Tara Ruth:
Hi, John.
John Gallagher:
Hello, Tara.
Tara Ruth:
Have you ever had one of those moments where there's a before this thing happened, and then after everything changes in that split second?
John Gallagher:
Absolutely. And it's not like they happen every day.
Tara Ruth:
No, they certainly don't. And sometimes they can be really intense and sometimes they can just be these beautiful gifts that feel like they're sent from somewhere beyond. And I really felt that way when I first encountered Asia Suler's work.
John Gallagher:
Right.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. And Asia's who were getting to chat with today, and it was such a gift to get to be in conversation with her, and this conversation feels like a gateway to deepening your connection to the plants and yourself. And I have a feeling that for whoever gets to listen to this, they're going to have that before and after moment too.
John Gallagher:
I think so too, because I don't even really know what to say right now other than let's just get to the interview and meet Asia.
You are listening to Herb Mentor Radio by learningherbs.com. I'm John Gallagher.
Tara Ruth:
And I'm Tara Ruth. Today we're chatting with Asia Suler. Asia is a writer, teacher herbalist, earth intuitive, and guide who is here to help us all deepen our connection with the earth and understand our own unique medicine. She's the author of one of my favorite books, Mirrors in the Earth, and offers many popular online herbal courses like Intuitive Plant Medicine and Herbs for the Heartgate. You can learn more about her work at asiasuler.com.
John Gallagher:
Welcome Asia.
Asia Suler:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.
John Gallagher:
Oh, so wonderful to have you here.
Tara Ruth:
Yes, thank you. I am particularly excited and I'm playing it really cool right now, because Asia, you were one of the first herbalists when I decided I wanted to be an herbalist, and I was like, "How do I find more people doing this?" Went on Instagram, I found your handle, and I started following your work. And just viewing all of your writings and your videos really helped me fall in love with the herbal path even more. So it's so sweet and full circle now to be chatting with you.
Asia Suler:
Wow. Tara, that means a lot. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, yeah. It feels really special to be here with you and then to have read your book several times, and I love it so much. So I'm absolutely delighted and excited to get to chat with you about so many herbal things.
Asia, one of your teachings that most transformed how I relate to plants is on talking to plants. And I'm curious, especially for folks who may be a little new to herbalism, can you share about how plant communication works and how to really get started?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, the first thing I want to share is sometimes when people start to approach the idea of plant communication, it can feel really big, or overwhelming, or challenging, or esoteric. And the reality is that all of us are here because all of our ancestors knew how to communicate with plants. I think this is intrinsic actually to the human psyche, the human capability, that we all know how to do this. And just witnessing my two and a half year old daughter communicate with the trees, and the flowers, and the herbs, I see just how natural and innate it is. So, so much of what I guide people through in plant communication is really just a relearning.
So on that note, one of the first things that I tell people to do is very simple, but it's simply to introduce yourself to a plant. So when we are excited to meet somebody new in life, we'll introduce ourselves. We'll say our names, maybe where we're from, maybe what we're excited about, or where we currently live. And so this is a really beautiful way to start opening that channel of communication between yourself and a plant. And it works on several levels.
First of all, it's a form of honoring and respect to introduce yourself. That's a sign of respect. You're saying, "I'm courting this relationship, I'm interested in you." So there's that. You're actually opening up your awareness for the possibility of a dialogue to happen. But then there's this other level where it's also starting to help deprogram or reprogram your own brain to seeing plants as sentient beings, as beings that are able to communicate.
Most of us grew up in cultures where there was pretty strong hierarchical lines in terms of which creatures on this planet are sentient, and alive, and capable of communication, and which are not.
And so most of us have this programming that is running all the time in our subconscious brain that is telling us, "This is silly, this is not possible. I am going to look like a fool doing this." And so when you introduce yourself, you're actually working to reprogram your brain to say, "No, this is a sentient being, a being that has the ability to communicate with me, that there can be this open dialogue."
And so I will often tell people too that at first, you probably are going to feel silly when you sit down and introduce yourself. But that is actually a really good energy to embrace. And the reason for this is because silliness actually has a really sacred function in human culture. I watch my daughter and what she understands to be silly. It's like she takes what is handed to her as a norm and she flips it upside down. So she takes a shoe and she puts it on her head, and she thinks that is just the funniest thing.
John Gallagher:
It is.
Asia Suler:
It is. She knows that shoes go on your feet, so it's silly when she turns it on its head. So when you feel silly, sort of that feeling of embarrassment or shame that's wrapped up in the silliness, like, "I feel so silly doing this." Just know that what you're actually doing is you're rewriting these cultural norms that we've been handed. And that feeling of silliness is actually a good one to embrace because you're sort of purging from your own psyche, all these patternings and programmings around this hierarchy of importance or this hierarchy of sentience.
