John Gallagher:
We are in the peak of summer, and I am so tempted to just go, go, go.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, my God. Me too, John.
John Gallagher:
But I've been feeling myself feeling a little worn out.
Tara Ruth:
That happens to me almost every summer.
John Gallagher:
Well, luckily we have Jiling Lin here to chat with us about the five elements and ways you can support your body through not just this season, but every season.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, thank God. I mean, that's something I especially need this season as a very fiery person, which we'll get into later.
John Gallagher:
Well, in this conversation we're going to discover the five elements and their impact on your health.
Tara Ruth:
We're also going to learn how understanding the elements can deepen your knowledge of herbs.
John Gallagher:
Going to find out how the current season affects your wellbeing.
Tara Ruth:
And we're going to explore the specific point on your foot massage for grounding and balance. So nice.
John Gallagher:
Oh, that's a really good one. So should we just get to the interview?
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, let's do it. She's awesome. I'm so excited.
John Gallagher:
You are listening to HerbMentor Radio by LearningHerbs. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. Today we're chatting with Jiling Lin. Jiling is a licensed acupuncturist, herbalist, and artist. Her integrative medical practice in Ventura, California, and holistic workshops, retreats, and writings, empower thriving health and environmental stewardship in our bodies, communities, and world. For more info, you can visit jilinglin.com.
John Gallagher:
Welcome, Jiling. Thank you so much for joining us.
Jiling Lin:
I'm glad to be here.
John Gallagher:
We're listeners of your podcast, so it's great to have you on our podcast.
Jiling Lin:
What a small world the herbal and podcasting realm is.
Tara Ruth:
Now we're all in one big house, just in different rooms recording.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Well, and our interviewees overlap too, like the whole thing overlaps.
Tara Ruth:
Yes.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And Rosalie's next door and Mason's upstairs. And we can just kind of all... It's the herbal podcast studios.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, I love imagining Mason upstairs, if only.
Tara Ruth:
That sounds so fun.
Jiling Lin:
I know.
Tara Ruth:
Why don't we do that?
Jiling Lin:
The next conference.
Tara Ruth:
Yes, yes.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. So Jiling, I have a background in five element acupuncture, and I'd love for us to dive deep into how folks can approach herbalism through that lens of the five elements and how this can be simple, approachable, and helpful for folks. So to get started, can you give us an overview of the five elements and its guiding principles?
Jiling Lin:
Yes. The five elements of East Asian medicine are archetypal and physical manifestations for how the world within and without operates. So there's water, which gives birth to wood element, which gives birth to fire element, earth element, metal element, and then back around to water element again. And there's these interrelationships across the center of the circle, a system of checks and balances like weaving a basket that can carry all things between the elements.
And these represent the seasons within us, our emotions, our mental realms, our ways of being with and understanding the world, as well as our outer seasons of winter with water elements and springtime with wood elements, summertime with the fire elements, mid-summer, and also the transition... or late summer and the transitions between the seasons with the earth element and then descending down into autumn time with the metal element and around and around the circle we go again. It's a beautiful... I like to think of it as a map for how we might understand ourselves and the world that we are so blessed to inhabit.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm curious, just bringing in that five element lens and guiding principles, can you ground us in our current moment through this lens of the five elements and what element rules this season and how this info can be really helpful for us as we support our bodies throughout the summer season?
Jiling Lin:
Yes. We are chatting at the end of June, so entering into July shortly. So of course this information and understanding of the five elements of East Asian medicine depends on location. The medicine, as I understand it, originates from various parts of Asia. My ancestry lies in China and Taiwan or Taiwan. So with this understanding in Chinese culture right now, we have peaked already in summer because summer solstice is considered to be the peak of summer and the peak of the yang season.
Whereas here in the Western realms and here in California, it feels like summer is just starting to begin. It feels like it's just starting to warm up. I've changed from my cold winter wetsuit finally into my lighter summer wetsuit for surfing, and it's over 100 degrees in central California and the snow has melted from the mountains. So the world of Southern California that I get to inhabit right now has changed a lot. So here in however you think of it, early summer or late summer or mid-summer, this is all ruled by the fire element. But of course there's these different manifestations of fire elements, like there's these different manifestations and chapters for each of the elements. The beginning, the middle, the end, and the upward trajectory and the downward dips will vary with the season and with your location, and how you experience it, of course, in your own body depends on what kind of constitution or temperament you might lean more towards.
So with the fire season in the Huangdi Neijing, the Yellow Emperor's classic of internal medicine, it counsels us to follow the rhythms of the sun. And in the more yang seasons of springtime and summertime, the sun is up for longer during the day, the sun rises earlier and sets later. So for following the rhythms of the sun, then we too can rise a little bit earlier, sleep a little bit later and be awake and more active, so sleeping a little bit less during the fire season of summer season.
However, with all of these suggestions and considerations, also noting that with this yang upward, outward trajectory and desires of fire element, there's also this possibility of wildfire, of doing too much and running too hard and going too fast and trying to bloom all the flowers and do all the things. So with this inclination to sleep less and do more during the fire season, summer season, also having a respectful relationship with that. So for herbal considerations, we might consider nervines for helping to soothe the fire and to keep the fire, have this healthy, respectful relationship with fire so that the fire is nice and warm and lit but also contained, not wild and crazy.
