Tara Ruth:
I'm an uplifting adaptogen. What can I say?
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And I'm a sialogogue.
Tara Ruth:
That's what that sound was. Okay.
John Gallagher:
You are listening to HerbMentor Radio by Learning Herbs. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. John?
John Gallagher:
Yes.
Tara Ruth:
I'm super excited to chat with you today.
John Gallagher:
Likewise.
Tara Ruth:
It's just the two of us.
John Gallagher:
Just the two of us.
Tara Ruth:
Exactly. It was good. I caught the reference, don't worry.
John Gallagher:
Oh, yeah. Sorry. Gen-Xer or millennial.
Tara Ruth:
I'm a cusp.
John Gallagher:
You're a cusp. Okay.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Technically a millennial.
John Gallagher:
Yes, it is. Just from us old Gen X-ers who remember this one.
Tara Ruth:
It's a great song.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. It's just the two of us. And we're going to dive into some super fun spring herbalism today.
John Gallagher:
Yay.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah.
John Gallagher:
What are we going to talk about?
Tara Ruth:
We're going to talk about spring allergies. We're going to talk about, talk about gardening. We're going to talk about infused vinegars. We're going to talk about skincare all through the lens of spring.
John Gallagher:
That sounds great. Well, let's just get right to it. That sounds like a lot of fun.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. I have an agenda.
John Gallagher:
An agenda? This is a meeting. Everyone welcome to the HerbMentor Radio meeting. That was the agenda. And the first question is Tara, what are the best herbs to grow in a spring herbal garden?
Tara Ruth:
I'm so glad you asked John, the first line on the agenda item. Okay.
John Gallagher:
Cross that out.
Tara Ruth:
Right. I have five favorite herbs to grow in springtime, which also just so happened to correlate to an article we have on our Learning Herbs blog that's free to check out. But my top five favorite herbs to grow during this time of year are calendula, rosemary, spilanthes, tulsi, and spearmint. So I'm going to dive into all of those a little bit. That's just overview. Calendula, so many people are familiar with this herb. Calendula is in the daisy family. It's super, it has these beautiful bright orange flowers and it's really easy to grow in pots or in garden beds or just next to if you have beautiful rows of plants in your garden already. I like to have them grow along the edges of the rows, and it grows very well in full sun and just offers an abundant harvest throughout the late spring and sometimes even into the fall.
And calendula is so versatile. I love to use the flowers, the dried flowers in a tea or in an oil. And with that tea or oil, I use them to help support my digestive system. The calendula tea is super helpful for digestive health with healing the gut lining, and then also it's slightly antimicrobial and it's also a lymphatic, which means it can help support the health and detoxification of your lymphatic system. So it's great to take calendula after you've had a cold, if you're just feeling a little bit of lingering stagnation in your body and calendula is uplifting. So especially at this time of year, I love taking herbal medicines that have flowers in them. If I'm feeling any lingering winter blues or stagnation. There's just something really nice about having that kind of uplifting brightness of any flower really, especially calendula.
John Gallagher:
I just love having them all over the yard, really. A little here, a little there. And it's just fun to go around and pick them. Sort of like when you go out and harvest dandelions, you can just go out and harvest calendula and harvest some, and then Kimberly likes to put them in the freezer for a bit and just makes a freezer collection so she can just have poultices any time of year. Yeah, yeah. Just have a ziplock bag in the freezer and you feel like going out for a few minutes and harvesting. Go out and grab some flowers, stick them in your ziplock bag and move on, and eventually you have them for all year round, just for straight on poultices. And we had it even blooming and up here in Washington this winter, it was really cold out. It was even blooming winter up here a little bit.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. That's amazing.
John Gallagher:
I know.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. Yeah, and like you were saying, just like calendula is super helpful internally, using it externally for our skin is incredible. It's a vulnerary, so it helps promote tissue repair. I like to use it on small cuts, bruises, bumps, scrapes, and it can also help reduce scarring as well. So calendula is a really special herb, and I'm going to say that every year, but whatever. Calendula is really special.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Yeah. Rosemary Gladstar always says, "I can't pick my favorite herb. It's like asking you to pick my favorite child."
Tara Ruth:
So true.
John Gallagher:
Which I can do, but I'm just saying no.
Tara Ruth:
Which one?
John Gallagher:
No, no, no, no, no. My daughter does listen to this podcast sometime. It's you, honey.
Tara Ruth:
That's amazing. Speaking of Rosemary Gladstar, let's talk about Rosemary the plant.
John Gallagher:
Oh, of course.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. So Rosemary is another one of my favorite plants to grow this time of year, depending on what kind of climate you live in, it may have survived the winter time. For example, I live in a more Mediterranean climate in California, so Rosemary has been blooming around me since February actually.
John Gallagher:
Wow.
Tara Ruth:
And for folks who maybe live in more extreme climates, you might bring your Rosemary in during the winter or it might be in a greenhouse or whatever it may be. But Rosemary is an easy plant to grow, which is so nice and it grows abundantly. And I love working with Rosemary at this time of year because it's so nice to just walk outside and grab a few of the leaves and chew on them before I eat. It helps with bringing more easeful digestion and increasing, how do I say it, increasing our digestive fire, increasing our ability to digest our foods, which can be really nice after the stagnation of winter, if you're feeling just any lingering stuckness or stagnation and wanting to get things moving more in your body. It's also a circulatory stimulant, so it's going to increase circulation throughout the body and just subtly warm things up in there. And it's just lovely.
John Gallagher:
And Rosemary you can starts at most spring markets, supermarkets, farmers, markets, places. Calendula was really easy to grow a seed really. I think that's the best way to do it. Get a packet of seeds, put them in the ground and walk away. But whereas with Rosemary, or if you know how to do clippings, you can learn how to do that. And with mint family plants like that. And where I was in the wet area of the Northwest, it was really hard to get Rosemary to grow longer term. But where I am in this little microclimate area way up in Pacific, Northwest Ocean, it's like a little bit of a Mediterranean feel to it, drier. So we have a gigantic plant rosemary plant in our backyard, which is incredible. So I just walk out the door and planted it. It's a great one for that door yard garden. Have it right out the door, you can go on out and take some clippings from it and add it to your meals anytime.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, I love that. Rosemary is so nice to have near your house too, because it has a lot of associations with being a protective plant. So we can think about that on an immune level. It can help support healthy immunity, which is our body's defense mechanism, protective mechanisms, but then in this more spiritual, energetic way, Rosemary also has all these associations with being protective and you can dry rosemary and use it in an incense and burn that incense in your home and it can just bring this sweet protective quality wherever you have Rosemary.