And so introduce yourself. That's the first step. And then to think along the lines of if you were to talk to a human, if you were to court a relationship with a human, what would you do? Well, you might bring them a gift, and so maybe you'll bring this plant a gift. It could be a song, it could be a bit of water, could be fertilizer if this is the plant growing in your garden, but something that's obviously meaningful to you and also biodegradable, and it is just carrying the energy of your intention.
And then to spend quality time. So we can't expect to deeply get to know anyone or anything if we're not spending quality time. So showing up, whether that's on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, but just showing up and having that dialogue of introducing oneself, and then sitting in silence to receive. I think that so often, we forget that we're human beings and not human doings, and we need that silence, because plants also communicate in a different way than we do. A lot of the natural world does. We're extremely, extremely verbal as a species, and so we're really focused on verbal communication often. And that's not really how the plants communicate.
And so a lot of it's going to be about your ability to then let go, sit in silence, and trust what it is you are receiving. I think our ancestors did a lot of trial and error of, is this coming from the plant or is this coming from my own psyche? A lot of questing and asking that question. And what I have found is that I can pretty clearly understand when a communication is actually coming from outside of me, especially being in the natural world, when there's a sense of neutrality, benevolence, patience.
Often if it comes in tinge with any kind of urgency or anxiety, then I know it's probably coming from me, which is okay, right? This is the human stamp. This is the human stamp. So I just, I'm like, "I forgive myself. That's fine. We'll try again another day." Because sometimes the channels are just a little too static. There's too much going on for me that day, but this is why it's a practice. We keep practicing these things, and the more and more you'll notice that there are these exchanges that end up happening that are deeply nourishing.
Tara Ruth:
I love that you're bringing in all these different love languages that I think about in human relationships. I'm like, "Oh yeah, bring the plant a gift, spend some quality time, asks of service." Yeah, it's great.
John Gallagher:
And let's say I want to learn about a plant or I want to make medicine. There's always this sort of, gosh, for lack of a better term, I noticed in myself early on, it's almost like this, "I got to do this. I got to go harvest this," sort of going out hunting or I'm going to.
And I kind of felt that eventually, I learned that there's a process. And when the process starts of that communication when going out, having that intention. It's like when you're walking in the woods, the mindset that you have and as you go in, because sometimes you might be like, "I really love to harvest these flowers or these berries or these roots." But then you get there and maybe it doesn't feel right, or maybe it's not a healthy enough stand with plant. So plant communication, which may sound strange to some people, is that part of the process?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that plant communication is essential to all of our wildcrafting, and our gathering, our harvesting, our medicine making. And in my experience, the kind of medicine that's made in that state, which you could call an intentional state, a ritual state, a ceremonial state, it's much more powerful.
And I actually thought about this a lot because I think about especially these days, the volume of herbs that we take. And then I think about before there were tinctures where people were drying herbs and using herbs in teas, and maybe powdering them and having these a little bit more concentrated ability to take herbs. But I think to myself, I'm like, I don't think people used to take as much herbs as we take now.
And I think some of that is just maybe more intact, soil and ecosystem. So their bodies were perhaps functioning better than ours are. But I think part of it truly is that people really, for the large span of the past, were gathering in a much more ceremonial, ritualistic, connected way.
And it's like a bit of magic I can't fully explain, but I just notice that when you are going out and asking permission or being in contact, making the medicine with intention, that medicine somehow is more potent, more powerful, more directed than it is when we're in that chaotic, let me just grab this and make something state, which I'm totally guilty of. I'm a human, so I've definitely done. But I think that it's actually part of the medicine to be able to tap into that state.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah, I love that. It makes me think about too what state you're in when you're ingesting the medicine. Not only harvesting and preparing it. I know that when I'm in an intentional state and in reverence of the plant I'm working with, and just dropping in with whatever intention I want when I take that plant into my body, it usually has a much more profound effect on me than if I'm just on the go taking five dropper folds of the tincture and running up the door.
John Gallagher:
Well, it's kind of like redefining what medicine is, right? You think that these chemical constituents, and then you find out that the medicine has so much to do with your connection, the plant and the experience that you're having with that plant, whether it's gathering, or preparing, or drawing, right, Asia?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That the medicine really is the whole experience. It can be so deeply healing just to be in that experience. And I think so much of this leads back to presence, which is one of the things I think we are lacking the most currently in the culture that we live in, is just this time, and space, and focus on presence. Just being present with, as you were saying Tara, taking the medicine or gathering the medicine.
And I think presence is the thing that heals, especially when we think about chronic anxiety, and stress, and trauma. Moving out of trauma states, moving trauma out of our bodies. Presence is the thing that heals us. So many of our modalities, especially more somatic modalities, are just about becoming present.
And it's just through these practices of becoming present that things start to dissolve and heal. And I just see so many of our health issues, our chronic health issues, they're coming from this. They're coming from just the overwhelm of our life that makes it really challenging for us to be present with our bodies, to be present with the moment, to be present with ourselves. So it's like making medicine and taking medicine from this place of presence will make the medicine so much more available.