John Gallagher:
So what I think folks might not understand, or maybe what they're beginning to understand now is that these elements, it's not something to do with something you might see in a horoscope. It's like something that people often think that, "Oh, I'm a fire this or a water this," and this is nature we're talking about. So when you're talking about where you are in your location, it's summer where you live, it's the season that's within you. And there's so many layers and factors, but it has to do with more of understanding different levels of nature and how they exist in us, right?
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. And there's also looking at the different chapters of our own lives too, like the different seasons of our own life. So I'm approaching 40 with a little bit of trepidation.
John Gallagher:
It's okay on the other side, Jiling, trust me.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, gosh. Thanks, John. So in approaching 40, looking along the circle of the five elements map, it is approaching... should be approaching earth element area 40. According also to the Huangdi Neijing, the Yellow Emperor's Classic, we're peaking in our lives, we're walking towards the edge of our fertile period, and our bodies are changing and shifting and preparing for this new chapter. So there's this shift from the heat and the radiance and the floral awakening into passionate exploration of fire and free expression grounding down into earth element.
So as I am navigating this shift within my body here in this fire season time in the world, how does that affect me? So there's these other... And then there's the small cycles too of the elements, like the cellular cycles, these tiny little so quick cycles and to the moment by moment cycles, there's all these cycles within cycles.
John Gallagher:
I guess now, so I'm a listener and I'm wondering about this. Is an element like fire something I have to find out that I am, or no matter what element I might lean towards, can I practice these things that are healthy for me in this fire season that we're in? I think there's a level that a practitioner like yourself might take with a patient, but then there's also the empowerment. That's how somebody can use information like this to understand herbs better and help their own healing.
Jiling Lin:
First of all, observation with noticing what's happening in the world. And then there's this internal observation of noticing what's happening inside. And I feel like the five elements are present in the world and within us, however, it is also a conceptual framework of understanding the world. So if the conceptual framework works for you and if it comes naturally, then run with it.
There's this classical understanding based on the classical texts that one can spend many lifetimes, can spend many lifetimes getting to know from that intellectual, historical level. But there's also this intuitive understanding and there's this felt sense understanding that, "Oh, it's hot. Maybe I'll put some tulsi into a glass jar and put it into the fridge for a cold infusion of tulsi. My skin feels kind of toasted from the sun. There was too much heat, too much fire. Maybe I'll take that rose hydrosol that I've got chilling in the fridge out and spritz it onto my face and then do something with calendula later." So there's these practical and also intuitive ways of observing, but we can definitely get intellectual with it too.
Tara Ruth:
This makes me think about, I feel like a lot of folks when they first start learning about the elements, there can be this question of, okay, for example, me, I tend to be more fiery, and a question I had when I was first learning about the elements was like, do I then try to add more fire? If fire is where I'm healthy, do I want to stoke that fire more or do I want to do more cooling balancing things? And I feel like you started to talk about that with balancing with the heat, but do you have anything else to kind of say on that topic of...?
John Gallagher:
So Tara is a great case study here, Jiling, because she is fire definitely. I don't know about you, but the moment I talked to her from within about 10 seconds I knew she was fire.
Jiling Lin:
She's pretty shiny, yeah.
John Gallagher:
Pretty fire. And she's in summer. What does she do? What do people...?
Tara Ruth:
What do I do?
John Gallagher:
How does this work? Explain.
Jiling Lin:
So what's happening in the world outside affects what's happening in the world inside. So if the world inside tends more towards the something that's happening in the world outside, in this case, if there's fire tendency towards a fiery nature internally, as well as this tendency towards fire in the summer season externally, then oh, dear, that is a lot of fire.
Tara Ruth:
Sure is.
Jiling Lin:
So when you first spoke about your own tendency towards fiery nature, my first thought was, baby let that shine. Yeah. So how can you express that radiance and rocket to its highest potential, and part of shining to one's highest potential, whatever the element is, understanding some of the pitfalls of that radiance and how to navigate the pitfalls knowing, oh, with this fiery nature, maybe I get bored easily, maybe I'll bounce around between partners or projects, maybe I have a tendency to travel too much and I really have a difficulty staying put in one place. Am I saying some things that resonate maybe?
Tara Ruth:
Maybe, who knows? Maybe all of it.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. So noticing these pitfalls. You can also play these cards to your advantage knowing that, oh, I have this internal tendency towards radiance and shiny things, and I shine, I love the things that shine, and so I can rock that. How can I really play that to its highest potential, whatever the element, but for right now... And but right now, fire outside, fire inside, in your case study example, then the inquiry is how can I find right relationship when the tendency right now is to pull me into a condition of excess?
Because in Chinese medicine, we're considering excess or deficiency. That's one of the diagnostic considerations. So if this type of situation is tending perhaps towards excess...
Tara Ruth:
Perhaps.
Jiling Lin:
... perhaps then how can we simmer down a little bit? How can we cool things down, find rest? Maybe scheduling rest into the week and/or into the day, ideally both, maybe considering drinking and eating cool things, cucumbers, roses, things that are actually cool, salads, vinegars, a little bit of that sour flavor, fresh things. How can one cool the mind? Maybe breath meditation if sitting still is difficult for a fiery human being, maybe walking meditation.
John Gallagher:
This is fun.
Jiling Lin:
This is fun.
Tara Ruth:
I feel so seen. I love it.
Jiling Lin:
Well, I've got a little bit of that going on too.
