plan for that.
And finally, I always recommend an infusion or sorry a tea of rosemary and lavender flowers in those periods of your life when you need to make important decisions and you know you might be a little stressed and scatterbrained maybe because you're running on adrenaline and cortisol and and maybe it's a big move in your life. Maybe you're changing careers and you need to make important decisions. So take rosemary and lavender flowers in a tea every morning. It will help you to get clarity of thoughts. You'll be able to sit down and and make those important decisions.
I ain't gonna do that.
Yeah.
This is thank you. I it'd probably be better than this coffee.
You know, before we wrap it up, we're still on our walk here. We'll make it herbalist's choice. So you what's your what would you like to what plant would you like to share on your on our walk here?
Another plant I like to share well, I've got a bit of a of a funny story, though. I mean, that's funny, but there's a plan that I used to to hate.
I'm a I'm a mountain biker. I I love to bike. And there's this one plan that was puncturing my tires for for months and years. And every time I would just get down and change the tire and just just be so mad at this plant.
And then one day, it just it it I I I was looking at the plant and, like, wondering, could this be puncture vine? And, yeah. That was it. So tree tribulus tribulus terrestris is growing everywhere here here and and mountain bikers just hate it.
I've got whole fields of tribulus.
So I started to get acquainted to the plan. So, you know, if I take you in my field, for instance, and you're wearing flip flops, are you wearing flip flops today, John?
No. Okay. Good. It's too cold where I live. Even in even in August.
Really?
That's sad. That's sad. Because I tell you, you'd better have your, Saint John's wort tincture with you because you will end up with lots of puncture wounds in your in your feet.
So I got to I got to, I got acquainted with Tribulus on my biking trips and and I'm using it now and it's it's a plant that helps you convert cholesterol into testosterone.
So it's a good plant for the aging male who seems to be running low on testosterone.
You know, maybe they've been running some muscle mass and gaining some abdominal fat, you know, starting to get the, the Homer Simpson profile with a, you know, the sagging pants due to loss of butt muscles.
You know, in that in that case. And and and that man has high cholesterol. In that case, the the issue might be due to the the the the a bad a bad, how do you how do you say this? Transcription or or or, conversion. That's the word I was looking for. A bad conversion of cholesterol into testosterone and Tribulus will help you in that case.
You can tincture the whole plant when it's bearing fruits, those pesky puncturing fruits, you take the whole aerial parts, you tincture it and you give it to your clients for that.
So that's puncture vine.
Wow. That that that's another handy one I could be using. Okay.
Sagging pants. Send me a picture.
Oh, yeah. Now the forties do that to you.
So, let's see. I was, my screen okay. There we go. My screen disappeared for me for a second there. So, before we go here, I wanna talk about, this trip that you're doing.
Yeah.
And, so you and our very own Rosalie Dela Ferre is, from Learning Herbs and Herbs Mentor running an herbal intensive in Provence this coming May, May twenty fourth to the thirty first twenty fourteen. The first thing I learned about this trip is don't bring flip flops.
You know?
Do the work. And if you do, make sure there's some Saint John's word handy. That's right. So, and this is and this this experience is in English because and, and and so that's for most listening here, that will be important. But can you tell us about the intention behind this, journey that you're doing here?
Wow. So I, I met Rosalie, I think it's about it's been about two or three years ago. I think two years ago, two summers ago, she came to France to, to pay me a visit.
And, Either that or visit her mother-in-law, one or the other.
Yeah. Maybe both.
But, and we we we we immediately clicked. We we got along, really well, and we, we hiked through again through the hills and did some planned walks. And I think very quickly we we started to dream of this, of this retreat.
And we've been in touch since then, really starting to, to put some pieces of the puzzle in place and picking dates. And so yeah it's going to be a week long intensive course in in Provence, actually right where I live.
In terms of what we will teach, I think we we will have different sections. First of all there's gonna be some diagnostic skills. We're gonna teach some tongue diagnosis, some some pulse taking and also some, some iris, iridology, which, in parenthesis, iridology is very big in France. So I'll be I'll be teaching some of that.
And then we'll we'll cover a lot of clinical topics and one aspect we have decided to focus on is degenerative diseases like autoimmune diseases, diabetes, cancer. I mean all those things that both Rosalie and myself are seeing quite a bit in our practice.
So this class is not really for for beginners.
I think the sweet spot would probably be people who've been studying herbs for a while and maybe they're about to open a practice or maybe their herbalist would just open the practice, you know, maybe their their first year or so, or or just advanced students of of herbs who wanna know a little more about the, you know, diagnostics and and and the clinic.
Right. So not so much focused on this is how you make this medicine or that medicine, but more focused on the diagnostics.
Yeah. We'll have some we'll have some, some medicine making, well, a little bit more advanced, methods like percolation, for instance. We'll we'll teach how to to make tinctures through through percolation, which not a lot of people know how to do lately. But but you're and you're correct. Most of it will be more clinical. Yeah.
Mhmm.
And, you know, that's just really a cool thing to be able to go all the way to Provence and so you can kind of combine your, you know it's just like combining adventure and discovering a new part of the country and some new plants and and Yeah. And, or even even it's really cool to see some very familiar plants, but perhaps plants that are growing in their more native environments.
And That's right.
I mean, we'll we'll do, we'll have some very beautiful hikes. I mean, well, we we have planned a amazing hike that takes you from one small village to another village, through a very, very old trail dating back from the from the Romans and even before that. And it's a hike through the hills. It's really beautiful. And we'll meet all the local plants.
We'll go to my garden as well because, you know, I've been doing this garden for my fourth summer now, and every year I keep adding some new plants. So it's, it's a pretty pretty cool garden at the moment. I have a lot of plants from around the world.
And of course, you know, there'll be French food and, we we have found quite the place to, to lodge.
Technically, anything you eat there is gonna be French food.
That's right. It's all good.
And and we found we found a great place to to, to to lodge everybody as well, ourselves included. So, I it's gonna be quite a quite an intense experience, and we're really looking forward to that.
Well, I went you know, of course, every or mentor knows Rosalie, but I I thought it would be great.
One many reasons I wanted to do this interview was so folks can hear your voice and get to know you too and Oh, that's great.
Yeah.
Thank you. Introduction to to Yeah. Their their teacher. So, so in this trip, you know, they're they're I'm sure that people who are interested in it will have a lot of questions.
So, there is a website Rosalie set up Yep.
Plants in france dot com. And she also has this really cool free ebook, ten simple recipes inspired by France that Rosalie wrote and put together and designed, and you get that free. Just visit us that site, and that has all of the nitty gritty details.
So check that out. And, again, Christophe's site, Althea, like, we have a person who works in learning herbs named Althea, so that's really cool. So althea provence dot com is Christophe's site, and we just found out you could use Google Translate. So go there, check it out, use Google Translate, unless you're listening to this in France or or Quebec.
That would help. So, so, Christophe Bernard, thank you so much for taking your time this evening, and talking with us on Urban Inter Radio. It's it's fantastic to meet new herbalists, especially from different parts of the world, and, I hope to get to meet you in person someday soon too.
So Well, John, thanks for this discussion. I really enjoyed it. And I I wanna say again that I I admire what you did with her mentor. You created a fantastic community, and I like to be I like to be part of it. So thanks for the talk tonight.
Any time you wanna log in to the forum and contribute, you are more than welcome. So Yeah. Please. Please.
Thank you.
Alright. Cool. We'll see you soon, Chris. Thank you, and have a great evening everyone.
Thanks, John. Bye.
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