Tara Ruth:
You saying that reminded me to take a deep breath, like, "Oh yeah, be present."
John Gallagher:
The theme in a lot of your work is a power of sensitivity. So I was wondering if you could talk about what that means to be a highly sensitive person and how sensitivity can help us connect with the plants, going with what we were just talking about.
Asia Suler:
Yeah. I love that you asked me this, because I love talking about sensitivity and highly sensitive people. So the term highly sensitive person was coined by Dr. Elaine Aron, and some other terms are sensory processing sensitivity. But basically, a highly sensitive person tends to have a nervous system that processes more sensory input than what you might say is a neurotypical way of being, and perceiving, and moving through the world. And I heard some statistic that it can be 60 times more sensory input in a room than what somebody else is experiencing.
So what that will mean is that lights can be too bright, music too loud, sensations of clothes too itchy for the person who's highly sensitive versus the person who's not is like, "All this is fine. I'm not sure what's bothering you in this moment." So that's sort of the challenge of being a highly sensitive person.
But the gifts is when you're very sensitive in this way, when you're very sensory sensitive, you pick up on really subtle things. So you might pick up on the subtle shift in the air right before a new weather pattern comes in. You might pick up on, for example, when you moved into a new ecosphere with your band or your family, that this plant looks a little bit like this plant. This plant maybe looks a lot like this plant, but there's something that's slightly different that makes me think we should meet this.
So evolutionary speaking, what we see is that 20% of the human population and 20% of over 100 other different species are highly sensitive. So this is an evolutionary tactic that is evolutionarily advantageous for us, to have 20% of the population just be extra sensory sensitive. Sensitives would've been the people probably who woke up in the middle of the night at the first subtle sound of maybe a paw stepping outside the cave.
So it's such a gift. It really is such a gift, because what I have seen over and over again is that sensitives also tend to be a bit extra sensory or what we might consider extra sensory in that they seem to be highly intuitive, really be able to pick up on subtle things like subtle plant communications, for example, or subtle shifts in the energy or the field. And they also tend to be very empathic, so really able to attune to other people. And that's such a skill to have, especially if you're working in a practitioner capacity with people with herbs.
But I just love working with people who are sensitive with plants, because A, it tends to really land for them. The plants tend to really help them get in their body, have their nervous system relax to the place where they can really inhabit their gifts. But also because I tend to see that they really do have innate gifts of working in these more subtle or alternative realms, and really flourish in those spaces. And I think that there's this level in which plants and sensitive people just have this love affair. They just can help one another in this way. And I think we live in a time where things are starting to change, but for a long time in our culture in the western world, sensitivity was seen as this handicap. And now it's like there's this big movement of reclaiming like, oh no, the problem isn't with people who have sensory sensitivities. The problem is this overwhelming environment that we live in, and just the lifestyle itself of attuning to the green world of working with plants, of working with your hands, of being outside. All of those things support a really regulated nervous system and support gaining our sensory inputs in a way where we really have the capacity to step into our gifts.
Tara Ruth:
This is reminding me when I first went to herbalism school. I'm being so relieved that it was a good thing, that I was so affected by all the different tinctures we would try, that it could be this gift that I would immediately feel the change of this new input. And it was just such a special shift for me as someone who's very, very sensitive and felt self-conscious about it for a while. So I really appreciate this framework that you're sharing too about a highly sensitive person.
John Gallagher:
And I want to add too, as somebody who I think I am a very sensitive person, and I think I was really cutting myself off. Because a lot of us are taught right in this culture, be sensitive, don't do this, or don't feel that, or whatever. But when I was in acupuncture school, it was like we were learning to use our body as a sensory tool.
And also with my work train people nature, awareness, and herbs over the years, I noticed that sometimes people may not feel they're as sensitive and they want those tools to be able to connect with plants. But the thing is, everyone, it's in all of us. I think I kind of relearned, but I did it.
And I think that that's kind of good news for people who there's, yes, there's people like, "Okay, I've got to take care of myself because I have a lot of sensitivity," but there's also people who can bring themselves some more sensitivity.
Asia Suler:
Yeah. And I want to add on to that and just say that I think in general, humans as a species are incredibly sensitive. We are very sensitive species. We have these really highly attuned, fascinating nervous systems and brains. And it's really enabled our success in a lot of ways, but it's also because we're so sensitive has made us really vulnerable to trauma. And that's such a defining, I think, piece of the human story and why we see ourselves getting into these cycles of deep trouble and disconnection. And it has to do with trauma and the way in which trauma perhaps because a culture has collapsed, or maybe you've lost access to the tools, that trauma then doesn't get released, and it then creates these ripples of problems down the line. And so just to affirm that we are all sensitive as human beings. So this is helpful on just so many levels.