Tara Ruth:
I can imagine.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. With all of these considerations too, are you thinking about... I think about fire, my brain automatically thinks that water might be the opposite of that. So would I be thinking about, oh, cultivating more water, thinking about cucumbers...
John Gallagher:
Good question.
Tara Ruth:
... or watery food and yeah. Does that come into play when balancing the elements?
Jiling Lin:
Sure does. So if you're looking at a picture of the elements, and you can... If you Google Chinese medicine five elements cycle and go to images, you'll see an image of the circle, and the grandparent of fire element is water element. And by grandparent, I mean the element which helps to anchor and keep the other element in check. And so I spoke about the birthing cycle or the sheng cycle going around the outside of the circle, around the inside of the circle, that system of checks and balances is the shang ke or the... I like to call it the balancing sequence, but it's usually translated as the control cycle, which sounds a little bit dominating.
Tara Ruth:
Controlling.
Jiling Lin:
So the grandparents of fire is water. So there's this fire water access. The water elements, kidney and bladder are the meridians that are associated with water element. And the very first point on the kidney channel is right down at the bottom of the foot, Kidney-1 bubbling brook or bubbling spring.
Tara Ruth:
What a nice name.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, try having it needled.
Jiling Lin:
Some people love it, John. I don't.
Tara Ruth:
How about you, John? Do you love it?
John Gallagher:
I like the effect of it afterwards.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah, the effect is really nice. Well, you can get that effect without needles too. You could just bring your awareness down there, or with some people who really need help grounding, I might tell them, pick your favorite essential oil that feels grounding or steadying or calming for you and keep it with you. And depending on the essential oil, for most of them in diluted form, and when necessary, rubbing that onto the bottom of the foot, that point at the center of the bottom of the foot, that Yongquan point and experiencing and calling in, calling it in with intentionality.
Okay. I'm going to connect with this point on the bottom of the foot. I'm going to connect with the belly of the earth down below and the waters that are cycling down below with that cool calming water deep down below in the belly of the earth. And that's going to help me draw the fire back down because the tendency of water is to flow downwards, the tendency of fire is to rise upwards, and tah-tah-tah all over the place.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, man.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. And folks can look up the Kidney-1 point online and see where it is. And you can just massage that, right?
Jiling Lin:
Yes. Yeah, yeah you can massage it. Another technique I like to do is... I mean, I guess not everybody has access to tuning forks, but I use tuning forks in my clinical practice sometimes, everything depends on the individual. So if indicated, tuning fork to the bottom of the foot or something that resonates to the bottom of the foot is also a delicious sensation with the vibrations and the grounding sensation.
Tara Ruth:
All this talk of fire and water makes me think, John, aren't you a water element?
John Gallagher:
I am. So just like Tara and you here, she loves to laugh and is very... has that going on. I can be very, very deep and not as much, and my voice is getting gravelly, and that's water, the depth. And so yes, that's me. So as a water, tell me a little bit about myself, and then what a water can do...
Tara Ruth:
Help us.
John Gallagher:
... this time of year in fire.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, I love that we've got these two case studies. The interviewers get to ask for help.
Tara Ruth:
How convenient.
John Gallagher:
We've been waiting for you. We've been sitting on this podcast for years.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, this is so fun. Well, also it's fun because I know that John, you know these things, and so you're just playing. But I always love hearing other practitioner's perspectives too, so I know you're not just playing.
John Gallagher:
Well, I'm thinking of all of our listeners and helping them, asking some question might help them understand so they can maybe find these patterns in themselves and maybe be empowered to go down this path a little bit with some simple tips.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Well, I'll speak a little bit about my thoughts with someone who's more water element or a yin or type of element in this yang season. However, with the promise that I would like to hear what your take is on it is also as a watery being yourself.
So for someone who tends to be a bit more internal, how to navigate this more external season right now. So for the example with John being more of a water element type, the other more yin or internal type elements would be metal elements. And then earth elements can go in any direction. It could be more yin or more yang depending on how the individual expresses themselves, which I feel like I keep repeating that phrase, but really it depends.
So with this more yin person, this yang season can potentially be a little bit overwhelming. There can be a lot going on in the outside world. There's all these parties, there's all this heat, there's all this stimulation, and perhaps yin type person wants to read their books, wants to study, wants to be by themself. It's a little bit much to get called into the world repeatedly in this way during these more yang seasons of springtime and summertime.
So how to help that? I feel like nervines are one of my answers for everything. Nervines for helping a more fiery or woody type of person to ground and return to the body and return to the earth, but also nervines for helping a more yin person during a more yang season to feel comfortable in their bodies, to feel comfortable in the world. Maybe a little bit more activating of a nervine, like something that's a little bit more opening, maybe something a little bit more spicy or moving like your ginger and your cayenne to help in get the blood moving, take off a jacket, take off a layer, come into the world.
John Gallagher:
You are speaking my language here.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. How does that resonate, John?
John Gallagher:
Well, yeah, absolutely. We're like a water people who tend in the water side of things, we are... Well, waters are always searching for an anchor. We're always out of the open sea, looking for the thing that we can hold onto in this crazy world, and which causes us to be a little more careful. We have a little more fear in the world than other people, and we're a little more anxiety. And the positive side of those things are courage. The courage to be able to stand up or get up and do things, because it's like overcoming that anxiety, fear.