John Gallagher:
Excellent.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. So that's Rosemary.
John Gallagher:
I have a feeling you're going to say spilanthes next because since you've been with Learning Herbs, you like spilanthes.
Tara Ruth:
I love spilanthes. I've been really pushing spilanthes hard to the public.
John Gallagher:
You're a spilanthes pusher.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, for sure.
John Gallagher:
Well, tell us about it.
Tara Ruth:
Well, the first time spilanthes and I made the ill-advised choice to pop one of the beautiful gum-dropped shaped flowers into my mouth hole. And one of the main things you need to know about spilanthes is that it is a sialogogue. What does that mean? It helps increase saliva production in the mouth. And I chewed this whole flower and immediately had the most intense salivation response, salivatory response I've ever had, and I had to spit it out. It was wild. But despite that ill-advised choice in my first meeting with spilanthes, we overcame that challenge in our relationship, and I've really grown to love this beautiful herb. I use spilanthes pretty much interchangeably with Echinacea, and that's really nice because spilanthes grows so much more quickly than Echinacea because when you work with Echinacea, you often want to use the root in addition to the flowers, so you have to wait longer to harvest that root. With spilanthes, you use the leaf and the flowers and you can keep clipping them throughout the season, and they grow very abundantly. So it's so nice to have this kind of, not like a-
John Gallagher:
What about for those of us who don't live in wild California like you.
Tara Ruth:
You would want to grow it on a pot and then bring it in during colder times of the year. But you could also just grow it with the knowledge that it might die back in the colder weather and then replant it and it'll grow abundantly during the summer. Yeah, such a good question.
John Gallagher:
Wonderful.
Tara Ruth:
So that's spilanthes.
John Gallagher:
Spilanthes.
Tara Ruth:
Love it so much. And I like to work with spilanthes as a tincture rather than a tea because of that sialagogic effect can be a little too intense as a tea when I've tried it before. So just taking the tincture. So lovely. Up next we have tulsi.
John Gallagher:
Yes.
Tara Ruth:
Have you ever heard of tulsi, John?
John Gallagher:
It is the same as holy basil.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. Yes. Well done.
John Gallagher:
It's not basil, but it's in the mint family.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. Yeah, they're related and they have some similar energetics to them as well. Tulsi is a traditional Ayurvedic herb, and it's so lovely. It's an uplifting adaptogen, so it helps our bodies adapt to stressors and specifically really helps regulate the nervous system. When I work with tulsi, I feel the most profound sense of calm, but also uplifting joy in my body. What a nice thing to experience with one plant to be grounded joy. And tulsi also is really helpful for healthy digestion, and I like to use it in body care products because it has this slight warming quality to it, so it can be really nice in a massage oil or in a body balm. Just tulsi is one of those herbs that people fall in love with very quickly when they meet them. So I hope that everyone gets to have their own love story with tulsi if they so choose.
John Gallagher:
But it's a little trickier to grow than just to pop in a calendula seed right on the ground.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, yeah. So I like to start it during the spring with some seeds. And then where I live in California, it grows very abundantly if you tend to it and have it in the sun. It grows well in big garden beds, but it also grows really well in a pot. So it grows well in sunshine and lots of warmth. And if you're in a cooler climate, you may need to start it later in the season or start it indoors and work with the climate that you're living in.
John Gallagher:
Right, right, right. Need a little research there, but it's definitely one to get to know fresh if you can.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. Oh, it's so good fresh.
John Gallagher:
What's the fifth herb? What's the fifth herb?
Tara Ruth:
Oh, who knows? Yeah, it's spearmint.
John Gallagher:
Oh, it's spearmint. Okay. That sounds easy to grow. I like meat.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Spearmint is so easy to grow. I feel like people underestimate spearmint. Everyone's like peppermint, woo, and I love peppermint. A fun fact is that peppermint is actually a cross between spearmint and watermint, which I've never actually encountered. So spearmint's like the cool parent of peppermint, and it just has less menthol content than peppermint. So it's a little less warming, a little less intense. And like peppermint it's really helpful for supporting digestive health if you're experiencing gas or bloating or a stomach ache. And it also is calming, but also uplifting to the nervous system.
And to grow spearmint, it depends what yard you're working with and how contained you want this plant to be. So maybe you don't have a yard, maybe you have a stoop. And spearmint grows super well in a pot and likes a little more dappled light or shade. And then if you let spearmint just go into your garden, it's going to love to spread everywhere with runners. So it's a good thing to keep in mind what kind of boundaries you want to have with this plant. I love letting it grow everywhere because it's just such a sweet, abundant plant.
John Gallagher:
And speaking of pots, not pot, not pot, but pots. If you live in an apartment, have some sun, little container gardens can be a great way to go and spearmint our calendula for sure. Even a rosemary plant, you could try experimenting with growing things on just a handful of plants, a few plants on your garden, on your little patio, rather. Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. I completely agree. Even though I have a yard this year, I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed and I don't have the time to tend to a full garden. But I have a beautiful balcony, so actually, I'm going to have all of these plants and pots on my balcony.
John Gallagher:
I have video somewhere of Rowan and I when he's a year old and we're planting calendula flowers together, the seeds, we have the container in our apartment deck and we're pushing them in and planting them, and it's just really cute. I got to find that clip somewhere.
Tara Ruth:
That is intensely cute, John. Intensely.
John Gallagher:
So cute. So cute. Wonderful.
Tara Ruth:
Oh my gosh. So sweet. What herbs do you like to grow, John, out of curiosity?
John Gallagher:
Well, Tara. Hi Tara. How are you doing?
Tara Ruth:
I'm so good.