Tara Ruth:
That makes me think about how it's been such an intense and trauma filled time, year on such a global scale. And it can feel really hard to stay grounded amidst this constant stream. And I'm wondering what practices or herbal allies you like to call on, especially as a highly sensitive person, to help you stay grounded in the present.
Asia Suler:
Yeah, yeah. It's been quite the time. On a really basic level, just getting outside every day. And it sounds so simplistic, but I'm constantly amazed. I'm like, "Oh yeah, no, that helped just 20 minutes," just being outside. And there's the practice. You all have probably heard of this before, but it's a sort of a five, four, three, two, one practice of bringing yourself into presence. So you look around and you gauge, okay, what are five things that I can see right now? And so you list five things that you can see. And then you're like, okay, what are four things that I can hear right now? And then you tune in, okay, what are maybe four things that I could possibly hear? And then what are three things I can smell? And you try to find those three things. What are two things I can feel? And I'm missing one. Which one am I missing?
Tara Ruth:
Taste?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, the one thing I can taste. Thank you. Normally we only have one real taste in our mouth at any moment. But just that five, four, three, two, one being outside in particular really, really helps me. One herb that I work with all the time and I think is really helpful for just the chronic state of overwhelm that we're in is milky oats, which I know a lot of people just adore. And I just love. It's one of these herbs, especially as a sensitive person, sometimes I can find herbs that have really strong actions can end up kind of dysregulating me if I'm taking them too high doses. And I never feel that way with milky oats. It's like I could just take milky oats till the cows come home, and I would still feel good. Just as this tonic and trophorestorative, this super nutritive herb for the nervous system and the endocrine system. I feel like it's like if I could suggest or prescribe any herb en masse for humanity, I would just pour milky oats over all of us, because I feel like the indications for milky oats of this burnt out, emotional state of deity and exhaustion, this instability in our emotions and this feeling of this shattered nerves. It's like we're all in that every single day.
And for me, we need more nourishing tonics in our life, especially when we're in really fragmented states and emotionally overwhelmed states. And in particular, I find that milky oats is really helpful for states of empathic burnout. So if you just, it's like you care deeply. All of us listening to this care deeply. And that caring deeply, when you just see things like fall apart again, and again, and again, and disaster again and again, loss, it is debilitating and it can just cause this falling apart.
And I have found milky oats tonically taken every day, it gives me this base level where I feel like that emotional empathic burnout gets this cool balm over it. And I'm like, "Okay, I can hold both at the same time. I can hold myself and the things that I really need in this moment to feel safe, grounded, connected to my own capacity, and also hold what's happening in the wider world."
And one thing that I like to do when I'm working with milky oats, especially if I'm already in a really activated or fragmented state, is to take the milky oats and then do this exercise where I breathe in. And on the out breath, I just name whatever it is I'm feeling. So it could be sadness, it could be overwhelm, it could be fear, it could be worry. And I just repeat the word over and over again in my mind as I'm breathing out.
And I will normally focus on a word for 30 seconds. And what I notice is that I'll breathe in and then I breathe out, and I focus on that word, and I say it over and over again. And then after around 30 seconds sometimes, it'll shift. So maybe it'll start with worry, and then I'll go into sadness, and then I'll go into anger and I'll be like, "Whoa, I had no idea this was this whole stack of feelings that I was moving through."
But what I find really fascinating is that when we can just acknowledge what we're feeling, so much of the meta stress that we're experiencing can disappear. Because without realizing it, we often have this stress about our stress, or sadness about our sadness. And it can be really hard to untangle and get back to this regulated state when we're working through these different layers. But when we take away the trifold of layers and we just get down to like, yes, I'm sad, and I'm acknowledging that, it's almost like this part of our body and our nervous system feels so seen. It's like we can actually then start to let it go. So that's just a little practice that I like to do when I'm taking that medicine that I find to be very helpful.
Tara Ruth:
I love that. I'm curious too, when you're ingesting the milky oats, how do you like to take them?
Asia Suler:
Yeah. So because of ease, I primarily take them in tincture form. But I have found that alcohol in large amounts can be kind of dysregulating for me. And so my favorite thing to do is to put it with some hot water, which evaporates off a good amount of the alcohol, or maybe even put it in my tea. So yeah, I find that that is helpful, especially if I'm taking higher doses. Sometimes I can be like, "Whoa, that was just a lot of alcohol hitting my [inaudible 00:27:40] at once," which can be fun in its own. But yeah, I find that the evaporating some of it off makes it just feel a little bit more gentle. And I know a lot of folks know this are listening, but capturing it fresh is really where you get the most benefits of the Milky Oats. Obviously there's oat straw, which is slightly different. And so, yeah, to me, having that preparation as a tincture means I'm really capturing all of the high medicine at the time exactly when they're milky.
Tara Ruth:
Wow.