So in the winter time, which is our natural element, the time of year, yes, it's really, really hard to socialize or get out or just want to go inward and work on big deep projects like Tara, that's exactly what I just did all through the winter, redoing our whole website systems and stuff at LearningHerbs, it was a perfect time for me to do that. But when it's a time like this, when it's nicer around and people are out and they're outside and they're socializing more, this is the time of year that helps people like me because it feels like I want to, I want go out. It's like I'm kind of catching the little wave, so to speak, water language.
Tara Ruth:
Surf's up.
John Gallagher:
A little fire, surf's up to get out, and actually this is my time of year to... this is when I'm like, "All right, I want to go out. I want to hang out. Oh, what are we doing tonight? It's light out late, what are we doing? When's the next concert?" Whereas in winter, I'm just like, "I'm not going out."
Jiling Lin:
Which makes sense, yeah.
John Gallagher:
And it's harder to keep track of things in the summer too, because I don't even want to work. It's just kind of like, "Ah, I just want to go outside."
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. So it sounds like your watery self loves... has this nice relationship with this more yang season.
John Gallagher:
Yes.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. It makes you more playful and social.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. That's the medicine for me of this season.
Tara Ruth:
John, I am so enjoying learning from Jiling.
John Gallagher:
I know.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, my gosh. Just diving into the five elements, I feel like this is so inspiring, and I am in massage school right now.
John Gallagher:
Oh, yeah.
Tara Ruth:
And I recently took a five element acupressure class, and it was an incredible experience to get to deepen my relationship more with the elements. But what really helped me take that learning to the next level actually was our five phases class on HerbMentor.
John Gallagher:
Yes, I love that. I love those audios. And when I started acupuncture school maybe 23 years ago or something, I didn't know that it was going to change the way I look at everything. And it has been so helpful for understanding plants because you kind of find your own relationship with the plants depending on what season you're in, depending on where they're growing. There's so many things, and it's hard to teach this through a book or through... It's a lot of personal experience, but to have that personal experience, you need some guidance for sure.
So that's why Rosalie and I invited Larken Bunce is the founding co-director and on faculty at the Vermont Center of Integrative Herbalism to come to LearningHerbs and share her knowledge about the five phases, about the five elements, which calls five phases. And so it is there, if you're an HerbMentor member, it's a great place after this interview to go and you'll get deep into it, because there's like 10 audios or something and lots of activities and things where you can start to transform. You make a paradigm shift, if you will, to how you're looking at nature and herbs because it's a lifelong study.
There's no point A to B. And that's what we do on HerbMentor. It's not do these five things or 10 things and you're going to get a certificate. It's more just like for those who want to just make this part of their lifestyle and continue to be curious and ask questions in the world.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, it's such a beautiful way to get to deepen your relationship with the plants and all things. The more I learn about the elements, it's so fun to see like, oh, wow, I really see this fire dominance in this plant. I feel a kinship with this plant as someone who's a little more fiery or, wow, this plant feels more watery. How nice that this could help balance me. And also taking a class like this five phases really helps go beyond a kind of like this for that mentality with herbalism.
John Gallagher:
Exactly.
Tara Ruth:
Which can be great when you're first learning and you're like maybe doing first aid, but if you're working with more chronic things or just wanting to really deepen your understanding of the herbs, it can be so helpful to understand them from this energetic standpoint. Like, okay, I'm feeling pain in my body. Is this a pain that is a little more heating or is it a cold fueled pain? Then what kind of herb would I work with? Would I work with a more warming herb or a more cooling herb? So the world is your oyster with herbal energetics.
John Gallagher:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And for here on LearningHerbs and on HerbMentor, we focus a lot on those recipes, remedies, and lifestyle choices and activities that you can do to maintain your health more than anything. And that's what I really love this course for. And so HerbMentor is our membership site on LearningHerbs, and listeners here on HerbMentor Radio get a special discount by simply going to herbmentorradio.com. Just go there, and you can get yourself a pretty good deal. So I would-
Tara Ruth:
So easy.
John Gallagher:
It's so easy to do.
Tara Ruth:
This for that.
John Gallagher:
That's for that, I know. And also, since we got you here, listener, if you have a chance to rate and review us on your favorite podcast app, please do that too.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, my gosh, that would be so cool. I would love to read them.
John Gallagher:
Yes.
Tara Ruth:
Hype me up this summer.
John Gallagher:
Exactly. Please go fire, go, go, go. All right, let's get back to the show.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, totally.
John Gallagher:
I try to really pay attention to the medicine that each season has and go with that, right? So around all of the... That might be a good thing to talk about, going around the wheel of the different elements, we were at fire. So maybe now earth, when we go into late summer when earth or then to metal, what kinds of things can we look out for to go with, where things might feel more natural for us during those seasons?
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. I feel like I want to start from the top. I want to go...
Tara Ruth:
Yes.
John Gallagher:
Please.
Jiling Lin:
I usually start with water, and then I'll go around the circle from there because water element is the roots, and this is... there's that digging down deep and going within that you spoke to, John. And so I like to begin with water also because water is correlated with the north. And usually when going around the medicine wheel, I like to begin in the north.