John Gallagher:
It's great. Just me and you talking. All right. I actually want to share with people my overall philosophy about how I like to garden because-
Tara Ruth:
Please share.
John Gallagher:
I think it's important to be forgiving for yourself when you're growing. So you can visit an herbalist herb garden and see like, oh my gosh, look at all this. Is a lot of work, like you said, a little overwhelming in your yard. Well, my philosophy is I like planting medicinal herbs that don't need much tending or hardly need any tending. They could do fine just on their own. And then my job just becomes weeding and watering in the dry dry times, but maybe not need a lot of water. Where I used to live near the Seattle area, we never watered our garden all summer because there was just enough water happening. But here it's a little dryer, so we got to do a little more, but I just like to do stuff that just doesn't need a lot of babying.
And also, I'm more of a wild crafter. I like to go harvest. I like to go out of the woods and fields and harvest, but there's a lot of friends I like to have right near me that I can't harvest. So I just make sure who do I want to get to know and what herbs do I want to experiment with and like that. So I have, like you said, spearmint. I like that mints. I like to have comfrey nearby, which you have to be careful. Just don't till around it or dig it up, it'll stay where it is if you plant one. I like Havoc in Asia there. Purpurea for where I live. And marshmallow, boneset. These are ones, and actually that can be a little tricky. So we try sometimes to grow some herbs that we really want. We love skullcap, and for some reason, no matter what we try, whether it starts or whatever, we just can't get that to grow. It just doesn't want to be there.
I mean, even chickweed, which will just show up places where, not so much where I live, but I mean wasn't there for a long time and you can really transplant that, but it's popped up this year and it's all over the place. Or you'll have St. John's where just decide to grow in our rock wall all of a sudden. Things like that. You got to love that. So for me, herbs like that, that always make sure we have Ella campaign. My gosh, there's nothing you got to do for that. For where I live, we've always made the honeys, but I also love the wild plants around my yard. What's down the trail on the side of my house, what's growing naturally around there? What can I reintroduce to the area so it could grow in the wild there? I think like that. And herbs can be really forgiving and often if they're stressed, the medicine can be better. So that's something to think. I just want to tell you my one story about basil.
Tara Ruth:
Please do so.
John Gallagher:
So when I worked at this, it was called the Herb Farm. It's a fancy restaurant in the Seattle area, but they used to have a nursery and I worked at the nursery and I loved working with the medicinal plants and learning about them and sharing with people and getting them to try to put medicinal plants in their gardens and all. But of course one of the big sellers is basil, right? You talked about holy basil before, but tulsi, but basil, I'm talking about basil, basil, like you put in people, most people make pesto with, then you can do that with chickweed and nettle too.
But let's just talk about with basil, and I didn't understand that this was a plant that was liked dryer and Mediterranean and I over water, I kept watering it because I thought that's what you're supposed to do with all plants. And I killed a gigantic crop and oh my gosh, my boss was not happy. But I learned a lesson that day, folks. My intention to where the plants are native to which is going to give you a clue as to how much water to provide for that plant and what might grow for you.
Tara Ruth:
Totally. Such a good point. Yeah. Just like all of us, all the plants have different needs.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. And so yeah, that's what herbs I grow and my overall philosophy. I just thought that might help folks maybe get an idea of what they want to grow.
Tara Ruth:
Totally. And I think it's so helpful to take a step back when you're getting, especially at this time of year spring, getting excited about starting new projects spring into action, to really take a step back and start simple and assess the space that you have, your budget for, your garden and your time. What capacity do you have to tend to this space? And then really asking yourself what herbs you are wanting to grow and then what remedies do you want to make? If you really like making remedies with calendula, then maybe you want to grow calendula. Yeah. Or maybe you really like to make remedies with, I don't know, mugwort or lavender, whatever it may be. It can be nice to grow those herbs and really cultivate a relationship with them throughout the seasons.
John Gallagher:
And if you are going to be in a property a long time, maybe you're fortunate to own a house or property you live at, maybe you can plant some things like an elder tree even and get that and think ahead and get that going or plant it anyway for somebody who's going to live in the land or in the future. You can always do a lot of good environmental stewardship by planting medicinal herbs that are native to an area. I'm sorry, I'm getting off track, aren't I?
Tara Ruth:
No, let's right on track. Keep going.
John Gallagher:
All right. All right. But yeah, so Tara, any tips for people just getting started with herbs?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, I think it really goes back to what I was just saying about starting simple and asking yourself, getting really clear on what space you have, what budget you have in your time, and then diving into exploring what herbs you want to grow and what remedies you want to make. And then asking about the needs of each of those herbs, like you were saying before, checking in on like, "Oh, how would tropical plant grow?" And if I live in the Northeast, how would that grow around me? There might not be information online, so you can experiment, but also knowing that that plant might not thrive where you are and that's okay. Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Do you know this is exactly why on Herb Mentor, which is our herbal membership site for learning herbs, you just go to LearningHerbs.com and check it out. We made a ten-part mini course called Cultivating Wellness that takes a permaculture approach and actually gives you this list of 13 herbs to start with and grow that can grow in most places. And it focuses a lot on building your soil and things like that, which are really important too. But don't get overwhelmed with that too much. Sometimes it's just best to just get that start and stick it in the ground. So what happens? And just don't let that overwhelm you. I got to spend two years planting my garden.
Tara Ruth:
Totally.
John Gallagher:
But it's just something to help you if you're cultivating wellness. And that's on our Mentor.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. When I first got excited about herbs, I grew two herbs that year. I had two pots and I grew them from the start. So I had a pot of thyme and a pot of catnip, and I just hung out with them every day and got to know them throughout the seasons until a cat, neighborhood cat did destroy my catnip plant, which was devastating.
John Gallagher:
Oh, that's always a danger.
Tara Ruth:
All that was left was a tuft of fur and it's like...
John Gallagher:
It's great. We have five or six herbs in our garden that we got over 26 years ago. Kimberly and I, we started dating even before Rowan was born and put them in some rental we were in, just stuck them in the backyard garden and we moved them, every time we moved and we moved eight times is the one. Rowan was a lot of times when he was little before to five years old, probably a total of 10 times at this point. And the two thirds of those herbs are those six, eight herbs, whatever, they are still in our garden from the original roots.