John Gallagher:
You're specifically talking about nourishing and focusing on nourishing. And do you find that it's challenging when you're sharing your wisdom, you're teaching, or you have students to get in that mindset of looking at the nourishment aspects versus the I have to fix this aspects?
Asia Suler:
Oh yeah. I mean, we live in this heroic over culture. "We will go in and fix this." And especially when I was working one-on-one with clients, the part of you too that wants to be helpful is like, "Let's throw everything we have." But what I saw over and over again is so many of the people who specifically would come to see me, who were often also sensitive, were also empathic, were often in states of burnout. I just would recognize over time, they really need to be nourished. And I think that this is the thing that we miss en masse and that I have to remind myself of constantly because I definitely can get in that mode of, okay, I can't sleep, for example, so let me try to take all the herbs. And it still won't work.
John Gallagher:
Which in my book say sleep, sleep, there's these 10. Little of this, little of that.
Asia Suler:
Which still won't work, right? Because what I actually need is this downtime to nourish myself before I go to sleep. My psyche, my nervous system is like, "Absolutely not. We're not going to sleep right now until you get that nourishment and that downtime that you really need." And so I think it can feel really scary, and it's something that I saw years ago, this meme. So I wish I could remember who put it out there, but I don't remember. But basically the meme was like, busyness is a trauma response. And I was like, "Wow. Guilty." And I think that it's the same thing.
John Gallagher:
So true.
Asia Suler:
Right? It's the same thing with the urgency we feel around these heroic gestures with medicine that we're like, it's scary to be like, "Well, what's going to happen if I slow all the way down? Will I lose my momentum? Will things get worse, right?"
John Gallagher:
Will I stop making money. Will I lose my job? Will people stop coming into my website?
Asia Suler:
Will I have a healing crisis because I'm not doing all the things? And it's been such a mind warp for me over the years to be like, "Oh, it's the opposite." If I'm really struggling, I actually have to stop doing so much. I will simplify the herbs that I'm taking when I'm really struggling, because it can then just become another thing that it's causing stress, and overwhelm, and taxation on my system to be like, "I must keep up with all the things." And I'm like, oh, that energy itself is what's causing all these problems.
So stepping down. But what I'm speaking to is that it can feel like when you first do that, when you first maybe focus on nourishment, it can trigger the part of you that is like, "This is not safe. It's not safe for me to stop. It's not safe for me to just focus on nourishment." And with that breathing exercise I mentioned, to slow down and be with it, because we cannot force that feeling of not being safe, or fear, worry away, and it will just show up in other ways. So it's like all we can really do when that shows up is be like, "Hello, hi friend," to welcome that feeling in, instead of trying to push it away and be like, "What do you have to show me?"
Because often what comes up with that fear or that worry is it's attached to patternings and programs that we have from much early in our life, where maybe it really wasn't safe to slow down, or it really wasn't safe to just focus on nourishing. And then they come up, we see them, we're with them. And then the amazing thing is we actually start to release then some of that patterning and programming. And that's to me, where the healing really starts.
Tara Ruth:
Hearing you talk about overwhelm and simplifying is making me think about how few years ago, you had your daughter and how yeah, just being a new parent can bring so many more stimuli into your life and can bring so much overwhelm. And you write about the experience of motherhood as a highly sensitive person on Substack. And I'm wondering, how has motherhood shaped and changed your relationship to plants or herbal business as well?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, it is the most amazing and the most draining journey one can ever undertake.
Tara Ruth:
Pretty much.
Asia Suler:
That's what I tell people. It's all the things at once in this way. I love thinking about the classical definition of tantra where it's like tantra is this path of just seeing everything in your life. It's the things we'd label good or the things we'd label bad as the gateway to the divine. Just being present with it. And I'm like, in this way, having a child is the ultimate tantric path, because you're just brought every day the intensity of being alive, and you're like, "This is the gateway of the divine. I cannot meditate like I used to anymore. I don't have the same time to create medicine that I used to, but this is the gateway to the divine."
And so on that note too, it's like even though I have just so much less time in all kinds of ways to do things with my business, to make medicine, to garden, it's almost like the time that I do have has become distilled. It's like a shot of gin now. Whereas before it was just, I don't know, a really diluted cider or something. It's like now it's this straight shot of gin, of whoa, I can really receive so much in such a short period of time. And I didn't really think that was going to be the case.
And even things like being outside with my daughter, and we're in the garden, and there's just no way in this moment I'm going to be able to actually get anything done. I'll try to weed a little something. And then she's about to go, whatever it is, fall head first off the terrace, garden.
And so it forces me to slow down, and be so present, and be so slow. I'm showing her tulsi and I'm explaining, "Here's how we recognize tulsi. This is why tulsi looks different than the Genovese basil that we have over here. We eat one leaf at a time a day. This is our tonic.
And it's like, it's been amazing in this way because I feel like I've been exploring these deeper and deeper levels of these specific plants or specific moments with the living world, because having a child has just forced me to become super present. There's just no other option. It's either presence or things just are not working, which is an option that I sometimes take.