And with water element and the winter time, the land, the plants, our bodies, takes a rest. Everything is covered in the more northern climates during good snow years by snow. And also up in the mountains, like locally in the Sierra Nevada, snow covers the land and the land rests. And we also take shelter and go within our homes and go within our mindscapes to rest and dream, to dream big dreams about what's coming next in the year ahead, and to also dream digestive dreams about what happened in the year and the years that came before. And so there's this relationship with our ancestry and with those who came before, and also our ancestry with those ancestors who will come after our time. There's this liminal space between death and birth, lies this great expansiveness of oceanic water, which is the water element here.
And then with springtime, with wood element, we have the first birds chirping before the sun rises, that dawn chorus sound when the world is still dark. That's early spring manifestation of the first light lighting up the sky and this hopeful, "Wow, my tree that looked dead all winter has a first bud that is pressing up. I can see it's starting to press up. Some change is coming," excitement with springtime, and the sun rises, babies are born, baby bunnies, baby birds, baby humans, baby projects, baby ideas, all kinds of babies popping up here in the east with the springtime of the wood elements, and it's luscious. This is the moving parts of our bodies and our ligaments and our joints and our ability to be dynamic and start new things.
And then with fire element we spoke about. But right now we are in fire elements, and that takes us down into the south and into the hottest part of the day and the hottest part of the year and the hottest part of our lives, so we're radiant. With fire elements, I oftentimes think of how roses bloom, gloriously reaching for the sun, oftentimes at this peak point of summer. And there's this glorious radiance of the petals and the pollinators and the blue sky, and this sun raining its rays down, and people are stripped mostly naked or completely naked depending on where you're at. And it's just the world is glorious. And that's fire element, peak of yang, the youngest of the yang seasons, and the youngest of the yang part of our lives before we make our way, after summer solstice towards the descent once more, the flower at its peak bloom.
Once the peak bloom is over, eventually the petals fall away revealing the ovary of the plant, which reveals the seeds, which creates the fruit, the seeds within the fruit, if it will fruit like that in the earth element season. So with earth element, we begin the descent again back towards the seasons, and with earth element... Earth is mama, the great Pachamama, mother earth that carries us all. We are earth, we come from earth, we return back to earth. Earth is everything. This is the physical, tangible nature of our body.
I wrote an article for Mountain Rose Journal called Fruiting Beauty, and when I think of earth, I think of this fruiting beauty, the glorious roses of summertime are falling down, and you've got these fat luscious rose hips now, and you've got these fat luscious avocados and pomegranates and other fruits that come in these later summer season, deliciousness and yum, yum, yum, yum.
So from earth element, we further descend down towards the autumnal seasons of our life. Oh, I forgot to mention with earth this is our adulthood, so adolescence with the fire element heading towards adulthood. Then with earth, we stand strong within our communities knowing who we are and how we are giving and receiving and beautifully enmeshed in and part of our communities.
So with the metal element now heading into autumn, towards the west, the fruit falls to the earth and the seeds scatter. So I imagine dandelion seeds getting scattered by the wind, the pappus, these little feather-like appendages on the seed, carrying the seeds where they need to go, and the seeds planting, and then they'll wait around for however long they need to wait around for the water elements time of their lives before that dreaming time, before the coming open again in springtime, but I'm getting ahead of myself, coming back to the metal element with the sun setting and the rainbows expanding across the sky with the setting sun colors.
This mirrors and reflects the setting sun seasons of our bodies and our lives, and this stepping from adulthood and working into elderhood and a season of more restfulness and looking at biological and non-biological grandchildren, our projects, our relatives, our communities, our more than human and human worlds in this autumnal seasons of our lives. And within the cycle of the year, autumn also offers this beautiful time of reflection of looking back and where have I come, what has been beautiful, what has been challenging, what do I want to keep, what do I need to change, why am I here? Asking these massive questions as we descend down, down, down, back down towards the beginning or what I think of as the beginning of the cycle, again with water element. So that's the five seasons map, the five seasons cycle. It's so poetic, and there's so much more.
John Gallagher:
It's a lifelong study of life, the five elements, and it's really endless what you can learn and observe in the world and these patterns, and something that people have been observing for thousands and thousands of years.
Tara Ruth:
Wow. With all of this in mind, I'm wondering how understanding the five elements can help us really deepen our understanding of the herbs. You mentioned a little bit before talking about ginger and tulsi, but yeah, could you share a little bit about how this approach shapes your understanding of working with plants?
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. I feel like my understanding of the five elements comes from study, from the classical texts, and also from practice with working with patients, and primarily though from an intuitive sense and a felt sense, which I feel like that intuitive felt sense is a compilation of everything else. They all dance together very intimately. So in understanding the five elements and how we can deepen our understanding of the herbs through this perspective, they offer, if you want to get into them, they offer a creative symbolic imagery and archetypes, which helps us be able to get a feeling of things without having to reference books.
So maybe first referencing books to know that, okay, I'm not going to hurt myself or anybody else, especially if working with something that you need to be a little bit more careful with or better to be careful. But then once that knowing is present, then the felt sense of, oh, ginger is a little bit fiery, cayenne is a little bit fiery, it carries that heat. Metal element has this relationship with the skin. And so mint and other diaphoretic or creating sweat herbs might have this relationship with metal element. So when I'm considering metal type things, I might consider these more pungent, releasing the exterior, as you say in Chinese medicine or diaphoretic herbs. So there's this intuitive, multidimensional, symbolic relationship with knowing the world and knowing our plant relatives.