Tara Ruth:
That's so special. Wow.
John Gallagher:
Like elecampane and the marshmallow and boneset and a few others.
Tara Ruth:
Legacy.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, legacy herbs. I know. I know.
Tara Ruth:
Nice.
John Gallagher:
You get attached. Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. When I am at various places where I've planted gardens and then left, you can find me digging up some of the yarrow and transplanting it to my garden or to friends' gardens or the spearmint, whatever it may be.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. It's fun. It's fun. And that's how you can learn what works, what transplants, what doesn't. Speaking of planting things, if I'm planting herbs in the spring, which ones can attract beneficial insects?
Tara Ruth:
So all of these flowering herbs are going to attract lovely pollinators. But a few other ones that I love to include in my garden to attract pollinators are borage, echinacea and lemon balm. They all just have such beautiful abundant blossoms that bees and other ones love. And then also you could grow a native milkweed. Yeah, I was thinking back to last year when we interviewed Nada and Fatima about milkweed and monarch butterflies and they just went into a deep dive all about milkweed and how planting it can help benefit the beautiful monarchs. So if you're interested in that, you can check out that episode and learn more about growing milkweed where you are.
John Gallagher:
Yes, absolutely. That was a great episode. And it's great to keep in mind the pollinators, the insects that you're beneficial, you're creating it just really a fun thing to build soil and to make your yard, even if you're there for a little while, leave it better than you found it, it's always been our motto. And you can do that even if you're just renting somewhere or you're just visiting somewhere. I remember one time I was at an herb conference, International Herb Symposium, and Jim McDonald is just the people. He is the herb watch king. Everyone loves our blocks at Jim McDonald. They're always full. And I remember he just went to somebody's booth that was selling native plants and bought things like goldenseal and solomon seal, things like that. And one's on the endangered list and of united plant savers. And as he's giving his forest plant walk, he just kind of reaches in his bag and takes out a plant and puts it in and keeps walking. And you see that role modeling. You can do this too. Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Really being a steward of native plants and plants are at risk and endangered is another beautiful way to attend to and honor the land around you. And such a great way to attract the native pollinators around you too, around the ceanothus or redroot is a native plant that is in such brilliant bloom right now. And it's, so yesterday I went for a hike in the redwoods and I had to stop and pause to stare at this beautiful ceanothus plant with its bright blue blooms and bees just a buzz all over it.
John Gallagher:
And that's where it can be really fun to go out and try to identify and spray maybe some herbs you haven't met before. Ceanothus I found it in an honorable book one time and I went to Eastern Washington and it was a big adventure to find it and identify it and ooh, I couldn't dig it up, it was down those rocks. But I mean, I didn't really want to, I was just getting to know it to meet it before I went and figured out how I might use it or harvest. But yeah, that's another wonderful lymphatic herb that will help.
Tara Ruth:
Yes. Exactly. That makes such a beautiful, I love tincturing it and it makes this beautiful bright red tincture, Hence being called redroot.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. I don't know if that grows on the East coast. Does it? I always think of it more of a westerner, but I might be wrong.
Tara Ruth:
I don't know either.
John Gallagher:
Well, there is a puzzle. There's a question for all you listeners, that's something for you to look up. Let's not answer it. Yeah. So we've been talking about gardening and I was just mentioning about ceanothus and going out in the wild. So let's talk about wild crafting a little. So what herbs do you like to forage in the springtime, Tara?
Tara Ruth:
Such a good question, John. I'm thinking about what you said with even in your yard, looking at the wild edges and what kind of herbs are starting to grow in there. That might be volunteers or quote-unquote "Weeds." And those are often the herbs that I like to wild craft the most. The ones that get looked down upon by the average person as being an annoying weed. I love cleavers and chickweed and plantain and dandelion.
John Gallagher:
Those are all in my yard.
Tara Ruth:
These are the plants that I'm stepping on at the soccer field as I'm dribbling by, and it's so sweet, yeah, they grow so abundantly. So that's another reason why I really like to work with them. And also these plants all offer some specific gifts that are so tailored to what our body needs during springtime. So for example, cleavers and chickweed are both these really kind of invigorating lymphatic herbs that just help, I feel like after the stagnation of winter, they just flush through my body and I end up feeling, it feels like all of the spring green energy is just rushing through my body when I drink cleavers and chickweed tea. It's so nice.
John Gallagher:
And you know what, sometimes it's like people, they find some plant-based powdered drink that they want to make and whatever, and they're having that all the time all year round. And it's good for us to eat more of what's in season. So if you have some cleavers growing or chickweed, it's at that phase for just a little bit. And you can get what you need, what your body needs in the springtime by adding that to say it's juicing or whatever you're doing.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. With cleavers and chickweed, I love to throw them in my little Nutribullet blender with some water, just blend it up and then I strain it, especially if I'm doing cleavers because they're a little more fibrous. And then you just have this wonderful fresh, green drink. It's so nice.
John Gallagher:
And when we need it, it helps with your lymphatic system during a time when our bodies are shifting into spring and so it's really great.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. And a lot of us have been maybe had a cold during the wintertime, our immune system, so it can be a little more taxed during winter. So as we rise into spring, really supporting our immune slash lymphatic system with these invigorating greens. It's so nice.
John Gallagher:
Tara, I was wondering with your relationship with wild plants growing in your yard, have you ever been made fun of by housemates in the past about how you tend those?
Tara Ruth:
I live with a lot of witches.
John Gallagher:
Oh, okay. Well, and I'm talking 30 years ago. I'm talking like this was around 28, 30 years ago. I'm living in this house in Maryland, I was with my brother and a couple of his friends and my job was to mow the lawn and I always mowed around patches of plantain. I always left the chickweed in the garden. They would just go "Just mow the lawn John," or I'd leave a patch of dandelion, get the flowers, and they would just always make fun of me. And then I'd have all kinds of weird things in the freezer that they were like, "What are these ice cubes?" I'm like, "Oh, those are jewelweed ice cubes." I get made fun of by my brother for that.
Tara Ruth:
So funny.