But so yeah, I think there's this piece. And then when it comes to the herbal business, my business, I think there's this piece where we don't realize how much of what can challenge us in creating a business is actually the meta dialogue that's going on for us in our brain. Of course, there are things that are hard like this took X amount of hours to make, or there are so many tech problems on this call, I'm stressed.
But really, the thing that's the most draining in my experience about having a business is these ongoing stories we have beneath the surface that we're constantly interacting with as we put ourselves into the world, of this isn't going to be good enough, or what are people going to think? Or, I have to work hard on this because this needs to be somewhere and it's not in that place yet. And all those different stories of not enoughness or too muchness.
And we can be aware of them, we can work with them. And then there's something about having a kid where it's almost like I don't have the space anymore to doubt what I'm doing. I don't have the time to doubt that. I'm just like, "I have to just do it." And I've heard this from a lot of other parents too, that it's all these sorts of traps of thinking that you got stuck in the past, these quagmires. You don't have the capacity or the time anymore to get stuck there. So it's like you get in this place where you're like, "Either I do it or I don't."
And I think because you learn so much about your capacity when you have a kid, because you hit the end of it again, and again, and again, you also then understand what you have the capacity for. And I, for years with my business, would take on way more than I really had the capacity for, and I would hit these stages of burnout again, and again, and again, and it would manifest in my life. Stability, chronic illness, chronic pain.
And since having a child, I am so much more aware of where those boundaries are and what my capacity is. So in this way, it's like this bizarre gift. It takes away all of your energy, and your time, and your capacity, but then it gifts you this deep understanding of yourself where all of a sudden, you can use your energy, and your time, and your capacity in a way you never had access to before or would've been just a lot more difficult to really reach and understand. It's like you have this distilled understanding of it. And from there somehow, then you actually are more effective, more creative, more productive, because you have this deep understanding of yourself.
John Gallagher:
I really, really wish I had the course you teach called Business is a Spiritual Journey about 25 years ago or 20 years ago when I started learning herbs. And then I had a five-year-old and a zero-year-old. Now they're 20 and 25. But all the stuff you just said, everyone that. This is amazing. I'm sitting here going, "Oh wow. Yeah." Somehow we do it. But you're right, it's a process of being that presence and just being in that moment, because it's so easy to burn yourself out. So any other tips for those who might have very busy lives or business owners in that area?
Asia Suler:
Yeah, I think just keeping tabs on what your body is telling you. And view the decision-making process as an experiment, right? Because everyone tells you in the business world, you have to say no more than you say yes, right? Your business is going to be built out of your nose more than it's built out of your yes. Which is really just saying having the boundaries to know where is the right place for your energy to go.
And to me, that's the secret sauce to success is just really being clear of, this is the place where my energy is most needed at this time, in this moment to move things ahead. And I think a lot of people will get stressed out about that and be like, "Well, how do I know? I need to figure out, or needs to be the best possible, I'm so busy, everything feels so important." And so I sort of invite people to step into the state of curiosity around it and be like, "Okay, watch this choice point come up, make the choice." And then on the other side, just reflect on it.
It's not about getting it right. It's about noticing, okay, I made that choice. You know what? I sat with my body. I was really asking myself, how do I feel around this choice? Does it feel expansive? Does it feel constrictive? And you're like, "Okay, it feels expansive. I'm going to go for it." And then you go for it, and then it's really draining or it took more than you thought. And that's okay. You can tune back in and be like, "Okay, what did I learn through that experience?" Because some of this is trusting our innate body's capacity and understanding. And some of this is just life experience.
And so really being intentional about understanding when the choice point comes up and knowing you have a choice. Because that's another thing too, is people are like, and I was in this place for a long time of being like, "I don't have a choice. I have to do this thing. If I don't do this thing, X is going to fall apart, or B is going to explode." And that's been another fascinating thing about coming a parent is you're like, oh no, there's always a choice. There's times where the things that I thought were so essential, I didn't have an extra minute that day to even do, and nothing exploded. Nothing fell apart.
And so experimenting in that way too of, like I talked about too, experimenting with your own edge of downregulation, of like, "Whoa, this feels super edgy to say no," and to not do this, or to decide to take on less today and to sit with the parts of you that are not okay with that, that are scared with that, scared by that, and to nourish them. And I think the more we work with those parts through the exercises I've mentioned so far, including the most basic one of somatic healing is just being like, "Where do I feel this in my body and what am I feeling?" And the more we work with those parts that come up when we say no, or when we decide to down-regulate or do less, the more we'll release so much of the stress, and anxiety, and tension that forces us to take on too much. And the more we free up this mental clarity and space of understanding, oh, this is the place where my energy is most effective at this moment in time.