John Gallagher:
A couple of plants pop to my mind when you just talk about metal and pungent, and I think of a classic example of being garlic, of being very metal because lungs and it's got that pungent taste and it has that white... it's more of a root that's in that fall season where the element, but then when we were talking about earth earlier, like peaches and nectarines came to mind, and they even have the color of earth, which is yellow, and they're sweet, which is the flavor. So there are all these plants that can help us understand the elements and what they might be used for, right?
Jiling Lin:
Yes, yeah, yeah. I love that you brought in the colors also and how things look and where they grow and how they grow.
John Gallagher:
Yeah. I mean, seaweed, salty, that's the water, right, comes from the water. It just amazes me the more I think, and you look, you discover new things every day around you, and you realize this way of looking, the lens of the world, like we started through to five elements is just makes sense the more you look around, right?
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Well, the relationship with the elements is ancient because our ancestors walked really closely with the earth. They lived on the land, and there's these different relationships with different elements in different places. So here in North America, there's this certain sense. I mean, even different cultures here in North America have different relationships with the elements and different specific elements are identified.
I also teach yoga, less now, but I still teach yoga. And in the yogic tradition, there's also five elements, but there's no wood elements and no metal elements like we have in Chinese medicine, which I feel like those two are typically the ones which are unique and a little bit odd to people about Chinese medicine. Like what, wood element, metal element? So with Ayurveda, there's air and space instead. So there's these different elemental relationships with different cultures, but this is old, old medicine.
John Gallagher:
That's what's fun to study, whether it's like with East Asian medicine and the five elements and energetic systems in that, and then in India with Ayurveda and all those energetic systems, it's like all these cultures around the world who came up with ancient cultures that came up with these incredibly complex healing systems based on observations of nature, and they work.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Yeah. I love getting to know this medicine and this relationship better because over time it just gets more and more rich and more and more fun. So part of my work is teaching and clinic and writing, and in these different ways of navigating my understandings and how to share them with others, I get to play. And these five elements offer really infinite possibilities to play. And as a kind of woody, fiery type of youngish person with a little bit of metal thrown in.
Tara Ruth:
Can't pin you down.
John Gallagher:
I'd say. I'd say.
Jiling Lin:
I have a lot of ideas, and most of them revolve around these five elements right now just because myriad possibilities. So much fun.
John Gallagher:
Yeah.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. You mentioned writing, and you recently wrote an article for the LearningHerbs blog on journaling for herbalists, and I'm wondering, can you talk a little bit about your journaling practice as an herbalist?
Jiling Lin:
Yes.
Tara Ruth:
Thank you.
John Gallagher:
Does it involve observations of nature in the elements?
Jiling Lin:
Oh, my gosh, yes. Well, it kind of involves everything because I write every single day, and I've been doing it since for as long as I can remember really. My mom first offered it to me as a possibility when I was a angsty child, so as soon as I could pick up a pen and write on paper, she shoved paper in front of me, and now I'm working on my first book.
Tara Ruth:
Congratulations.
Jiling Lin:
So the journaling... Thank you. So the journaling practice, it's this daily relationship. I like to wake up very, very early. There's that yang thing again. So waking up really early and when the world is still dark, so usually around here that's between 4:00 and 5:00, really early, and I sit outside with notebook and tea, and the beginning writing is stream of consciousness, whatever is arising in the moment, and sometimes the muse is groggy.
Usually the muse is very excited, especially right now I've got this book project I'm really stoked about, so my muse is jumping up and down, but if the muse is groggy, then I'll give myself a prompt or I'll just make a list, or I have these different techniques for giving the muse a carrot.
Tara Ruth:
Delicious.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, yes. So stream of consciousness. And then right now, even if it's a clinic day, regardless what kind of day it is, I'll write two pages at least. The goal is just two pages a day for the book project, and then various other projects. So with the journaling practice in the morning time, usually it's driven somewhat by the tea in that I've got this long-term relationship now with Camellia sinensis or the tea plants.
John Gallagher:
The tea.
Jiling Lin:
And that relationship is also playful in that there's these different preparations for Camellia sinensis, and my tastes changes through the seasons and it changes based on my needs. And most mornings, I'll mix something into my Camellia sinensis. Like this morning, I think it was goji and ju hua, chrysanthemum flowers, which...
Tara Ruth:
Beautiful.
Jiling Lin:
... the chrysanthemum flowers are cooling and nice for the skin, and there's this sense of ease, especially in these hotter times, and the goji is sweet and nourishing. The red color reflects the heat of the heart, but the sweetness has this relationship with the earth. So there's this grounding sweetness with goji. There's this cooling gentleness with the ju hua or the chrysanthemum.
And then I used oolong, which is a little bit fermented oolong tea for the Camellia sinensis, and that helps my mind and my spirit and my body to be settled, and is another way of seducing the muse and letting the muse know that, "Hey, I'm back. I'm here. I'm here in the spot where we always are when we're not traveling. I'm here and here's the thing that you like to drink. It gives you a little bit of pizzazz to help and wake you up, but there's also these herbs inside that feel right for this moment, and help me help us to be steady for this writing practice that currently feels very much alive," and has been alive for most of my life now.
John Gallagher:
You are a poet, Jiling, and I think this world needs your book. I can't wait to tell everybody I know about it when it is written, but you mentioned earlier your mom, and I was wondering, and all that's happening now, did your interest in plants come from your parents or childhood, or was that something that developed further down the line in life for you?