John Gallagher:
But yeah, mowing around the plantain, you always need quick access to plantain and yarrow in your yard no matter what, someone gets a cut in the house, it's like you bolting out the door and you know right where it is.
Tara Ruth:
Exactly. I love plantain so much. Oh, my. Did I already tell you about my nose piercing story and plantain?
John Gallagher:
No. No.
Tara Ruth:
Okay. So right before the pandemic started, I got a nose piercing and I was so excited. And then it got infected during the early pandemic because I was wearing a mask, so it kept on getting irritated and I had to remove it on my own because none of the piercing shops were open nearby. And then I had this big bump on my nose left over from the piercing, and I poulticed it with plantain for every day for a month, and the bump completely went away.
John Gallagher:
Nice.
Tara Ruth:
Which I was so grateful for.
John Gallagher:
Nice.
Tara Ruth:
So plantain has a very special place in my heart and on my face. Yeah. I'm so grateful for that plant. And it's like you were saying, so helpful with if you have a burn or a cut or a scrape as a poultice, and also really nice for bee stings and wasp stings, so nice to have on hand fresh in your garden.
John Gallagher:
Yes. I bet you got another one there.
Tara Ruth:
I do. Dandelion, which you already mentioned. But yeah, dandelion, I mean, there's so many things you can do with this wondrous quote-unquote "Weed." I love working with the flowers, I love working with the stems, the leaves and the roots. And then of course, making wishes on the beautiful little flower or the seed heads. With the root I really like roasting the roots and drying them and then roasting them in my oven and then grinding them up and using them in a quote-unquote "Coffee manner." It's not caffeinated, but it does have a similar effect on your digestive system and feels like just kind of invigorating for the body. And then the leaves are so nice and salads and are also a diuretic. And then the flowers are delicious to add to salads, to add to cookies and to fritters. You can get really creative with it. I also really like to infuse the flowers into an oil and they are really helpful for, if you use that as a body oil, it's very helpful for moving lymph throughout the body, helping with lymphatic stagnation. So, dandelion.
John Gallagher:
And please keep in mind everyone, it's to pay attention to where you're harvesting. And you don't want a jaggedy old dandelion leaf, you want a fresh younger one that looks like something you'd want to eat. Same with the chickweed. Make sure it's not where the dog is going or that it looks like fresh and so the plantain leaves. So I recommend a great book by Rosalie and Emily Han called Wild Remedies.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, I've heard of that.
John Gallagher:
And it organized in season. So we're talking about spring. You can just look at the handful of herbs, which many of that we're talking about here are in there. And if you want a little bit more about wild crafting on HerbMentor, Tara, what do we have there that's connected to this book that's also made by Rosalie and Emily?
Tara Ruth:
Yes. We have a wonderful course called Wildcrafters Toolkit that is so helpful. A great companion for your wild crafting foraging journey that walks you through wild crafting principles, how to actually do it, some things to keep in mind about plant id, what tools you need, and then how to harvest all the different plant parts and process them.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. So those you can find on HerbMentor and it's a companion little mini course to the Wild Remedies book. I want to add one to this list. Can I?
Tara Ruth:
Please do so.
John Gallagher:
Nettles, sticky nettles.
Tara Ruth:
Oh yeah, that. What's nettles?
John Gallagher:
Well, at the time of recording this in late March, we have been harvesting a lot and there's been nettle soup brewing and Kimberly made Nettle Spanacopita recently, which we mentioned on the last podcast episode.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, it was with Maria Christodoulou.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And so that is one that you want to harvest earlier in the spring before it starts to flower. And we could go into it forever. But again, you have that book or on HerbMentor or even on Learning Herbs on the free blog, just type in nettle and you're going to get a lot of great recipes.
Tara Ruth:
So many great recipes. Yeah, there's nettle lasagna on the blog too, and I just really making nettle tea. I'm actually drinking a nettle and oat straw tea right now during this recording.
John Gallagher:
Nice. And I have some nettles most days.
Tara Ruth:
Look at us go.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, look at us go. So definitely stinging nettle. So when I think Tara like these spring herbs, most of the time we are just having them fresh, putting them in things and enjoying that moment. But it's a good opportunity as well after you're harvesting some of these to dry and preserve them for later use. So what would you do for that? Or which herbs might lend themselves to that? Well, nettles for sure.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. Such a good question. With each season we're given the opportunity to think about how to set ourselves up for success and the seasons to come. So in spring and summer and in the fall when we have these bounties of the herbs growing around us, we can set aside some of those and dry them to as a little present and gift to our future selves and our loved ones in the future as well. And there's so many different ways to approach drying herbs. One thing to keep in mind is that your climate will actually have a big impact on which method you want to use. So for example, if you live in a more humid environment, you might need to use a dehydrator or even your oven on a really low setting if you have a keep warm setting. I experienced this firsthand when I visited my grandpa on the East Coast.
I may have already said this story before, but I harvested a bunch of mugwort and I'm used to living in California, which is much more dry than Connecticut where my grandpa lives. And I was so flummoxed that when I hung these bundles of mugwort up to dry in this closet that they all molded over within a day. I was like, "What is happening?" So I had to get out a dehydrator and dry them that way instead. And that was because of the humidity in the air. Meanwhile, when I dry mugwort here in California, I hang them in bundles in my room and it dries within a few days. So that's one method of the hanging in bundles and small bundles, and then there's the dehydrator method.
You can also, if you have a space for it, you can make little drying racks for yourself and basically spread out the herbs and a single layer on these drying racks and let them air out. It's also well-advised if you're doing a durational drying experience like with drying racks or hang drying to try to dry your herbs somewhere where it's dark and the light won't get them, because that can help them just dry more evenly and not develop little brown spots or rot. So those are a few tips, but we also have a great guide to drying herbs on our blog that's free so you can check out how to dry herbs at your home and get more information about how to do that.