Tara Ruth:
Asia, this is making me think about in Mirrors in the Earth where you talk about this concept of boundaries, and gardens, and relating the two to each other. Can you share more about this for our listeners? It was such a helpful framework for me.
Asia Suler:
I'm glad to hear that, because it's been really helpful for me as well. Yeah. So I think when you are naturally compassionate, sensitive, empathic, it can feel really hard to have boundaries that actually support your own flourishing. And in fact, it can feel like part of what is being asked of you is to not have those boundaries. And some of this does come back to the programming of the over culture we're in, and including the programming from our own family units and our own developmental experiences growing up, where our boundarylessness was actually something that was prized, or was valued, or was seen as one of our assets. Our ability to keep giving no matter what, to show up as an emotional sounding board, to be so kind and sweet all the time. Especially if you were socialized as a woman, that can be extra then, extra on top that this is value added.
So this way, it can feel like you drawing a boundary is selfish and you drawing a boundary is taking something away from other people, or from the world, or from these connections you care about.
So what's really been helpful for me is recognizing that boundary making is this essential endeavor. And we see this so clearly in the garden. You cannot have a garden without having a boundary. A garden without a boundary is no longer a garden. It reminds me of the original etymology of the word paradise is a walled garden or an enclosed garden. It's this enclosed space, is paradise.
So I saw this over and over again as I came into adulthood and just realized, wow, I struggle a lot with boundaries. It is really hard for me to say no, to draw that line in the sand, to not overgive. And the more I gardened, the more I saw that when I did not hold boundaries, everything fell apart. So if I wasn't weeding the perimeter, all the things that I wasn't trying to tend to grow would then just grow in the garden. Or if I wasn't on top of pruning or deadheading, it's like these plants would just grow leggy and long, and then die in July. And I'd be like, "Wait, what happened? I was really trying to grow basil and now it's all gone."
And so it was just such a firsthand lesson, and I think it's something that's been really helpful, especially for other sensitive hearted people out there to be like, yes, your life is a garden and you are the one that gets to decide what you want to cultivate in it. And in order for you to have this space really to work with the canvas of your life, you need to be willing to hold boundaries.
And what I say is your life, it is like that small part of the canvas of the earth that is being given to you and is saying create. The earth is saying create, in this body, in this lifetime.
And that's our responsibility in some ways, to show up for the people that we are in this lifetime, in the bodies that we're in to use our gifts, and our passions, and our creativity. And that is not possible when we don't have these boundaries that kind of keep the essentialness of who you are in and keep what you don't need out.
And so anytime I'm really struggling with boundaries, I remind myself of this metaphor of the garden, and I'm like, "I'm a gardener in my own life, and I'm allowed to hold a boundary because that is what enables the flourishing."
Tara Ruth:
This makes me think about my first garden I ever attended and how hard it was for me to pull up maybe a stray weed here, there. And it was such a good exercise in thanking that plant for being there, and letting it go, and letting what I wanted to grow in that space really flourish.
John Gallagher:
I'm just thinking about the gardens, and then the wildness, and then wildcrafting, and the plants that we garden, and then these environments that we make for some plants to grow. But others, we go out and harvest or we go deep in the forest. And it kind of makes me think of just going, looping it back to the whole communication and connection with all of the plants. And I'm going somewhere there, but I'm wondering if you can pick up my thought.
Asia Suler:
Yeah. I think following this, maybe expanding on the metaphor, following this metaphor, right? It's like when we have this delineated space of like, this is me, or this is my garden, or this is my place, it gives us that safety and security to be able to go out, to be able to be like, "I now can go out into the wilderness of the world and harvest inspiration or make connections here." So I think there's this way, and this may not have been where you're going, John.
But I think there's this way in which we sometimes think like if we hold boundaries, that we will be stuck then in this place, or there won't be these outside connections, or somehow you'll start to stagnate. But the exact opposite is true, and this is the sort of basic understanding in developmental psychology of secure attachment. When we're secure inside of ourselves, we have this ability to go out and have these fun, informative, expansive experiences like go wildcraft with plants, and have these amazing experiences of communication and connection, and then come back home and feel secure.
And I think so much of this process in general of developing a relationship with the plants and with the earth is about actually developing the kind of secure self understanding and secure attachment that a lot of us really lacked at a young age. And this is why I named my book Mirrors in the Earth, because the earth has this ability to reflect back to us our own selves, to show us who we are, to help remind us of our goodness, and our potential, and our gifts, and not in a way where we're projecting upon the earth or we're putting something onto a plant, personifying a plant in a way that it is not. But more so in this way of engaging in this primary way, where we recognize that the earth is the parent mirror that never forsakes us.
Most of us... All of us need healthy mirroring at a young age to see who we are, to understand our own emotions, and systems, and talents, all those things. And yet most of us didn't get the kind of mirroring that we really essentially needed. And yet, the earth is this parent mirror who's always there and who has always been there. We as humans evolved not only to see ourselves within the mirror of our caregivers or community, but in the mirror of the more than human world. This was the larger container and the larger caregiving structure that we've always been a part of.