Jiling Lin:
Thanks for catching that. Yeah, I'm a product of my parents for sure, and my parents are a product of their parents, and this relationship with plants and land and botanical medicine is old with my family in that they come from and I come from land-based traditions, and I'm first generation here in the US. My parents came here from Taiwan, and my sister and I grew up here, and my grandparents were first generation in Taiwan. They went from China to Taiwan just before the communist revolution went down.
So there's this history of migration, and even with the migration, the relationship with plants has continued. So some of the old foods and old traditions from China were mostly from Fujian province, these old foods and traditions relating to plants and other cultural traditions from Taiwan being a Han people from China who have landed in Taiwan. And then the things that my parents came here to US with, like making dumplings and growing basil and working with lemongrass and cilantro and drinking Camellia sinensis tea and cooking most things with ginger, especially as vegan people, and tending towards coldness in our bodies because of the lack of that bloody flesh creating heat.
So adding ginger to everything, drinking goji tea. My mom would shove goji tea in front of me to, she said, help with my eyes because I like to read so much, and I would read in the dark as a kid, and so, well, I don't know how much that was helpful because I have these big glasses on right now, but goji tea, rubbing menthol oil onto our feet when we were sick, and rubbing menthol oil underneath our noses when we got onto the planes, and rubbing that same menthol oil onto bug bites. So there's these old traditions that I will be unraveling and playing with and talking about and writing about for your life coming from these old family traditions.
Tara Ruth:
It's so beautiful to hear about. Thank you for sharing, and it's just been so amazing to get to learn from you this past hour. And I'm curious, for folks who want to learn more from you and connect with your work, where can they find you? How can they learn more?
Jiling Lin:
All of my information is on my website, which is just my name Jiling Lin, so it's jilinglin.com/events for fresh events. I usually teach in-person stuff and online stuff. There's short workshops, I go to conferences, there's longer retreats. This year I'm taking a bit of a hiatus, like doing way less in the outward world...
Tara Ruth:
Well done.
Jiling Lin:
... as I'm working on this book. Thank you. It's very odd, but yes, thank you.
Tara Ruth:
I'm impressed.
Jiling Lin:
And what else? There's the podcasts, so jilinglin.com/podcasts, but I'm usually with Mountain Rose Herbs on Herbal Radio every month. My Instagram is present, but I've currently stepped away from it, but it's still there. So instagram.com/linjiling, which is how you say my name in Chinese, surname first, first name later. So that's Lin Jiling, and I'm present, but not super active on Facebook, present, but starting to come alive not sure how in Substack. Let's be real.
And yeah, most of the things are on my website, and perhaps the best way to keep in touch is with my newsletter. So if you roll to the bottom of the page, you'll find the link to access how to join my newsletter, and then folks will hear about events and the upcoming book.
John Gallagher:
And that's what I recommend doing, everyone, just go right to jilinglin.com, and go to that bottom and put your email address in because that way you can know when Jiling's book comes out in the future. I mean, I'm going to let everybody know too, but you want to make sure you don't miss. You never know what Jiling will share with you before the book comes out, maybe some information. I'm promising things for you.
Jiling Lin:
Thanks, John. Yeah, every month-
John Gallagher:
We get all kinds of cool stuff.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Well, every month for... it's been a while now, I've been sending this newsletter, and it feels like the best way to keep in touch with folks, and it's really fun...
John Gallagher:
It is.
Jiling Lin:
... especially as I'm stepping back from social media and stepping back from a bunch of things and recalibrating my existence right now with this book baby.
John Gallagher:
I love that.
Tara Ruth:
Recalibrating my existence.
John Gallagher:
I feel like I'm recalibrating my existence too. I think that should be the name of a book, the book or upcoming book, Jiling is Recalibrating Your Existence by Jiling Lin.
Jiling Lin:
Oh, that sounds like a tall order.
Tara Ruth:
Should be easy.
John Gallagher:
We got this.
Tara Ruth:
Simple.
John Gallagher:
You got this. No problem.
Jiling Lin:
Recalibrating your existence.
John Gallagher:
I'm so excited about today. It's just been wonderful hearing you speak from your passion and sharing this information. I don't know, it just really struck me because I have a relationship with five elements, and you brought it forth in such a beautiful, poetic, and wonderful way. I really look forward to hearing what you have to write and what's coming next.
Jiling Lin:
Yeah. Well, it's really fun speaking with someone who's also a practitioner with a similar background. So what a delight. I did want to maybe share either what I wrote this morning or a few days ago, or two days ago.
John Gallagher:
Absolutely.
Jiling Lin:
So this morning's is longer though, and then the two days ago one is a little bit shorter. Do you have a preference?
Tara Ruth:
Whatever you have time for.
John Gallagher:
Yeah, whatever you have time for.
Tara Ruth:
I'm available for...
John Gallagher:
We're just hanging out.
Jiling Lin:
You guys are just sitting around sipping tea over there.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah.
John Gallagher:
Exactly.
Jiling Lin:
All right. So this morning's is unedited, and it's one of those instances where I really wanted to just get up and get on with my day. I woke up late this morning because I went to bed late last night because I was partying. So this morning I needed to get to work and keep my day going, and I'm like, "No, no, no, write your two pages, Jiling. Sit down and write your two pages. Just get it out. It'll be fast. It takes less than 10 minutes." So this is what came up.