John Gallagher:
And it's why you don't want to just go out your first time and gather a whole bunch of stuff and bring it home and not know what you're going to do with it or how much you need. So it's a good thing to just try small amounts, play arounds. And then when you're a little more sure about what you're going to use these herbs. You just don't want to go out and harvest a bunch of stuff and then have it mold or sit out in a bucket outside because you didn't get to it. You can't get to it for a few days. So you want to take care and have respect for this medicine. Because this is medicine, this is your medicine that you're developing. And it's not just about the chemical constituents and the medicine, it's about the energy and the relationships that you have. And that's very healing in itself. So I think to me, herbalism is definitely a spiritual practice.
Tara Ruth:
Same. And I feel like being discerning and the amount you harvest is such a great a opportunity to pause and be really mindful just about your consumption in general. We are in this capitalistic over consumption society and I notice that can sometimes come up for me when I'm harvesting this kind of feeling of scarcity in my body of like, "Oh, I need to have a lot of this," but actually maybe I don't need that much. And just really getting honest with what I do need and then what my capacity is for processing those herbs and really honoring that harvest.
John Gallagher:
Right, right. Let's go to the part of using these herbs in my life, especially for these spring greens that Kimberly and I probably use more than anything other than drying nettles because one time a mentor of mine, I asked, how much should we eat or how much should we dry every time we go out and harvest? And she's always like, "When I go out, I eat half and dry half."
Tara Ruth:
I love that.
John Gallagher:
So then she's always drying some, because it's dried nettles you can always use in those infusions and save some money, for sure. Let's see. So I'm wondering about cooking using the herbs more right away. So what kinds of recipes will you make with a lot of your spring herbs that you go out in?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. When it comes to cooking with herbs, the world is your plant-based oyster. There are so many different ways to incorporate herbs into your cooking. And a few of my favorite ways are to make herb-infused vinegars and syrups and pestos and teas. I like to make all these different kinds of condiments or food meal accessories and then add them into my meals. So if I have a vinegar infused with dandelion and nettle for example, then that can be nice to add into a stir-fry or into a salad. Maybe that salad also happens to have dandelions and chickweed in it, but just there's all these different ways to layer in more herbs. Or the other day I made a tea with calendula and then I use that tea to braise some veggies that I was making. So that's another way to layer in more of the herbs. And then if you're wanting something sweet, you can make a syrup, maybe you're making an elderflower syrup
John Gallagher:
Violet flower.
Tara Ruth:
A violet flower syrup, how nice. All the violets are so beautiful right now. Swoon. Yeah. So then you can add that syrup maybe to a mocktail or a cocktail, or if you're cooking something that maybe needs a little sweetener in it, you could just add in that syrup. So there's all these different ways to bring in these herbs. And then of course you can have meals that are more herb centric, like a nettle spanakopita or nettle lasagna or a dandelion salad or a soup that has a lot of burdock in it.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. My advice with the dandelion is just sprinkle some of the leaves into your lettuce salad, especially to start with get used to the taste you don't want to make this whole salad can be very bitter. Then go, "Ooh, yeah." And that sometimes prevents people, they don't realize that you can just put some dandelion leaves in your salad.
Tara Ruth:
You can totally titrate it to your needs.
John Gallagher:
When starting out too, for me, vinegars using apple cider vinegar, like you mentioned were very, very key. To me that was a way to capture the minerals, especially with dandelion leaves, with nettles, with a lot of herbs that you can make vinegars with. And they were so usable too, because all you got to do is take that vinegar, mix it with some olive oil in a bottle, and boom, you've got this really tasty, healthy vitamin/multivitamin that you're eating with your salad along with those little dandelion leaves in there and maybe some violet flowers and some calendula petals. You see where I'm going with this?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah.Oh my gosh. And just food looks so beautiful with flower petals on it.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, you mentioned borage before. Borage flowers. Yeah, semi. Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
And smoothies are also a really nice other place to layer in herbs, whether it's a tea or a syrup or the herb itself adding in, or maybe you're adding in some warming spices too. We didn't even talk about spices and more culinary herbs. You might add some cinnamon into your smoothie, whatever it may be, or some ginger to just keep flaring in herbs
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And before you know, won't even notice you're doing this.
Tara Ruth:
It just becomes second nature.
John Gallagher:
And that's when you're a home herbalist, it doesn't take that long.
Tara Ruth:
It doesn't. It takes some excitement and curiosity and experimentation, and then of course, the access to the plants.
John Gallagher:
Curiosity and experimentation, exactly. Access, right. And I know a lot of people and we've interviewed people and I actually have some videos with some urban term members in Brooklyn and a lot of people in urban areas who also figure out where to harvest herbs and how to get herbs that are healthy and clean enough for them to use. And that's mentioned and featured in Wild Remedies and something is an important tenet to them, and especially Emily who lives in a city and accessibility.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, for sure. And I find too that the more I've gotten excited about plants and working with them, the more people I've met who are also plant people and they might be growing something that I'm not growing and there can be a real spirit of generosity and abundance with other plant folks. So it can be really a fun way to bond with people is to share what you have a bounty of and receive whatever bounty they have. It's so fun.
John Gallagher:
That's a great idea. You can form a community where you live. A lot of people would love to go out and harvest with somebody, whether they've harvested a bunch of times and know exactly where to go and how much you're going to get. Or it's a great way to learn by doing that with somebody. But that same community, you could make remedies and trade and you can garden together, help each other's gardens out. And I've seen that a lot over the years of people making local herbal communities and it's a great way to deepen friendships.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, I agree. So sweet plant-human matchmaking. Love it.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. So let's see, we're in spring and I know that I am someone who has had hay fever since he was eight or nine years old.
Tara Ruth:
Me too.
John Gallagher:
So obviously when you were in herb school, Tara was probably first on your mind. "How do I get relief?" So what have you done to help your hay fever with herbs?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, I started herb school in March years ago, and so that's a great time to be thinking about spring allergies as they arise, but with a little forethought too. It can be nice to start preparing our bodies earlier in the season, but if you're starting right now, that's great too. A few of my favorite plant allies for allergies have included nettle, which we already talked about, elderflower and reishi and then goldenrod. So I'll dive into all of those. But yeah.