And so when we as adults come back into connection with the living world, with the green world, with the plants, we start to see and understand ourselves, and develop these healthy secure attachments again, because we are reunited with this parent mirror of the earth who is here to help show us and remind us of who we are.
Tara Ruth:
Asia, this conversation has been such a balm for my soul, as has all of the things you create. Your book, your courses, the videos you create. My gosh, I'm so grateful. And I really want to encourage people to check out your book Mirrors in the Earth, to learn more about boundaries, to learn about a thing called a reishi tree, and so many great herbs to work with in these times. And then to check out your courses as well. You have a business course Business as a Spiritual Journey, and in all your work, you just weave this beautiful poetry and care, and I'm so excited for people to get to check out all of your offerings.
John Gallagher:
And then Intuitive Plant Medicine and other course. There's lots of single classes. You can even take a quiz right on our site called What Is Your Earth Healing Archetype, which is pretty cool. So I suggest everybody go check that out, for sure.
Tara Ruth:
Yeah. And what's your website again Asia?
Asia Suler:
So it's my name, asiasuler.com. Yeah, and that's the same handle that I use for Instagram, and Facebook, and YouTube. So you could find me in all of those places as well. And yeah, I wanted to mention too, on top of just all the gorgeous things you both just said that I'm working on actually creating some courses coming up just for sensitives, which is sort of the first time I've done that. I've sort of ad hoc speak a lot to sensitive people, but I'm excited to be focusing in this way. So anyways, if anyone who's listening is like, "That's me, I really resonate." Yeah, stay tuned because that's coming up really soon.
Tara Ruth:
My gosh, sign me up.
John Gallagher:
Sign me up, and you probably know when that's happening by going to asiasuler.com and getting on Asia's list for sure. So you'll know about everything or follow her and all those various places where you can follow Asia Suler.
Tara Ruth:
Thank you so much, Asia. I'm so grateful for your time.
Asia Suler:
Yeah, this has just been such a delight. Thank you so much for having me on the show and for introducing me to your wonderful audience. It just feels like such an honor.
John Gallagher:
Thank you. Thanks Asia. We'll see you. Hopefully we'll see you again soon. There's so many more questions that we had.
Tara Ruth:
I would love that.
John Gallagher:
Will stay tuned everyone for an Herb Note.
Tara Ruth:
Welcome to Herb Notes. I'm Tara Ruth. I saw mullein growing all around me for years before I knew its name, let alone its many healing gifts. Now, when I see mullein growing by sidewalks and trailsides alike, I smile and say hello to this nourishing plant ally.
So let's dive into three benefits of mullein. One, mullein for dry cough. Mullein leaf tea can help soothe the persistent tickly dry, irritating cough that is unproductive. I reach for mullein during colds when I have a dry cough, and also during fire season when my lungs can get irritated from the smoke in the air. When preparing mullein tea, remember to strain it with a very fine strainer because the hairs on mullein leaves can be irritating if ingested. And just as these hairs can irritate us internally, they can also irritate our skin if we are processing a bunch of mullein leaf with our hands. So if you need to process lots of mullein leaf, it's best to wear gloves.
Two, mullein as a nutritive. Mullein is a nutrient dense plant that can not only strengthen the lungs over time, but can also benefit us with its high levels of calcium and magnesium.
For nutritive purposes, I like to prepare a strong tea with mullein leaf. When working with mullein, it's important to note that mullein can accumulate heavy metals from the soil. Just as its long roots can uptake beneficial minerals, these roots can also uptake heavy metals. That being said, mullein is generally regarded as safe, but it's essential to harvest mullein from healthy soil rather than say that stray mullein plant growing by one of the street signs in my neighborhood I saw yesterday.
Three mullein flower for earache. Mullein flowers can be infused in oil to create a remedy that can help address a mild earache. When I have an earache, I place a few drops of the slightly warmed mullein oil in my ear to soothe the pain. And just a note of caution here, remember that mullein oil should not be applied to the ear if the eardrum has been perforated. Want to learn more about the benefits of other common herbs? Visit herbnotes.cards to grab a deck of our top 12 herb notes. You'll learn all about herbs like chamomile, elderberry, and more. This has been Herb Notes with me, Tara Ruth. Catch you next time.
John Gallagher:
Herb Mentor Radio and Herb Notes are 100% sustainably wildcrafted podcasts, written, performed, and produced by Tara Ruth and me, John Gallagher. Can you do us a quick favor? Look up Herb Mentor Radio on your favorite podcast app like Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and rate and review us. We'd really appreciate it. Also, visit herbmentorradio.com to find out how you can be part of Herb Mentor, which is a site you must see to believe. Herb Mentor Radio is a production of learningherbs.com LLC, all rights reserved. Thank you very, very, very much for listening.