Go somewhere warm, maybe it's a field or the top of a hill where you can feel the sun, lie down or otherwise, find yourself in a comfortable, relaxed posture. Settle in, soften your gaze so the world gentles into a milky everything nothingness.
You see everything and nothing all at once. Soften your breath so your body melts its honey essence into the earth. Feel that gravitational pull, how you melt like wax before a flame, warming, loosening, softening the holds of identity, civilization, the needs to know, be of importance, be anything linear or defined, gentle that, loosen that. Relax into ease, warm sunshine, pouring you, melting you, painting you in myriad, loose strokes across this land, across the landscape of your wildest imaginations and fantasies.
Let your mind wander now. Track it like a full-bellied coyote, curious but not hungry. Tracking, just for fun. Stay loose and curious. Maybe ask questions as you track. Where does this path lead? No expectations, no attachments, just a childlike, playful, loose-leaf tracking, coyote paws, scampering here and there across the dried floodplains of your mindscape. That desert, that flowers and blooms with each spitting possibility of rain, life, hydration, nourishment.
What calls you by name? What areas can you not wander away from? Saunter over, dig in the dirt a little nest to settle in, make a home, take up space, flower. Send your roots down. You are transforming from mammal to plant. Moving backwards along the food chain. Arms reaching up now for the sky. Take your time. Move when it's right. Head lifting as your tail finds the earth paws scrabbling for something somewhere between earth and sky, dancing into that spacious everything nothingness between and composed of all of its flowering, fire creature, luminescent, unfurling.
Here, your inner drum beat, your pumping heart, your ragged breath. What rhythms beg to be danced out. You mammal, you plant, you sun-baked, dirt-encrusted earthling. Dance it out. Now, paws, pit padding, roots and branches reaching and soaring. What does it take to pop out a flower? How does it feel to embody that bold blooming? Take up space, glow, feel the burn. Be the flame. You are dancing now or at least moving, slow, fast, whatever. It's your unique movement.
What animal, plant or mineral are you now? Morph, morph, morph. Dance the flame down into flickering coals, down into the earth to ash, soot, dust, dance from nothing to something to nothing again. That everything nothingness that called you out, calls you back in again. Notice your body. Notice your breath. Notice the ground. Come back. Come back. Welcome home.
John Gallagher:
Thank you.
Tara Ruth:
Oh, my God.
Jiling Lin:
You're welcome.
John Gallagher:
Thank you.
Tara Ruth:
Wow, that was so beautiful. And I couldn't help but think during it, "Wow, Jiling should really have a podcast. Her voice is so amazing. I wish she was writing a book too. Oh, wait, she has both of those."
John Gallagher:
She is.
Tara Ruth:
She's doing both of those things. And I'm just so grateful to you for joining us...
John Gallagher:
So grateful.
Tara Ruth:
... on HerbMentor Radio. And for folks who want to learn more, again, just going to say they can find your work at jilinglin.com, and just, thank you.
John Gallagher:
Thank you, Jiling. We really appreciate it.
Jiling Lin:
Thank you so much for having me here.
John Gallagher:
Oh, and everyone, stick around for an Herb Note. We'll have that next.
Tara Ruth:
Yes, Herb Note.
Welcome to Herb notes. I'm Tara Ruth, with its heart-shaped leaves and fragrant flowers, linden, also known as lime tree, is a majestic tree often found on city blocks. While most people value linden trees for their beauty and shade, herbalists know that linden flowers also offer many healing gifts. Let's dive into three key benefits of linden.
One, Linden for the nervous system and heart support. Linden has an affinity for supporting the nervous system. The soothing herbal ally can especially help address musculoskeletal tension and promote more restful sleep. As a calming hypotensive herb, linden has also traditionally been used to support the physical and emotional heart. And just to note, folks taking blood pressure medications or who are experiencing abnormal blood pressure levels should consult with an experienced practitioner before taking linden.
I like to drink iced linden tea during the summertime when I am particularly prone to more insomnia and tension due to more outdoor activities and travel.
Two, linden for digestion. Linden can help support healthy digestion. As an antispasmodic, linden can help address gas pain and discomfort. With its moistening and astringent properties, it can also help support indigestion and stagnant digestion by simultaneously toning lax tissues and soothing inflamed tissues in the digestive tract. For digestive support, I tend to drink a hot cup of linden tea with a pinch of cinnamon powder.
Three, linden for colds and flu. Linden can help support immune function, making it a wonderful herbal ally during a cold or a flu. Plus, linden can also help address several cold and flu symptoms like sore throat and congestion. When I have a cold, I like to put a spoonful of elderberry syrup in linden tea and sip on this throughout the duration of the sickness.
Want to learn more about the benefits of other common herbs? Visit herbnotes.cards to grab a deck of our top-twelve Herb Notes. You learn all about herbs like chamomile, elderberry, yarrow, and more. This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch you next time.
John Gallagher:
HerbMentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably well-crafted podcasts, written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher. Can you do us a quick favor? Look up HerbMentor Radio on your favorite podcast app like Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and rate and review us. We'd really appreciate it. Also, visit herbmentorradio.com to find out how you can be part of HerbMentor, which is a site you must see to believe. HerbMentor Radio is a production of learningherbs.com LLC, all rights reserved. And thank you very, very, very much for listening.