John Gallagher:
Some of these I'm sensing you're working on an immune system level and others more of a symptomatic level, so that'd be interesting to hear your strategy here.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, exactly. So nettle is super anti-inflammatory and has potentially some antihistamine effects as well. Actually since I was a little kid, I've been taking encapsulated freeze-dried nettle. That's what my mom gave me, it was super helpful for my spring allergies. And yeah, I've heard that two of the best forms to take nettle in for allergies include that form of the freeze-dried, encapsulated nettle or a long steeped infusion of the nettle, which is easier access and make-
John Gallagher:
I still don't know how to freeze-dry nettles. We've talking about that for 20 years and I'm just like, I don't even know what to do.
Tara Ruth:
Totally. Yeah, I've only ever bought that.
John Gallagher:
What's freeze dry? Does it freeze it? Do I dry it? Do I do both at the same time?
Tara Ruth:
Great question. I have no idea. Yeah, so these long steeped nettle infusions are great. And then like you were saying, working on the immune level, reishi is really helpful for helping to modulate the immune system because allergies can result from an overactive immune system response. So Reishi can just really help chill out that over reactive response with its polysaccharide content. And Reishi also happens to be calming for the nervous system. So I really like taking reishi during the springtime.
Sometimes I can just get irritated if I'm having allergies too on an emotional level, just like I feel stuffy in my head and my eyes are burning and my nose is running and reishi can just calm me down too on that nervous system level while it helps tend to my immune system. And then there is goldenrod, which I mentioned, and goldenrod works on that more symptomatic level like you were saying. So goldenrod is anti-inflammatory and does have antihistamine properties, but it also is really helpful for sinus congestion on a more symptomatic level. So I love taking a goldenrod tea or a tincture when I have a lot of excess mucus in my sinuses.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Which it grows to these fields where I grew up in these weed so to say. But that's one where in my yard where we can hardly get to grow. We tried last year it came up, but you can tell it's not its place.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. And another interesting thing about Goldenrod is that a lot of people mix it up with ragweed and ragweed is more responsible for some people's hay fever. So people sometimes will have a sour response to thinking about goldenrod because they're like that's the one that causes my spring allergies. But actually goldenrod can be super helpful if you're not allergic to the Asteraceae or daisy family.
John Gallagher:
Right.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely.
Tara Ruth:
And then I also mentioned elderflower, which has this beneficial effects on the immune system as well overall and then can help with sinus congestion too. And we have this really nice elderflower popsicle recipe on the Learning Herbs blog for free as well, and it has a few other herbs in it too, and it's the herbal blend in those popsicles is made specifically for helping with spring allergies. And so that can be really nice if you have kids in your life too, are dealing with allergies and it's hard to get them excited about herbs, who doesn't want to have a popsicle?
John Gallagher:
Exactly. Exactly. And there are allergy homeopathic remedies that maybe use the herbs from your area and grow and those are really try those. But what we like to do here is just have you connect with the plant and try it out in real life and pick it and smell it and taste it and make the tea and try things because then it even connects you more to the plants that may be in the homeopathic. For me, being a plant person, you Tara, it makes it more interesting. I was seeing a naturopath here in town recently who gave me a tincture and it sounded good, but I'd never heard of this herb before and I was so resistant or not realistic, but reluctant to try it or taste it. I hadn't developed a connection to it or to anyone knew anything about it. I'm like, oh, okay, I'll buy this tincture.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, right.
John Gallagher:
I totally forgot what it was. I have to find it. I'm so bad. I am just like, but I don't know this plan.
Tara Ruth:
I know them.
John Gallagher:
It's an opportunity to learn. I know and I will.
Tara Ruth:
Learning herbs, yeah, totally. I think there's something too about with allergies, taking the herbs that are growing in the area where you're experiencing your allergies. I've just noticed that at least it seems like for me that I tend to have a more positive response with taking those local herbs with my spring allergies.
John Gallagher:
So where I live in the Northwest is mushroom country, and so it is easy to go and find if you want to get into harvesting something like reishi, but it's easy to grow and whatnot if you want to get into that. But for a lot of people that's a little inaccessible. My local farmer's market has a certainly cool guy who does all that work right here locally. He has a, it's called a trail, an area, trailhead, part of a park. It's a weird word, but it's duckabush. That sounds like what it sounds, duck-a-bush. If you Google Duckabush Mushrooms, you'll find them. And it's an older style website and whatnot. But it's this really cool dude who powders and does all the work and I'll get my stuff through him just because I like supporting that local herbalist that I know not everyone, because some of those can be pretty expensive if you're looking around because it's trendy. But I like to buy it in powdered in larger packages and then I use them in a smoothie that I make.
Tara Ruth:
Yum.
John Gallagher:
Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Delicious. I'm bookmarking that for later.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. We'll save that. We'll make that a cliffhanger. We'll talk about that next time.
Tara Ruth:
Can't wait. Yeah. The smoothie cliffhanger, perhaps the first smoothie cliffhanger to ever interest.
John Gallagher:
Oh, my favorite. Essentially, listen on our website, if you look at our little bios, my favorite post is called the Earthshake, and it's basically a basic smoothie recipe, but with nettles. And so it's a green smoothie, but it's got fruit and stuff, the kids love it. And it is something that I used to make for the kids when they were little because it was really fun to say, and it looked like one of those McDonald's shamrock shakes, but it was same time of year, but instead of the Shamrock shake, we're like, we've got Earthshakes, got earth shake. And they loved that when they were making Earthshakes with nettles. So you'll find that recipe, maybe an old video or something on our blog with Haley and I, but that was fun.
Tara Ruth:
Delicious. I'm going to look up the recipe. Nice.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Let's see. I feel like we're getting close to the end of our time here, but I'm wondering, speaking of end of time, even though it's spring now, we're recording this, the winter was just there. It's still in the air. There's still some lingering winter blues. So what kind of herbs, Tara, do you like to work with this in springtime for this winter blues?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. I sometimes notice during this seasonal transition that I can feel some, I don't know, some of the lingering sadness or winter blues from that season as I'm moving into spring. And herbs can be really supportive allies for us as we move into this more expansive season that's really oriented towards blooming and being seen and being out in the world. And a few of my favorite herbs to work with in that regard include calendula, tulsi, cleavers, and nettle. Sound familiar? Like I was saying in the beginning, calendula can be really uplifting. I mean, if all you have to do is look at a calendula flower, you get a sense that this is going to be an uplifting herb. It just feels like calendula almost is the essence of the sun. It's just so bright and beautiful. And so I love drinking a tea with calendula flowers in it to help gladden my heart and lift my spirits.
And then tulsi is an uplifting adaptogen, so it helps regulate the nervous system and also has this uplifting quality that can be so nice after a long winter. And then cleavers, like we were saying before, cleavers and chickweed and nettles. I think about all these really green herbs as just like if calendula is the essence of the sun, these herbs are kind of like the essence of spring green and making smoothies with them, making juices with them just feels so invigorating and it feels like I am just taking in the spring energy and getting my body ready to let go of any lingering lymphatic stagnation, digestive stagnation, and spring forward.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely.
Tara Ruth:
And these are all internal herbs that I like to work with. And then topically, I love to use a body butter or a balm with calendula. And then if I happen to have any of it left over after a summer harvest, it can be really nice to apply St John's-wort oil to my body as well. St John's-wort also just really captures that essence of the sun of peak summer. It's often harvested around the start of the summer season and it just brings an uplifting quality to the nervous system. And I like to work with it externally a lot because it has some contradictions or contraindications for internal usage, but with external usage you don't really have to worry about that as much. So it can be so nice to just bathe my body in a calendula infused oil or balm and just bring me into that uplifting, expansive summer and spring energy.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Don't forget baths too. You can harvest a whole bunch of flowers, dry the flower, put them in the bath. You can make the infusion in a big pot, and then just put it all in the bathtub. Or if you don't want the mess, just put it through a strainer.
Tara Ruth:
Yes.
John Gallagher:
But that makes me think now that's exactly what I'm doing. I have a lotion with calendula from our yard that I use that Kimberly makes every year that I use on my face every night. You got to hydrate. And also I have this rash happening on my arm and St John's-wort's doing the job, it's just doing beautifully.
Tara Ruth:
Really so helpful.
John Gallagher:
It just takes away the itch.
Tara Ruth:
Good.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. Really good stuff.
Tara Ruth:
Yay.
John Gallagher:
Oh my gosh. That's a lot we talked about here in the last hour. We went the whole hour. I thought this was going to be like a half hour.
Tara Ruth:
I know, me too. Don't get me started talking about even one herb. Who knows what'll happen?
John Gallagher:
The point is we like to make everyone... And something that we want to share is that seasonally thinking in seasons and taking it season by season, it's the best way to learn about herbs because you're just, what's out now? What can I play with? Right? But this springtime, we started it out with gardening and planting some things as a great way to go. But as it goes, season goes on, so much to do and taking a season by season is a great way to learn. So we're so happy you spent this hour with us.
Tara Ruth:
So happy. I mean, we're recording this the day after the first day of spring, so it feels so appropriate to just to be really diving into the season with all of you.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And I talked about HerbMentor, our membership site before, and if you're not an HerbMentor member yet, where can folks go, Tara, to get the listener secret discount?
Tara Ruth:
Oh, yeah. The super secret elite VIP discount is at Herbmentorradio.com. Yeah.
John Gallagher:
And while you're there, you can click the little button and subscribe in your podcast app if you haven't done that already. Oh, and rate and review.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Right? Let us know if you like us. We need external validation.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, we're super insecure. Please tell me you like me.
John Gallagher:
Welcome to the Insecure Herbalist podcast.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, absolutely. This has actually been a therapy session. Yeah.
John Gallagher:
It actually is. I feel much better after recording a podcast. It's medicine in itself. I don't know if it's the herbs or you or the topic, I have no idea.
Tara Ruth:
I'm an uplifting adaptogen. What can I say?
John Gallagher:
And I'm a sialogogue.
Tara Ruth:
That's what that sound was. Okay.
John Gallagher:
So everyone, thanks for listening.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, thank you. Oh, and before y'all go, stick around for a quick little herb note with me on one of my absolute favorite plants.
Welcome to Herb Notes, I’m Tara Ruth!
As one of the most popular herbal teas in the world, chamomile has managed to find a special place in many of our hearts — and our supermarkets!
Chamomile is a gentle herb that is most well known for soothing our nerves, but its gifts go far beyond nervous system support.
Let's dive into three benefits of chamomile flowers...
Chamomile for Digestive Support
With its mildly bitter, aromatic taste, chamomile can soothe a mild stomach ache and ease gas and bloating. The bitter quality of chamomile also helps increase digestive secretions in the digestive tract, which supports overall healthier digestion.
To enjoy the digestive benefits of chamomile, I tend to opt for either a simple cup of chamomile tea or chamomile tincture.
Chamomile for Skincare
Though chamomile is most well-known as an internally ingested tea, there are many external preparations of chamomile that can be prepared to support radiant skin health like a chamomile tea face wash and serum.
Chamomile has mild antimicrobial properties and anti-inflammatory properties that can help address a variety of mild skin conditions. I find chamomile particularly helpful for itchy, dry, or red skin issues like a mild sunburn, eczema, bug bites, or acne.
Chamomile for Calming the Nervous System
Chamomile is a mild sedative and nervine. These mild sedative properties allow chamomile to help support restful sleep. The nervine properties of chamomile can help reduce stress and promote a greater sense of calm and relaxation.
To enjoy the calming effects of chamomile, I like to gently massage my neck and shoulders with a chamomile-infused oil or drink chamomile tea.
Want to learn more about chamomile’s benefits? Visit Herb Notes.cards to grab a deck of our top 12 Herb Notes. You’ll learn about herbs like chamomile, cinnamon, yarrow, and more.
This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch ya next time!
John Gallagher:
What can it be? Bye, everybody. HerbMentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably well-crafted podcast written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher, sound Engineering by Zach Frank. Can you do us a quick favor? Look up HerbMentor Radio on your favorite podcast app like Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and rate and review us. We'd really appreciate it. Also, visit HerbMentorRadio.com to find out how you can be part of HerbMentor, which is a site you must see to believe. HerbMentor Radio is a production of learningherbs.com LLC. All rights reserved. And thank you very, very, very much for listening.
